Here's something to chew on...

Colleges & Universities A-Z Duke University
1

<p>By late April, I have to decide between the Naval Academy and Duke.</p>

<p>Now, I've thought long and hard, and every bone in my body is pulling me toward civilian life at Duke University. Deep in my bones I just feel like it's where I belong. But every time I think I'm finally 100% sure, I have to smack myself.</p>

<p>Here's my beef.</p>

<p>Unlike any of the Ivy league schools, or many other schools for that matter, Duke has created a sort of 'honors program' for 20 admitted students each year. This little clubbies are affectionately known as the "AB Duke Scholars" and they rub me the wrong way.</p>

<p>It's not the people. I can almost gaurantee the actual scholars are the nicest people you will every meet. I bet they are extraordinary in every respect.</p>

<p>But you know what? Crazy as it sounds, I like to think of myself as extraordinary as well.</p>

<p>Yet, in 20 years, only 1 Duke Rhodes scholar has been a non-AB vs. something like 20 who were. Nearly every Goldwater Scholar, Fulbright, Truman, and Gates-Cambridge scholar from Duke has also been an AB Duke Scholar.</p>

<p>Now, I have the Naval Academy. If I were to report, I'd be holding a nomination from the Senior Senator from the Largest State in the most competitive applicant pool to the Academy in the country. Yet, I would still be treated like dirt and have to earn my way.</p>

<p>I suppose my problem is this: I don't feel like I'm on equal ground with these AB Duke scholars, and I won't have a fair chance. I certainly won't have the automatic semester at Oxford, nor the faculty contacts, nor the special AB Duke scholar events to attend. And I will not attend a university that won't give me the tools I need to fulfill my entire potential.</p>

<p>I can't be the only one who's a little peeved about this. It's not jealousy, or "poor me". I could care about full tuition or a stupid title. But if I am at an actualy disadvantage to these scholars, I'm not going to attend Duke. I couldn't bear a retread of High School where I have to fight for every inch, and some others are guided through every hoop and obstacle, and invited for tea, and encouraged to apply for this, and for that, and become editor of every publication because of their status, and make the Honor Council because "we need to put our AB Duke scholars in the best position to succeed for the University."</p>

<p>I'd rather serve my country.</p>

2

<p>It seems like you'd have as hard of a time getting a major grad scholarhip fi you went to the Naval Academy as if you went to Duke, and you wouldn't be given a title at either, nor would you be shown the way. So they seem equal in those respects. But then you also have to consider finances (free compared to 40k), and if you'd rather be a civilian or in the military (I'm not sure if you're obligated or not). For everything that you're ****ed at Duke for, you woulnd't get it any easier at the Naval Academy, would you?</p>

3

<p>Ok... I think you misunderstand the scholarship. The reason AB scholars most frequently get these outside honors, like Rhodes scholarships, is not because Duke treats them better, it's because they're the most motivated and able people here to begin with, on the whole. If you are "extraordinary" as you say, it won't matter if you get to go to Oxford for the summer, you will also rise to the top. The AB scholarship is NOT an honors program; there is no special academic program for these scholars, they take the same classes that we do, stay in the same dorms, etc. If you're an AB scholar, there are some perks, of course, but I'll let an actual scholar respond to you about that. But as a non-scholar, I don't feel any less able to achieve anything here than a scholar does, and I know a couple scholars.
You say you're not jealous of the title or the full tuition, but in the end, that's all it is. In the end, it all comes down to your hard work, dedication, creativity, motivation, and all the other stuff that everyone needs to succeed.
As a student here, a non AB one, I really think that your fears are unfounded.</p>

4

<p>Can you still go to Oxford?</p>

<p>I thought that was an opportunity open to all students</p>

5

<p>I'm pretty sure everyone can go to England for study abroad</p>

6

<p>Anyone can go to Oxford, AB students can go for free during the summer though for a program there.</p>

7

<p>Oh, so Duke doesn't cover costs of normal study abroad? For some reason I thought they did. Anyways, I doubt they are automatically given preference if you work hard and achieve as much as them during college.</p>

8

<p>If you are on financial aid you have tons of opportunities to study abroad for free. Also, the career center Duke will PAY YOU (regardless of financial need) to do an interesting internship abroad. This is the same way at most of the top schools.</p>

<p>This is a mindnumbing thread. The only kid I know personally here who's a Goldwater scholar and a Rhodes finalist was not on any scholarship here. If you really are amazing do you really think Duke is going to be like "oh, well we don't want someone who's not an AB to get a really prestigious scholarship so we're not going to help you out with our exclusive resources"? That's about the dumbest thing I have heard. Duke is thrilled to have all the amazing people it can try to get a Rhodes scholarship given the extreme competition of the honor and if you are really Rhodes material there's no doubt in my mind Duke will do everything it can to help you achieve that. There are TONS of amazing kids here not on any scholarship who are going to great things and you don't hear them complaining about this. </p>

<p>Personally I think you need to take your ego down a few notches...</p>

9

<p>It's hard not to be convinced by statistics. But the what I meant in my original post what that the AB's take the most prestigious and best slots in Extracuriccular activities.</p>

<p>They also make special faculty contacts, and therefore have special opportunities to build relationships with people who will be writing recommendations, offering internships and mentoring, etc.</p>

<p>Duke has created an kind of overclass. And whether there is only a "small" advantage, I somehow doubt that to be true, when the editor of Vertices the engineering journal is always an AB, and the student that organizes Blackburn the literary festival is ALWAYS an AB, and etc, and etc, ad infinitum.</p>

<p>The chair of the Honor Committee senior year is ALWAYS an AB.</p>

<p>The head of the Judicial Council, an AB.</p>

<p>And it just keeps going...</p>

<p>How do 20 students snag the top spots in every activity, when many of the activities are based on objective judgements... They can't just be innately better than the rest of us.</p>

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<p>Also, Navy has sent more Rhodes than Duke has.</p>

<p>BTW, I suggest anyone who thinks I'm unfounded read the "Robertson vs. Stanford" thread...</p>

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<p>I don't think you know what you're talking about. I have friends who are AB scholars--they agree this is ridiculous. If you prove yourself to be as amazing as you obviously think you are then you will have outstanding opportunities. I am doing research with a faculty member next semester and I am definitely not on any scholarship here, and I am also really involved in several other extracurricular activities, well on my way to leadership positions. I don't know what you're pulling this out of but it seems like Duke isn't the right place for you if you are so paranoid about not being good enough...</p>

12

<p>can any current Duke student (ay or incollege or any other) confirm if what kritarch's talking about is true</p>

<p>"the editor of Vertices the engineering journal is always an AB,
and the student that organizes Blackburn the literary festival is ALWAYS an AB
The chair of the Honor Committee senior year is ALWAYS an AB.
The head of the Judicial Council, an AB."</p>

<p>i found that rather interesting... pppsss...</p>

<p>p.s : btw, what's AB and what's a selection procesS?</p>

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<p>kritarch: yeah, if you are so insecure about it, don't go to Duke. This thread is pretty ridiculous though. You can do anything you want here, AB scholar or not. Sorry if you can't be convinced of that.
As for studying abroad, yeah, if you're on financial aid, you can study abroad for a good price. I'm going overseas for two months this summer for only $450, thanks to the financial aid department here.</p>

<p>dreaming: since you're class of 2009, if you don't know about AB yet, you're not one and can never be one, so don't worry about it (sorry if that sounded harsh). But it's the Angier B. Duke scholarship, a highly competitive merit award.</p>

14

<p>lol, the kind of people who are replying are the ones who would explain away the abuse in a dysfunctional family's relationship.</p>

<p>These are times for draconian decisions, once they're made then we can all be happy little lambs together.</p>

<p>I'm speaking truth, and you're getting angry at that, and at the idea that this institution that you insist on defending would never favor some select few over the majority.</p>

<p>You know, we'd probably meet at Duke IRL and you'd think I was the nicest guy in the world, but right now is not the time for that. I want to play on a flat field, where I can honestly say greater work = greater opportunity. Can I do that at Duke? I have my doubts.</p>

<p>And the worst part is, I'm right to.</p>

15

<p>You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic.</p>

16

<p>YES YOU'RE RIGHT KRITARCH!!!!
AB scholars get all the great treatment and the rest of us get treated like trash! Everytime I apply for something, they say "No, this is reserved for an AB scholar. Go away you stupid child."</p>

<hr>

<p>Ok, no.
We're not getting angry. We go to Duke, you don't. Duke gives everyone equal opportunities to do what they want. But if you don't want to listen, just don't go to Duke, that's fine, your loss.</p>

17

<p>No he doesn't. If a school has an elite few, and limit it to twenty, and those few are chosen for certain roles, because of what they did when they were admitted, I can understand the frustration. Sometimes it is easier to pick "leaders" from a select few than to actually go into the rest of the student body. Yeah, even college faculty can get lazy. </p>

<p>And from some of the posts I have read here, the defense of the AB program borders on snobbery. If you aren't picked at admission, toooo bad for you is what is coming across.</p>

<p>As for the poster, he never said he wasn't good enough. He said that it seems that at Duke, many outstanding students will probably be overlooked because they are not the Select FewAB Scholars. At my Ds.grade school in 6th grade, they basically decided which 8 students out of 60 where going to do everything. It was as frustrating as you can imagine. No matter how good you were, how hard you tried, it made no difference. It was just easier for the teachers to keep picking from the same small pool. They actually said that. Its too hard to involve eveyone, so we don't. I would not do that again to my child. We were stuck, but now I advise anyone considering applying to our school to think about what we went through. It wasn't that I wanted my kid to do everything, I just wanted someone besides the chosen few to do something. And I do not exagerate. </p>

<p>Thank goodness we are leaving and off to high school. My D was chosen for a special scholarship program at a Catholic Prep High School. We chose a different school because we didn't want the same experience.</p>

<p>How many students at Duke and of that what percentage is the AB Scholars? And how many positions do those AB scholars hold in relations to the thousand at the school? So of the total number of postions available, what percentage are held by AB Scholars? And how does that compare to the percentage held by the rest of the student body? What is the scholarship based on? EC's? Test Scores? </p>

<p>Creating an upperclass based on something that happens at Admittance would show me what the schools priorities are. And how concerned they are to be inclusive of the rest of the students.</p>

18

<p>Yes, I know what you're talking about, but that's not what this is. This is not sequestering the smart kids and letting them take the good classes and letting the other wallow in whatever's left over. Also, this is a different atmosphere than grade school. Professors don't tell students what they should and should not do. The school does not pick leaders. Students who want to be leaders, do it. I don't find it at all strange that students that were motivated enough in high school to be able to achieve the status of AB scholar, which takes into account more than just test scores and grades, become leaders in college, but it doesn't mean that the actual scholar status did it for them!!</p>

<p>As for being "if you aren't picked at admission, too bad," well, yeah, that's because you have to be picked at admission, you can't get in later.</p>

19

<p>There are 25 students on the Honor Council Right? There are 80 TOTAL AB's at the school at any one time, 80 out of 6400 students. I dare anyone to guess how many of the 25 honor council students are AB's... It's disturbing to me. Extremely disturbing.</p>

20

<p>But the advantages over the four years, starting at admittance of having "connections" because of what you did in highschool is immeasurble. </p>

<p>No one here has answered the original posters questions. Is it true that AB scholars have disporportionally higher rate of positions than does the rest of the student body. If so, I am amazed that that is okay with everyone. Are you all saying that the AB scholars try harder than you do? Do better work? Have more on the ball? That the AB scholars are more deserving? All I see is defense of a system that appears to be skewed. </p>

<p>Was the OP wrong? No one has said that yet, they just defend the status quo.</p>

<p>PS_ Kritarch, after reading these posters here, I personally am getting a feel for the Duke students. It would give me pause.</p>