Here is what I have learned...

Parents Forum
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<p>So today I had the fine opportunity of meeting with the "college liaison counselor" who was appointed a few years ago. Apparently, the position was designed to promote better placement among graduates of my high school, but in actuality, this woman does nothing.</p>

<p>So I used today to prove 'em wrong. Here are a few 'rules' of college admissions they said could not be broken and I proudly did (with success)</p>

<p>-You must take physics. </p>

<p>Not true, I never took physics...in fact I didn't even take a science senior year.</p>

<p>-You must take an Advanced Placement math course.</p>

<p>Teachers in the math department insisted that if I dropped AP Calculus, I was spelling out a death wish for any top school. Princeton accepted me without me even being enrolled in a math course (I am taking Statistical Methods in Political Science in Spring)</p>

<p>-Guidance counselors do all the talking.</p>

<p>When I told my guidance counselor that I called the admissions office to talk to my regional rep, she was flabbergasted. She actually GOT MAD that I "had the audacity" to call the office and thought I was undermining her role as a guidance counselor. This after she told me Princeton hates our school :) I think calling and speaking to my officer was one of the most significant contributions to my acceptance. I had complete control in explaining what I needed them to know, and answering any questions they might have had.</p>

<p>-You won't get in to any Ivy level school if you aren't in the top 10%</p>

<p>Ranked 50 of 400, accepted at Princeton. I believe I will be one of 45 or so students next year who were not in the top 10% of their class, and something tells me many of these were athletic recruits or URMs.</p>

<p>-As a white male from an upper class and overrepresented town, no Ivy will want you unless you have "cured cancer"</p>

<p>Another incredible misconception that it is impossible to go from a town like mine to an Ivy without being super human. And to most super human = academic achievements ONLY.</p>

<p>-Don't let your political affiliation come across on your application.</p>

<p>My guidance counselor told me she was embarassed to send in my resume, because it was choc full of liberal activism and she thought I would completely polarize the readers. My essay was about the RNC protests, my chief activity aside from my internship was the Kerry Campaign, I discussed in great length WTO boycott/protest, and used every opportunity to let my allegiance to the Democratic party shine through.</p>

<p>-Don't go over the word limit on the essays.</p>

<p>Of the 3 required essays at Princeton, the total word limit was 1,000. I used 1,900 plus an extra optional 600 word essay. Thus, I wrote about 1,500 words more than those who stayed within those bounds. Not that I am saying you have to go over, but if you have something important to say and cutting back will lessen the quality of the piece, I'd leave it alone.</p>

<p>-Sending extra recs 'annoys' the admissions committee</p>

<p>I sent 5 recommendations: guidance counselor, english teacher, art/art history teacher, congressman who i intern for, and principal.</p>

<p>-You have to use a STRICTLY academic teacher for the recs.</p>

<p>My college counselor was adamant that I could not use my art and art history teacher for a recommendation, even after I explained in depth that this was obviously an academic subject. I sent it out in spite of their truly bitter opposition, and I think that could have also tipped the scale in my favor. If you have an excellent relationship with a teacher, don't let the 'academic' wording throw you off - use it! And not as a supplement, but as a main recommendation, that way they can check the boxes.</p>

<p>-Don't waste your ED on Princeton, they "don't like" our school.</p>

<p>I think this is the one that really annoyed me. Princeton was my number one choice and everyone told me that I was "wasting" my early decision at a school that would never take me. The guidance office actually said to me, "we have had countless valedictorians, intel winners, Brown PLME acceptees who are continuously rejected from Princeton, and you are certainly not as qualified as them". Here is where the guidance department places too much emphasis on the academic aspect of an application. Essays, recommendations, and extracurriculars can obviously get the job done.</p>

<p>-Don't rely too much on CC</p>

<p>Here is what it all comes down to. The parents on college confidential single handedly helped me craft my application into a winning one, and every word of advice has been worth its weight in gold. From the essays to the extracurriculars to the recommendations - I might have seemed obsessive, but running things by you guys payed off! You are all my saviors, and I will be eternally grateful from now until the day I die a Princeton Tiger.</p>

<p>Three Cheers for Old Nassau!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Don't waste your ED on Princeton, they "don't like" our school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They must really really hate your school.... at the personal level.... to accept someone who is not even in the top 10% of the class!! They are really rubbing it in, aren't they?? :D Very interesting post. You are sure to give (false) hope to many! But, yes, it is refreshing to see that there is room for all types of applicants. Did you submit a portfolio of photographs with your app? You know one of the silly things you read all the time is that you have to fill a particular need they have at the moment, whether it is playing a particular instrument or being outstanding in some specialty. Maybe the school newspaper needed a photographer? :confused:</p>

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<p>Ilcapo- I'm just like you. I defied the entire system of college admissions:</p>

<p>-I never took AP History
-I never took AP or Honors Chemistry
-I never took and AP or Honors course until my senior year (thus, my unweighted and weighted GPA are the same: 3.8)
-I am not in the top 10% of my class (we don't rank, but it would be impossible for me to be in the top 10%)
-I didn't have very many ECs, and I didn't "pad" my resume
-I got a measley 1410 on my SATs
-I have practically no community service
-I only got one recommendation (Yes, one! No additional or optional ones)
-I had one leadership position, and it wasn't very impressive</p>

<p>However, I do believe that that one recommendation, along with my essays, is what got me in. I prove that you can not kill yourself in high school and stilll go to a great school.</p>

<p>** Accepted EA to Georgetown University **</p>

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<p>Ilcapo--good thing Princeton's regional rep didn't read your delightful earlier post:</p>

<p>*i hope my princeton admissions officer is a democrat.......</p>

<p>she sounded like a 40 year old upper middle class bitch when i talked to her.
hopefully she is one of the 43% of women who has had an abortion before the age of 45...then maybe she'll sympathize with my NARAL/Planned Parenthood loving extracurricular involvement.*</p>

<p>No wonder she fell for your brilliance and charm.....Here's hoping she doesn't start lurking on these boards over the Christmas break.</p>

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<p>snappyretort - anything i say on the princeton board is not to be taken seriously....do you honestly think i'd 'wish' that on anyone? no. in fact, i was posting that not to make a joke, but because people had been attacking my ec involvement as too liberal, i was poking fun at THAT, not the actual substance of the convo.</p>

<p>what i say on the princeton boards does not carry over here anyways :)</p>

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<p>What I am about to say might not be overly popular, but I'll take the risk. In the past I have refrained to comment on applications and admissions, except to give the complimentary congratulations. I'll make an exception for you, IlCapo. Interestingly enough, the words "exception" and "exceptional" are the first that come to mind when I review your history on CC from your first posts to your admission at Princeton. </p>

<p>Nobody will deny that you worked very, very hard tp gain your acceptance at Princeton. You are the one and only one who built your extensive protfolio of EC. You are the one who relentlessly pursued hundreds of essays' revisions. In the end, it all paid out for you. However, I doubt that there was ANYTHING to learn -or remember- from your experience. To this date, I believe that you really paid little attention to the CC posters who helped you, and I also believe that you know little about the application process. I believe that your attitude was wrong from day one, and that it still is. As a person of your age, I find your lack of respect for most everyone you enter in contact to be troublesome and irritating: everything is a battle and confrontational. Why did you have to go rub the "truth" in the face of that poor GC? I never give much credit to GC, but would it not have been better to write a small thank you note. Even if she did not contribute to your success, allow her to keep her pride. </p>

<p>Again it may have worked for you, but your opinion on breaking the rules of common sense are dead wrong. Case in point: your essays would have been BETTER if edited properly as it was recommended to you time after time. </p>

<p>Enjoy your victory, but pray it will not turn out to be a pyrrhic one.</p>

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<p>well hasn't this been a fun thread...</p>

<p>im gonna let it die before people yell at me.</p>

<p>i was just trying to give thanks to those who helped and help clear up some misconceptions!</p>

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<p>farewell forever friends, i am resigning from these boards and good luck in all your endeavors.</p>

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<p>But.. you're so close to 1,000 posts!</p>

<p>...and what does "pyrrhic" mean? Nice SAT vocab... LOL. :p</p>

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<p>Well said, Xiggi. </p>

<p>Ilcapo (farewell forever friends, i am resigning from these boards...)--</p>

<p>Really??? You threatened to "pack your bags" on December 15, but somehow, even though hardly anyone said the words out loud, you just knew that we wanted you to stay. </p>

<p>But soft...what light through yonder window breaks? Your cc button still glows yellow, and you're still posting on another thread. Don't toy with us like this--it's just too cruel. </p>

<p>(It's called sarcasm; get used to it.)</p>

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<p>lol snappyretort, calm down!!</p>

<p>i never said i was packing my bags on this thread. like i said, i separate the two :)</p>

<p>but yeah, i'm done - im gonna try and go out with a bit of grace (even though you think that this is impossible)</p>

<p>so here it is - thank you everyone, i apologize for offending anyone, i hope some can learn to be more understanding/kind, and finally - as i said before, i am eternally grateful for everything anyone has helped me with...and there is a ton of it.</p>

<p>its been swell...but don't yell when i come back to visit a few months down the line</p>

<p>and to anyone who is considering posting from here on, please don't. i'd like the thread to end on this note. thanks again.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo: I rarely post, and have never addressed a student poster (well, except you, once before), but I have to agree with Xiggi. Especially with respect to how little attention you paid to the parents who tried to guide you. In addition, you are one of (if not the) least attractive students posting on this board.</p>

<p>That you were accepted to Princeton says nothing about the process. Your attempt at generalizing from your particular case will do nothing to help other students navigate the application maze. Nor does it say much about Princeton, and its methodology.</p>

<p>I could go on, but to what end? You already know everything. I’m thankful you do not belong to me.</p>

<p>Allow me to re-answer your topic heading: “Here is what I have learned…”</p>

<p>Nothing.</p>

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<p>I've put in a request to lock the thread before this slides downhill....</p>

<p>if you didnt find the advice useful, then im sorry, but please dont take this as an opportunity to bash me as a person...im not sure if people forget that though we are 'online' it is possible to have feelings too - and i am incredibly hurt by the last few posts....not an understatement by any means, this is really very very hurtful to me and not something a young person needs in their life. especially right now (not to play the sick card) when my mother has lupus and the doctor thinks i have hodgkins...please just go away.</p>

<p>*************<strong><em>END OF THREAD</em></strong>*********************</p>

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<p>I think that many posters here are being unfairly mean (and sometimes cruel) to ilcapo. Ilcapo- you happen to be one of my favorite posters on the CC boards- you are refreshingly clever and you make me laugh. Please don't leave.</p>

<p>Everyone seriously needs to calm down. It's just CollegeConfidential.</p>

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<p>Well, I might be mean--but Xiggi? I don't think so. </p>

<p>Ilcapo--good luck with your health and your future endeavors.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo, I find your posts immensely entertaining! Buried in my good-natured ribbing was a serious qustion: Did you submit a portfolio of photographs with your app? I think I got that impression somehow from reading your essays.<br>
.
.
.
.
. thread still not locked?</p>

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<p>Snappy- I thought that your's was sarcastically funny, and I thought that Xiggi's was mean. But seriously, let's end this thread, for Ilcapo's sake.</p>

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<p>i find a lot of xiggi's posts to be very direct and blatent, and i don't agree with a fair amount of them. i just decide to keep to myself and not start a scene over a post. :)</p>

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<p>For now, I am not going to close this thread. Ilcapo has chosen to bring up a topic related to his experience and has chosen to open himself up to reponses to that. We do not close threads when you don't like the responses. We do take down any posts that do not adhere to the Terms of Service. For now, I do not observe any posts that did not follow those rules. I do remind folks to post approrpriately and not disrespectfully but it is ok to disagree with the poster's approach. </p>

<p>Ilcapo, let me remind you that anything you posted on the Princeton boards is not private and if someone wants to bring that up here, they are permitted to do so. I would advise you to realize that anyone can read these threads, including admissions officers, so think twice about what you say, particularly referring to those in that office with obscenities. You are choosing to post and are choosing to open yourself to responses. You may not like others' views of your situation or actions, but you do open yourself to other viewpoints. As long as other posts follow the rules, we do not close threads when the OP no longer wants the discussion to continue because it has not gone as he likes.</p>

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<p>Ilcapo, </p>

<p>A couple things...
Some of the points you made are ones that are general guidelines in admissions, not steadfast rules. So, yes, normally being in the top 10% is needed in admissions to selective colleges and the chances go down if you are not in that category. But it is not impossible. Yes, if a college has never taken anyone from your high school before, it might make it harder to get in, but not impossible. Yes, a white male from Long Island is a common demographic that is harder to compete with an American Indian from South Dakota, but not impossible. Yes, kids applying to elite colleges should take the hardest courses available at their schools but it is not impossible to get in if you have never taken AP Physics. Yes, you should not call your adcom over and over again but it is ok to call. Yes, you should try to stay in the ballpark of the word limit (think if everyone did not!) but kids have been admitted in the past who have gone over it. Yes, five recs are a lot but my own kids had four and so this is not so out of line. None of these are steadfast rules but merely recommendations or rules of thumb that are often true, but NOT always, as you can see. </p>

<p>Secondly, applicants are looked at holistically at all but huge state schools which are more numbers driven. Thus, sometimes when a candidate is "missing" some qualification (let's say in your case, a good class rank), other mitigating factors might arise that cancel out that "negative". For instance, you are a first generation applicant which is an attractive profile. They might be willing to take you and that balances out a less than stellar class rank. Or they see you have challenged yourself by taking numerous college classes and that may make them not weigh your class rank in the same way as a different candidate who did not. Your political affiliation matters not because they will only care that you got involved in a substantial capacity in an area in which you have a passion. </p>

<p>There were obviously things about you that Princeton really liked and congrats on this achievement, as it is not easy to get in there! At the same time, you got an incredible amount of very specific help here in preparing your application. Also, while you may have the goods on paper, there have been times when your attitude that comes across in many posts causes me to pause and hope that an adcom does not see those sides of you because often the attitude is not one that might be what they are looking for. This has come up when you discussed the Dartmouth rec, the not getting a diploma due to missing classes this year, and in several other situations. The quote above from the Princeton forum (which I rarely read) does not make you come across that well. Luckily, the adcoms did not read this stuff. </p>

<p>Susan</p>