Here is what I have learned...

Parents Forum
61

<p>Babybird, I appreciate your concern and support of your friend. To try to understand why many people are upset with him, and to try to get him to understand what is wrong about what he posted - listen to how he put things to us, and put yourself in the shoes of the other girl (who I would think you might know as well).
He told us that he didn't think Dartmouth was a good fit for her (he might have implied that she was academically weak for Dart, I'm not so sure about that), and that he was considering writing a peer rec that said she didn't fit at Dartmouth, although she was a great person. How would you feel if you found out that the friend you trusted and selected because of his writing skills, decided that this school wasn't right for you, and it was his duty to point that out to the adcoms - and, oh, by the way, he's planning on applying to the same school?! Doesn't seem like such a great friend anymore, does it? A little arrogant and condescending perhaps?</p>

<p>Now having said that - that is exactly the way many people interpreted what he posted, because that is what he said. Is that what he meant, I don't know? I do know that if this many adults on a public forum interpret his writings in that way, there is a fairly good chance he will get himself into real trouble with his writings if he doesn't think through things before he publishes his opinions. ALso, as I stated earlier, I think he lets his thoughts and typing get ahead of his common sense - he is I presume only 17 after all.</p>

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<p>"It didn't surprise me one bit that in the high pressure world of competitive college admissions a student THOUGHT about improving his position by bringing down the competition."</p>

<p>Call me naive, but I can imagine that in this high pressure world, a very fleeting thought of bringing down a friend might cross someone's mind, and that the person would recoil in horror from thinking about backstabbing a friend.</p>

<p>It is very hard for me to imagine, though, what kind of person would have such a thought and have to post to anonymous strangers in order to figure out whether it would be appropriate to write a peer recommendation recommending that a "friend" be rejected for admission.</p>

<p>To me, and several other parents here, it's obvious that if one has reservations about what a friend wants to do, one doesn't agree to write a letter of recommendation for them.</p>

<p>I would imagine, babybird7, that you'd feel betrayed if you asked a teacher for a recommendation letter and learned later that the teacher told your college choice to reject you. In fact, I'd be the mortage that if your teacher had reservations, you'd prefer that your teacher tell you those reservations instead of telling the college under the guise of helping you.</p>

63

<p>babybird:</p>

<p>You live and learn. Sometimes, especially in cyberspace, one comes across totally differently from what one had intended.
On the issue of the rec, the best way to handle requests like that is to turn them down and ask the person to seek out someone else who can write more enthusiastically. GCs are in a more delicate position than peers. They have to be supportive of their students, but also maintain credibility with the adcoms so that when they next write a glowing rec for some other student, it is not taken with a huge grain of salt. But peers have an obligation to their friends and no need to worry about sabotaging the chances of future generations of applicants. But telling an adcom that one is concerned about whether the applicant would fit into the college is the kiss of death for that applicant. You don't want to be in the position of administering it.
So now Ilcapo and you know.</p>

64

<p>Hey guys, I promised I wouldn't return but I am just glad that the tide has shifted a little...and that maybe some of you are realizing that my intentions were never meant to hurt anyone. Regarding the assistance you all gave me: it was very difficult because if I followed it to a tee, I was told that "my personality" wouldn't shine through, but if I held my own every once and a while, I was told I was being disrespectful and unappreciative.</p>

<p>To the parents who have supported me, I am nothing but grateful. Any question that might have seemed to call in to question my character was simply a question, and having you available to help me answer them has made me a better person. Take for example the recommendation issue - what I realized only a few responses after I posed the question was that it was not my place to decide if she belonged at Dartmouth. Instead, I used the recommendation to reflect on what an incredible person she is, and just how much she could contribute to the environment at Dartmouth. I wrote the letter, and it was a beautiful one, and I will be proud if she is accepted and chooses to attend Dartmouth because I realize now that she * does * have a desire to attend. So when I asked it, it was simply a question, not a chance to peer inside the soul-less person some of you think I am.</p>

<p>I also guess I should have prefaced my initial post by saying that this was only to document that following the rules is not ALWAYS necessary. In many ways, I did follow the rules! I studied for my SATs, I took rigorous courses in subjects I didn't want to (AP Chemistry, for example), and I did my best to form a well rounded application. The 'rules' I broke are broken by many, I simply wanted posters to realize that these are not set in stone...so that if two weeks from now the mother of a junior in high school asks if her son, who hates physics, can take physiology, she will be able to see that it IS possible. And whomever made the statement that I was strong in the academic areas, you are right - I simply found it hard to move past the rank issue, because it stuck out so much to me. But I also can see positive attributes in my academic area, and I apologize if I misled people into believing I lacked the academics necessary for admissions to a top university.</p>

<p>I would like to close by saying this - when I posted this latest thread, I never expected the onslaught of such criticisms and attacks on my personality. And when I chose to defend myself in one posting, I even said, I don't want to use the sick card - but I think it kind of sheds light on the fact that sometimes you need to show compassion and ease up a bit. If you had a problem with me as a person, you could have either kept it to yourself or PMed me, I didn't think it was appropriate for someone to say they were glad I wasn't their son, because it simply makes me feel like a bad person - which I know I am not! Right now is a tumultuous time in my life, and to Robyrm, for example, I did not post this latest thread in an effort to 'come back for more', I simply thought I could provide some help - never expecting people to take what I wrote and attack my character. I apologize to anyone who has ever been offended by my posts, but keep in mind that it is not a true reflection of one's personality, as you only know me in the context of the college admissions process. </p>

<p>Everyone has been extremely helpful throughout this process and I thank each and every one of you, just as I did today when I walked from teacher to teacher with a Princeton Thank You card or a small gift in my school. My guidance counselor, a woman I love who has helped me along the way gave me a huge hug and told me this was the proudest moment of her career. My English teacher, an Ivy grad, told me he couldn't have been happier I made it into the school of my dreams. These are the people that know the real me, not the online version, and they are the people whose opinions I must value the most. So while it is hard to ignore the harsh statements some have made about my personality, it is only right for me to view them as opinions.</p>

<p>This thread has gone on too long, and has provided absolutely no benefit to anyone. It is people bickering, arguing, being rude, and attacking each other, and I don't think there is any point. I hope it can end on this note.</p>

<p>(and to those who were concerned, it's Hodgkin's Lymphoma, discovered after I had a pain in my chest bone/sternum area. i think things will turn out all right, as the doctor isn't even entirely sure because a biopsy is necessary, but lets just say that things can be seen in a different light when you put a greater value on human life.)</p>

<p>Happy Holidays to All...and Farewell my friends!</p>

65

<p>Ilcapo,
I am a cancer survivor. I was a little older than you when my cancer was diagnosed. It was the single most tumultuous time in my life because I was not given a favorable prognosis, because I had to go on living my life, because I had final exams (not kidding). I made some choices in the aftermath of the diagnosis that I have regretted, but which I understand were made by a person whose energy was elsewhere.</p>

<p>I hope that you have good news from the doctor and that, indeed, all goes well for you. </p>

<p>While I would never wish cancer in any form on anyone, I will say that surviving the disease not only gave me a "different outlook" it also taught me the very key life lesson to use my energy to try to control what is within my power to control-- and to just leave the rest alone. </p>

<p>It is time for you to leave all this and focus on your well being, truly.</p>

66

<p>Ilcapo, I want to say that your intentions of posting the first post on this thread, I am sure had NO ill will. I agree that you were trying to show that you got into an elite college and in some areas, you did not fit each "conventional word of wisdom". It is not unusual in each of those areas what happened with your case but I can see pointing it out. You can't take any of those things in isolation though. Also, you gave the impression that you got in even without the academics which CLEARLY is not the case. But anyway, I am sure your intentions were good and often they are. What gets folks in a tizzy, and I don't quite think you see it, and that's ok too, is a certain kind of attitude that comes across in posts. Just take how you referred to the college advisor person or the women in the admissions office or things like that. I am sure you are a fine young man and have lots going for you. I don't think you see how on occasion you come across. You're young and learning. </p>

<p>I also hope you get some answers to any health issues and that they are positive ones. That is stressful. </p>

<p>I think when you start a thread, as you often do, you need to be open to a variety of opinions as you put yourself out there and sorta are asking for opinions. For instance, on the peer rec, you asked. Yes, you took the advice you were given. But you also had trouble taking the "heat" of various viewpoints, some of which were not favorable to you. This is going to happen when you open yourself up to feedback. It is also just the internet. You are going to get many viewpoints and you will in college too. You can't just end the thread or stop the class discussion when the viewpoints differ from yours or even question you as some of these posts do. It may be difficult but so is life. </p>

<p>I see very few folks here attacking you. Rather, I see some who disagree with you or question your behaviors. Most have done so in a respectful fashion. Perhaps some spoke more harshly but I also think the reactions were NOT JUST due to this post but to a string of posts over time that have an attitude that some question. Afterall, they are adults and look at teen attitudes differently than a teen would. </p>

<p>NJres....as you posted, you have not been on the forums that long and I appreciate your sentiments. I do not think any parents here want ill will with this young man. Many are very happy for him that he achieved admission to his dream school and encouraged him. In fact, you likely are unaware of the GREAT GREAT amount of FREE help Ilcapo received on these forums, particularly the Parent Forum over a very long period of time. Of course everyone on here supports one another but this went beyond that. This young man came to the parents here with every SINGLE aspect of his college process in detail. He got a full college counseling process (not just a few questions answered) and then some...as he had a team of college counselors at his disposal...something that others pay thousands for. But you will notice that the majority of parents on here LIKE to help young people, some of whose parents might not be as informed or as involved, and do so without asking for anything in return. I think Ilcapo is aware of that and has been appreciative. He really asked for such specific help. Every essay of his was gone over with a fine tooth comb, as well as many essays he eliminated. He came to the parents about his college selections in detail. He came to the parents to get help with various concerns he had, one of which had to do with possibly not getting his diploma this late in the game when he had been absent from two classes too many times and lots of people tried to advise him (and he had difficulty with having to hear a variety of opinions, some not that favorable, as was the case on the Dartmouth peer rec too). So, he has gotten a ton of help and along with that help, sometimes he has had to hear opinions that he did not like or maybe even hurt to hear. But if you are going to ask for all that help, you have to be prepared to take the good with the bad. </p>

<p>You wrote: "Face it, if Ilcapo had posted his stats in a "chances" thread, somebody would have told him not to bother applying to Princeton! "</p>

<p>That is definitely not true. In fact, this young man has posted his stats and profile UMPTEEN times on that forum, this forum, other forums. Nobody told him not to apply to Princeton. Folks advised him to not count on it because NO student can count on it. Folks admitted that the class rank might lessen the chances but not count him out. He discussed presenting his resume, lots of stuff. Nobody put down his "stats". This boy's case is NOT one of a kid with low academics who "got in anyway" as he alluded to in this thread. It was NOT all about his recs, essays, and ECs. Those were good, yes. But he had the scores, grades, and a decent if not stellar rank, that could be explained by his unconventional high school path that included dual enrollment in college courses which I am sure looked good academically. I don't think anyone has questioned his academic stats. </p>

<p>I do not think that Ilcapo's post at the start of this thread is problematic in terms of content but it is, along with many other posts/threads, problematic for some adults in terms of a particular attitude that I do not wish to define and let's just say that apparently many who have observed lots of posts over time are trying to point out to this young man since he is young. I do not think his intentions are necessarily bad but he is not realizing how he SOMETIMES comes across. Frankly his most recent post on this thread is of a much more positive tone, and so perhaps he is just inconsistent and does not think first when he posts. But things like calling an adcom a curse word online or saying his counselor does nothing, or even thinking to write a negative peer rec, are behaviors that others might rightfully call into question since he DID ASK or DID start a discussion over. I think it is hard to take criticism but it goes with the territory when posing some open ended questions. </p>

<p>I think the parents posting here are not out to attack Ilcapo. I think this is proven by the fact that numerous parents here helped him a GREAT GREAT deal every step of the way, for free and out of the goodness of their hearts. If these same parents are questioning some of his less positive attitudes/traits, I think at least they are coming from a perspective of having helped him over a long period of time. It is not like they came out of the woodwork and had a feeding frenzy. That is just my take on it. </p>

<p>I truly wish Ilcapo well and think he has achieved a great deal with his admissions process. I suggest he continue to be gracious. I don't think he needs to prove anything. The outcome says it all. I do think he should think about how he comes across as it has been an issue in numerous threads, NOT just this one and hopefully t those at Princeton did not see or won't see this side that needs more growth. </p>

<p>Ilcapo, your admissions process is thankfully over. Rejoice and move forward. Enjoy the holiday and take care of your health and your mother. Give thanks to those who helped you along the way. You will find your way.</p>

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<p>Ive been refraining from commenting on this thread, but Soozie, you summed up the whole thing comprehensively.</p>

68

<p>It appears I noticed this thread kinda late, but I hope no one minds if I put in a few words of my own...</p>

<p>Ilcapo, I really can't believe your original post. Yeah, you "broke the rules" and got into Princeton. Congratulations. What about the 12000 people this year that played by the rules, that were told that if they sat up in their rooms until three in the morning every night, torturing themselves instead of enjoying their teenage years because they've been told that if they DO play by the rules, they will get into Princeton, or whatever other school that they want, who will ultimately get thrown away like dirty rags? You have belittled the thousands of people who each year sacrifice four of what should have been the most carefree years of their life for a system that cares nothing for them, that will toss the majority of them in the trash for no good reason and will pay no heed to their sacrifice, not by your "breaking of the rules," but by your of flaunting your victory. The college admissions process, especially within the pool of extremely qualified applicants that Princeton evaluated this year and evaluates every year, is all but random. Yes, your achievements and your "unorthodox" style were key to your acceptance. But, in this process, so was luck. And you have to understand that. Congratulations, you got into Princeton and I'm sure that you deserve it based on your accomplishments. But, show some sensitivity towards your peers in whose position, but for a twist of Fate, you may have ended up.</p>

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<p>Well, according to Coureur, Hodgkins is better than non-Hodgkins, so I'm glad the prognosis is good; I did not know about his illness. It doesn't change my mind about the fact that if he were my son, I would have reprimanded him. The thing to consider is, he's a 17-year old, so he does shoot off his mouth sometimes. So does my son and he's 18 and a college freshman.</p>

<p>Anyway, good luck to ilcapo in his future endeavors.</p>

70

<p>What a comlicated situation. It's really hard to have opinions without them sounding condescending or like judgements, I think. </p>

<p>It's definitely hard to read this as a reject (from Stanford), though. I hate better SATs, but I know that really doesn't mean anything. It's not so much luck as it is what exactly they're looking for, but with so many people failing it doesn't seem right to be making a post like this. Plenty of unorthadox unique people with stats BETTER than ilcapo probably got declined, too. It's not luck, but it's pretty close.</p>

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<p>Wow, this thread brings back ndbisme memories. I think the only thing we should take from Ilcapo's post is that there is no one way to get into a college/ivy. I do believe the GC comments were a tad insulting and unnecessary, like Xiggi said. Some of Ilcapo's comments on some of the myths were correct--I find it hard to believe you'd be denied admittance solely based on the school you attend or because you might polarize the adcoms because of some worthwhile passion/activity such as political involvement. However, I do believe the comments could have been posted in a better, less arrogant way.</p>

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<p>I think Icalpo will fit in well at Princeton. Good luck!</p>

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<p>why would you revive this thread? it makes no sense to me.</p>

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<p>Well, I just read it this aft. and wanted to wish him good luck.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo is so.....seventeen. </p>

<p>Part brilliant adult, part exasperating juvenile. His worst behavior (obscenities, slander, self-aggrandizement) remind us of the worst aspects of our own children's characters--grrrrr--or the worst aspects of our own character. Thus the (over)reactions.</p>

<p>On the the other hand, Ilcapo is nothing if not relentlessly honest. In return, he well deserved honest reactions. He is attempting to become a man and honest parent-mentor comments will accelerate that process, IMHO. It simply isn't socially acceptable to use obscenities to slander on a public forum. Lesson learned--let's hope. </p>

<p>If he encounters this many exacting mentors at Princeton, he'll be away with the greatest.</p>

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<p>i'm with njres and babybird on this one. i've known ilcapo ever since he first came on CC and i must say, i'm very much like him. although he could be a bit capricious at times, he's still a good person inside. </p>

<p>and i'm glad i'm not the only one who finds his posts entertaining.</p>

77

<p>can we stop resurrecting this thread to heap more angriness on ilcapo? geez, he's not even around anymore and people still can't help themselves.</p>

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<p>"Ilcapo is nothing if not relentlessly honest."</p>

<p>Interesting, to say the least!</p>

79

<p>By that, I meant that he expresses his (every) thought as truly as he sees it. Disinhibition is another way of looking at it.</p>

<p>I hope you do pursue a Fine Arts degree, Ilcapo (like you could avoid a thread devoted to you!). An art education will expose you to higher level, juried critiques. </p>

<p>Fun and terror for the disinhibited, let me tell you!</p>