High EFC, suck up and pay, or take merit money

College Search & Selection
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<p>Well sevmom, I grant you official priority on the comment. I noticed it too late to delete, sorry bout that.</p>

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<p>Well, celeste, your comment added a lot more depth so thanks for expanding on the issue!</p>

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<p>CALMOM: </p>

<p>“janesmith, I doubt that that Macalester will give enough need-based aid for this family - and a WL student would not be a candidate for an offer of merit aid.”</p>

<p>You’re right of course. I was thinking of it “if was my kid,” and we were always FP, so my mistake. (When are we getting the quote function back?)</p>

<p>One issue that was very important for my daughter was MF gender ratios. Maybe it doesn’t matter for OP’s d; she was happy with Barnard after all. But Goucher is about 66/33 FM whereas Rhodes is 59/41. </p>

<p>In another post, CALMOM, you were asking about the chances of advancement with a bachelor’s degree only. That’s all my son has, and it hasn’t been a hindrance at all. Maybe it matters in the Political cone, which is not where he is. </p>

<p>For initial hiring, you are ranked on the Register by three things, and three things only:</p>

<p>–Oral exam</p>

<p>–Veteran status, if any</p>

<p>–Critical needs language points, if any</p>

<p>Pickering Fellows also get some kind of priority.</p>

<p>Once you’re in training with your A100 class the only additional testing that’s done is for foreign language. This is where you can test for languages other than the one you’ve used as your CNL (if any). You get a double grade, e.g., 2/1, where the first number is for speaking and the second for reading. (The scale goes up to 5, where 5 is native fluency.) The other language test is for foreign language learning aptitude: it’s in a made up language, so no one can have an advantage. </p>

<p>When it comes to the bidding process for your first assignment, the listings are pretty basic:</p>

<p>–City</p>

<p>–Cone (In a small post the job may involve two cones, i.e., Pol/Econ. In a big place a job might be specialized, e.g. Public Diplomacy job might be something like AIO—asst information officer—or ACAO—asst cultural affairs officer). </p>

<p>–Languages required, with level. Some jobs will not require any foreign language—English-language speaking countries of course, but also some jobs in India, Iraq, etc. Some jobs will require one language. Some require two, perhaps at different levels of fluency. So for Georgia, you might have “Russian 3/2, Georgian 2/1.” </p>

<p>–Hardship and danger allowance. Posts may have an allowance for hardship, danger, or both. </p>

<p>–Date job begins. The Foreign Service builds in time for language training, so for a super difficult/obscure language the job may begin one year or more later. </p>

<p>So this is where it gets tricky: you can’t just pick a couple of jobs you’d like. Your career development officer will have you rank the entire bid list—about a third of the jobs you’re supposed to bid “high,” a third medium, and a third you really really don’t want. My son ended up bidding Mumbai “high” as a result; though the job required Gujarati there was enough time for him to learn it at FSI before the job started. (He ended up somewhere else, however.)</p>

<p>There are a couple of rules that they try to enforce. If you got bonus points for a CNL you are supposed to go to a post that mandates that language in either your first or second tour. Similarly, you are supposed to go a post in your cone in either your first or second tour (since so many newly minted FSOs end up starting in Consular and don’t do their proper cone until the second tour). </p>

<p>Sorry for the annoying detail, but I wanted to show how your ug college, GPA, grad school, etc. are not officially considered. Much more important are your foreign language skills and your aptitude and willingness to learn new ones. And the personal qualities tested in the oral exam, of course. </p>

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<p>Once again, thanks so much for all the valuable input! 48 hours until deadline, and we seem to be making some progress. D is leaning Goucher. I’m leaning Rhodes. My flirtation with Elliot School is fading (at least for now). Waiting to hear back from Oberlin on an appeal.</p>

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<p>This web site says that “most” FSO positions require an advanced degree:

</p>

<p>See: <a href=“http://www.usaid.gov/work-usaid/careers/foreign-service/foreign-service-officer-faq”>http://www.usaid.gov/work-usaid/careers/foreign-service/foreign-service-officer-faq&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is from the USAID web site - I tried the State Dept. but I keep getting error messages when I try to connect to the “Careers” section - maybe someone else will have better luck - see <a href=“Foreign Service Officer - Careers”>http://careers.state.gov/officer/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But that sort of information is the source of my daughter’s sense that a Master’s degree would be an important qualifier for many jobs. Actually, it looks like my daughter would need a Masters to even get the private agency job she had straight out of undergrad - at least all the people who now hold that position have very impressive educational credentials, including graduate degrees. She had been told at the time she left that they were going seek job applicants with master’s degrees in the future – she was very closely involved in the hiring process, as part of her job was to screen applications, and she also hired her own replacement. (This is a private agency that works closely with the UN )</p>

<p>@janesmith‌ - it sounds like your son has impressive foreign language skills – I assume that’s an an asset that is highly regarded by his employer. Unfortunately, OP wrote

. </p>

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<p>^ I would take that statement with a grain a salt, since the daughter spent a year in India and is thus fluent in Hindi (or Gujarati or …) PLUS speaks French, which can be easily improved with a semester in France for someone who has a good background (I assume this due to Elliott = language skills are important, so her French can’t be too shabby).</p>

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<p>If your child wants to do languages and foreign service, send her to the cheaper school and send her to the Middlebury Language schools in the summer. Their language training is better than anywhere else anyway, and sending her there will put her at the top of language learners. </p>

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<p>D’s French and Hindi skills are very rudimentary. </p>

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<p>Please let us know what happens. I followed this thread with interest. A lot of us will be comfronting similar choices. </p>

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<p>You guys are going to sleep well this weekend once a decision has been made. </p>

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<p>One last thing to think about Rhodes is 50% Greek and Goucher has no Greek life. Good luck with your decisions.</p>

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<p>Calmom wrote:</p>

<p>“This is from the USAID web site - I tried the State Dept. but I keep getting error messages.”</p>

<p>The requirements for USAID are very different from State. USAID could also be a rewarding career path for OP’s d.</p>

<p>Here are the requirements for the State dept, from their website.</p>

<p><a href=“Who We Look For - Careers”>http://careers.state.gov/officer/who-we-look-for&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>Who can become a Foreign Service Officer?</p>

<p>To be eligible, the U.S. Department of State requires that all applicants be:
•U.S. citizens on the date they submit their registration package
•At least 20 years old and no older than 59 years of age on the day you submit your registration
•At least 21 years old and not yet 60 on the day you are appointed as a Foreign Service Officer</p>

<p>Available for worldwide assignments, including Washington, D.C. </p>

<p>Even though you are not required to know a foreign language to become a FSO, proficiency in one or more languages will enhance your competitiveness for selection. </p>

<p>If you are a capable, healthy and dedicated candidate who is prepared to step up to the challenges facing our country and the world, we want to talk to you. </p>

<p>Are you ready to make a difference? Click here to review 13 dimensions (pdf) sought in all Foreign Service candidates and explore the traits needed for a successful and fulfilling career.</p>

<hr>

<p>So basically, the only requirements are age and US citizenship. There are no formal educational requirements at all. On the other hand, you have to pass the tests so as a practical matter you need a good education. Here’s how one FSO describes it in the AFSA publication “Inside a U.S. Embassy,” which is worth reading cover to cover. </p>

<p><a href=“https://www.afsa.org/Portals/0/iuse_career_prep.pdf”>https://www.afsa.org/Portals/0/iuse_career_prep.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>Education is key. </p>

<p>It does not matter what you studied or where you went to</p>

<p>college (technically, it does not matter if you went to college at all), but to</p>

<p>survive the exams and thrive in the career, you will need to have a broad academic</p>

<p>foundation, intellectual curiosity, good study habits, and strong research</p>

<p>and writing skills.</p>

<p>Live overseas if you can. </p>

<p>In my A-100 class, 85 percent had previously lived
overseas either for school, volunteer service, or work. Going abroad is a good
gut-check for anyone thinking about a career in the Foreign Service, and
provides ample anecdotes to demonstrate the 13 Dimensions.</p>

<hr>

<p>(Note: I copy/pasted the 13 Dimensions in a post upthread.)</p>

<p>So study abroad is good; working abroad may be even better. </p>

<p>So much of what you do as an FSO you can’t learn at university. The State Department knows it has to train career officers for every job they undertake. Not just language training, but craft training in your cone (I see they’re calling it “career track” now), the “crash and bang” course (there was an article about this in the New York Times a few months ago), etc.</p>

<p>The State Department certainly values graduate education. FSOs who make it to mid-level and have distinguished themselves can pursue graduate study at the Department’s expense at Princeton and elsewhere.</p>

<hr>

<p>The Department’s University Economics Training Program (UET) is designed for highly motivated mid-career FS-03 and FS-02 Foreign Service economic-coned officers, who have both outstanding work records and strong undergraduate preparation in economics and quantitative methods</p>

<p>The National Defense Intelligence College (NDIC) Master of Science in Strategic Intelligence (MSSI) program.</p>

<p>The U.S. Army War College (AWC) in its Master of Strategic Studies Distance Education Program. </p>

<p>Princeton Master’s In Public Policy (MPP) Fellowship Program </p>

<p>Organizational Management (OM) Fellows Program sponsored by the George Washington University (GWU) College of Arts and Sciences Department of Organizational Sciences (OS) Fellows. The Organizational Management Fellows Program is a one-year Master’s Degree program.</p>

<p>Various DOD institutions such as the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, Air War College, and National War College where participants can earn Master’s degrees.</p>

<hr>

<p>I apologize for the length. In any case, OP’s daughter has to make a decision tomorrow (!!), but whatever she chooses she can be assured that it would not disqualify her from the Foreign Service if that continues to be her goal. </p>

<p>Please let us know!</p>

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<p>^ Let us say that some colleges are more conducive to the type of experiences they’re looking for. :slight_smile:
But this is going to be a stressful day and night for OP and his daughter, so let us keep our fingers crossed.</p>

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<p>It’s done. D just enrolled in Goucher. She’s disappointed that we couldn’t afford the “dream” schools, but she has been doing a lot of research the last few days on Goucher and has a plan for which dorm she wants. She made contact with the head of the IR department, and she’s planning to apply for the International Scholars Program. In other words she’s moving forward and starting to take charge, so that she can make the most out of the experience. </p>

<p>I really appreciate all the advice and information that this forum has provided. It was very valuable in helping me sort things out.</p>

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<p>That’s great news. Your daughter sounds great … I hope she’ll have a great experience!</p>

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<p>Congratulations! That’s wonderful that she is moving forward . It sounds like she has a very good plan . Hope she has a great time at Goucher. And that you enjoy your visits there as well. You were great throughout this whole process. All the best to you and your family! You have an exciting time ahead.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you and your daughter.
Keep us updated about how it goes… she may well end up loving Goucher! :)</p>

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<p>So spring for a Goucher sweatshirt and/or t-shirt for her via mail order as a surprise, it always helps them get excited. Good for her to start looking forward! I hope she ends up loving it.</p>

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<p>Congrats on the final choice! I’d have to note that Goucher is a college that I identified early on as a possible good fit for my daughter, and in fact the only college where she arranged an overnight stay when she visited. I thing Goucher has some terrific programs, and I also think that in today’s competitive and expensive admission environment, she is going to find many other students who are similar to her. </p>

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<p>grossjh:</p>

<p>Congratulations!. What a relief for you and what a wonderful adventure for your daughter. It sounds like she is embracing the opportunity and will make the most of what Goucher has to offer.</p>

<p>If the State Dept is still on her radar and she has time this summer, she might want to check out the May issue of the Foreign Service Journal, which has a bunch of articles on changes in the Foreign Service since 1924. (It’s the 90th anniversary of the Rogers Act, which created the modern Foreign Service.)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.afsa.org/FSJ/0514/index.html”>http://www.afsa.org/FSJ/0514/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Especially interesting are the 20 or so snippets where current FSOs share a key moment in their careers. It gives you a good idea of the wide range of activities FSOs do in every corner of the world. </p>

<p>Note also the short article about FSO recruiting at BYU’s David M. Kennedy Center for International Relations and the “site of the month,” USC’s Center of Public Diplomacy. More proof that you don’t have to go to Georgetown, Princeton, or the like to become an FSO. </p>

<p>The best news of all though is that last month the Senate finally released its hold on the commission, tenure, or promotion of 1800 FSOs. </p>