Hi, EXPELLED?

Parents Forum
101

<p>Bigtrees, (#100) …that is the whole point. His OWN application, as well as the GC report, DOES ask this question and it should be answered honestly. The colleges are asking it, just like they ask many things on the app. Leaving it blank is ill advised. Lying is ill advised. This goes for the student’s part of the app and the GC’s part of the app.</p>

<p>By the way, nobody ever said that the entire disciplinary record is sent to colleges. We have all been talking about the application for students and the school counselor report that asks about suspensions and expulsions.</p>

102

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<p>You are the only one going on and on about sending in discipline records. The subject at hand is how to answer the question “has this student been suspended or expelled and if so, why?” </p>

<p>A student does not have to apply to a school which asks this question. If he does, however, he must answer it and answer it truthfully. The GC must answer the question and answer it truthfully. What’s so hard to understand? When a student applies to a university, all manner of “private records” are required to be submitted. Grades are private. SAT scores are private. If the student wants to attend these universities, they must waive their right to privacy regarding their high school performance (and performance goes way beyond grades). The student then has the opportunity to explain any areas of concern, whether it be grades (he had cancer in 9th grade, which might explain his poor grades) or suspension/being expelled. Don’t want to disclose? No harm, no foul, just apply where they don’t care about expulsions.</p>

103

<p>Some colleges my son applied to this year wanted to see the secondary school report from all the high schools he attended, not just his current one. So just because a student has no disciplinary record at his current school, a college may not consider the application complete until it has information from all schools attended since 9th grade.</p>

<p>Guidance counselors have another option on the secondary school report. They can check the box that says, in effect “I can’t put anything in writing, but will tell you if you give me a call.” That may get around any qualms they may have about putting negative reports in writing.</p>

<p>Guidance counselors have a duty to all their students, both current and future. If they lie about a serious disciplinary issue and a college finds out, then any future applicants from that high school may very well be put at a disadvantage, as the college will discount anything in future applicants’ secondary school reports.</p>

104

<p>I’m afraid that the aspect of this that bothers me the most, is the OP’s attitude. I do not see any remorse in his posts, or any acknowledgement that he understands the school’s position. As a parent about to send my child off to college, I hope that the college he attends is in full possession of all pertinent information relating to their applicants. </p>

<p>I fully understand that teens sometimes make bad decisions and should not have to have to face permanent consequences. I am a high school teacher, and had a student who was suspended and out of school for a quarter, (placed in a special school for anger management) after two fights. I wrote a teacher recommendation for her, where I wrote about the dedication with which she came back and the hours of after school work she put in, making up missed work and tests, to finally earn a high A in my class. I did not mention why she was out of school; I just wrote about her motivation and maturity, and the sacrifices that she made. I am sure that the OP, if he changes his attitude, will have teachers willing to go to bat for him as I did for my student.</p>

105

<p>Completely agree with 102 and 103.</p>

106

<p>Has the OP even shown any ACTION of remose? Words mean squat. Actions speak louder than words. Have you done some own vounteering and community service our of remorse instead of getting lawyers and suing your school? </p>

<p>As my friends like to say b**** had it coming.</p>

107

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<p>Taken in context, I generally agree with your statement. But there are certain mistakes that teens can make which will have lifelong consequences. This is an inescapable fact of life, and one I’m trying to get across to my teens earlier rather than later. The OP’s mistake is surmountable (if he ever wraps his head around the concept of accountability), but other teen mistakes can and will have lifelong ramifications.</p>

108

<p>“And the kids who misbehaved, well, they can scratch doing anything useful with their life and should plan on being losers forever. No purpose in learning anything since they will probably work construction or clean hotel rooms for the rest of their life.”</p>

<p>That’s not what we’re saying. The majority of colleges accept virtually anyone who applies, and that includes students with disciplinary records. The colleges where the suspensions and expulsions count tend to be top colleges that have an overabundance of highly qualified, ethical students who are highly desirable applicants to virtually every college. The other colleges that would care deeply about these kind of things are colleges that stress ethics and character.</p>

109

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<p>If he can get a good counselor, he can probably do a pretty good Remorseful Essay by the time college applications roll around.</p>

110

<p>Gardna,
But he has to show more than remorse and taking responsibility. He has to demonstrate in the next 1 1/2 years, how he has done things to turn this around. He has to be able to speak to that, as well as have his GC and recs speak to that. It is not enough to be sorry. (not that I notice him being all that sorry or taking responsibility which is the first step).</p>

111

<p>As Soozie pointed out, you do NOT want to do your main essay on a disciplinary problem. You get to write about that in the Explanation of Suspension/Expulsion and that is plenty.</p>

112

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<p>That’s a very good point. Still, isn’t he a sophomore? He has time to mature; especially if he decides to dedicate junior and senior year to learning his lesson. He might think that it’s silly (the incident is, I mean), he can still understand why this is something serious that needs to be corrected. There’s no need for this to be the end of his advancement in education.</p>

113

<p>Of course this doesn’t need to be the end of his educational advancement! But when one makes a serious mistake, they need to overcome it and it is not automatic. It takes effort. He needs to take this situation and do things to make up for it and not dismiss it as “seven minutes of my life.” It is what you do afterward that can make a difference. As I said, the fact that this happened in tenth grade is helpful in his case as he has time to turn the situation around and prove himself before applying to college. It won’t erase this bad mark on his record but if he can really show some significant change for the better that shows what he learned from this mistake in judgement, it will mitigate the damage.</p>

<p>He needs to make amends to those affected by it. He could even start an awareness campaign for other youth on the dangers of the internet and what seems like a joke can come back to cause significant problems. He can speak at an assembly and teach others the lessons he learned the hard way. He can go on to achieve other positive things that demonstrate outstanding citizenry in his school and community. He could be an exemplary volunteer and give back. He can take on leadership in student government. Etc.</p>

114

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<p>But Soozie, if he wanted to hide the issue that led to his ‘appearance’ of dishonesty, he is clearly quite happy to be dishonest. So for you to package him as honest is a little dubious.</p>

115

<p>That’s what I’m saying, soo. He has time to turn around, so the fact that he seems glib (in a handful of posts on one Internet forum, no less) is less troublesome to me than it would be if this was two years in the future and he’s in the process of applying to college.</p>

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<p>You could argue that, if you make the right decision in the end, being tempted by villainy is less harmful. I don’t think anyone is asking for completely pure thoughts; just a sense of right and wrong and the strength and character to realize that, while wrong is tempting, you should do the right thing anyway.</p>

116

<p>sorgum, I don’t feel I packaged this student. I did not go along with not reporting a suspension from ninth grade even though he no longer attended that school (and it was a much more minor offense than the OP by far). I required him to disclose it and to explain it. The fact that he may have opted on his own to not do so…that’s true. But since I was advising him, I did not go along with that. I required him to answer yes and to give a statement. There is not much more than I can do. I cannot make a student moral. I can require him to answer the app question honestly and to make a statement. And when I catch other things that seem stretching the truth on app documents, I question students and have them revise until it is far more accurate.</p>

<p>I’ll put it this way…the student may be content to be dishonest but when I get to the bottom of the truth by digging (and I do dig…this information was not shared with me from the start)…I require honest information on the application. That doesn’t mean I can turn someone into an honest person, but I can insist on honest accurate applications.</p>

117

<p>With the resources available to this person, he may just get around the system and end up living with some of our kids and, frankly, that scares me because he seems like a troublemaker and a punk. You’re all wonderful people assuming that he is remorseful and won’t do anything like this again. I don’t see it. In fact, the case could be made that he really was a criminal – his actions (prank?) were intended to shock and terrify other people.</p>

118

<p>I think the OP’s offense is a serious one that makes the offenses of the students I am talking about pale in comparison. The OP’s offense even involved an FBI investigation. The judgement in doing a prank about anything of a terrorist nature or criminal nature is serious. It affects many people. Having extra paper with you in an exam room or purchasing alcohol are bad offenses but tend to mostly affect the person themselves. Not so with the OP’s offense.</p>

119

<p>In many ways the OP and his family have taken a molehill and made a mountain out of it. It has been mishandled from the start and it sounds like it continues to be mishandled going forward. Let me explain:</p>

<p>For purposes of this discussion, let’s assume that the OP has been a pillar of his school community (top grades - already mentioned IIRC, plenty of EC and leadership involvement, well liked by teachers and counselors alike). He has a brain-fart (typical of teen-aged boys) trying to look like a big-shot and in one hour makes himself suspended for the remainder of a term and expelled for another. Other than this, he is a model citizen.</p>

<p>Mistake 1 - Lawyering up. I understand asking for counsel to understand the process before you, but it sounds like OP and family took the approach of telling the lawyer to fight this thing to make it go away. Wasn’t going to work as the facts can’t go away and the environment we live in won’t let it be hidden. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, but if the lawyer is asked to fight it, he will do his client’s bidding. My guess is that the lawyer advised that it was futile, but advice was ignored. Should have just fessed up and thrown yourself on the mercy of whatever administrative panel was adjudicating the matter. It shows a sense of honor and a desire to return to good standing in the community.</p>

<p>Mistake 2 - Not returning to the original school after the suspension is completed. This is more of the “make it go away” mentality that will not work. The bell cannot be unrung. Returning to the school with a sense of humility shows a greater strength than a fresh beginning. Yes, there may be parents who don’t want their kids hanging around with the OP, but by and large his peers should be forgiving (they understand brain-farts). With the right attitude (again humility and a desire to be a positive contributor again) will go a long way with teachers and most importantly guidance counselors. These are the people who knew the OP as a good citizen before the incident and will see that he continues to be a good citizen. When recommendations come around and they have to disclose the “terrorist incident”, the GC will cite the incident, mention that it was an isolated incident and that he has come back to be every bit the model citizen he was before the incident. This strategy gives the OP the best chance of a school looking beyond an isolated incident with solid continuous observations of good character surrounding it by the same people. </p>

<p>Not returning leaves the college 3 different observers of character who don’t have enough time to build a large positive history. 3 schools can’t be good for the transcript either. </p>

<p>However, mistake #1 probably made mistake #2 a necessity as they burned the bridges.</p>

<p>Mistake 3 - Going onto this other prep school. Even if you get in, the more you run from an incident, the guiltier you will look to any college where you apply. Geez, the kid even had to leave town. This must have been horrible. Staying put at the local Catholic school is probably better than moving on. Staying says you found a new home and have embraced it, not used it to hide until you could hide even better by leaving after a brief stay.</p>

<p>Bottom line, the OP and his family haven’t figured out that your past is impossible to escape. It sounds from the initial request for ways to hide the incident that they haven’t dealt with it at all in a personal way. Accept the mistake you’ve made and accept that you will spend a lifetime explaining it. If you don’t live in fear of your past, you won’t haven anything to fear.</p>

120

<p>By the way, this student changed schools in the middle of a school year without moving. I think that will come up and have to be explained. He may have difficulty hiding this, and I do not advise hiding it. Once discovered, he’ll be worse off.</p>