<p>Daughter has her "heart set on" school A. A may accept her but she has almost no shot at merit money. School B is well known...but tier II in reputation and rank. But they're offering a prestigious merit scholarship worth $20k a year. Both are private and in the $50k range all in (tuition/rm/board,e tc). Of course our EFC is like $10million per year, but there's no way we can sell the home, and plunk down the cash while also trying to save for our own retirement. We can fork over about $15k a year from college savings, and another $15 directly from our income.</p>
<p>I'm trying to convince her not to go into massive debt, and to think about needs for grad school. As well as being a "cash poor kid" at school A. I see in her eyes the thinking that it's gotta be school A. I don't want to dash her dreams.....yet...feel like it's reality check time. I know this is a well worn tale.....what to do? Advice?</p>
<p>It would really help to know exactly which schools you’re speaking of. Tier 2 could mean anything from a “lower ivy” to “Podunk State University”.</p>
<p>Other things of importance, what major is she looking at. The extra tuition would be much more easily justified for an engineering major than for an english major.</p>
<p>In general, though, I would say that you should never (ever) take out $80,000 in loans for undergrad. Ever. And if you have the option to go to a good school debt-free, you should jump at the chance.</p>
<p>thanks…the “heart” school is in the “Stanford/Duke/ND/USC” area reputationally. The tier II is in the “Wake/UofMiami/Syracuse” mold. More specificity would out me with my offspring.</p>
<p>The “tier 2” schools, while not on the same level as the others, are all very respectable colleges. </p>
<p>My advice is to take the money and go to the lesser school. It may leave a sour taste in her mouth, but odds are she’ll soon get over it. $80,000 is far too much debt for undergrad. That’s the kind of debt that can cripple you for life if things don’t go your way.</p>
<p>True enough on Wake at #25, yet (because you asked) it’s more about prestige and national rep for the daughter. it’s the window decal to some extent. That said. Miami at 47 and Cuse at 55 aren’t exactly slackers.</p>
<p>But the point is that several seem to be a good fit, and offer good faculty in the major field. I come from the school of “you can get a great education at state U if you apply yourself” So for me it would be “take the money” and don’t roll up the debt this early in your life. But it’s not about me…it’s about her. In the end we just need to have the “what do you really want” chat…and see where that takes her…as you point out…after she’s accepted or not at School A.</p>
<p>I agree with Rodney: wait until the options are on the table. But, if I had your EFC, I could easily say that the heart-schools are worth the extra $20k/year over Miami. No, not because they are ‘heart’ schools, but they just offer so much more. You would also be buying a broader alumni network.</p>
<p>The problem seems to come down to this: you can’t afford the EFC to send your kid to Stanford, but you don’t have the heart to break this news to your daughter. So between now and April, what can possibly change (other than a thin envelope) to make this any easier? </p>
<p>Is there any chance you’ve over-estimated your EFC? At a few schools (HYPS), EFC is now very low for incomes all the way up to $180K-$200K. So maybe the top-tier school will be more affordable than you expect. But if you’re sure about the EFC, then in my opinion you really need to explain the financial facts of life to her before a fat envelope arrives in April. You don’t want to start having this conversation in the emotional 2 weeks she’ll have to make a decision … unless you are definitely willing to sell your house or cash out retirement to pay the bills.</p>
<p>Don’t let her take out more money than the Stafford loans allow ($25,000ish) total. Absolutely do NOT let her go to those top schools if you can’t afford it. But sometimes, honestly, when you have the fat envelope in hand for fabulous school A, you may find that you are willing to do more than you think you currently can. That’s what happened to us. When the boy got into his number 1 dream school (and a dream school it is), somehow, we found ourselves saying yes to him, and we’ve never been sorry.</p>
<p>Great advice here. Did you discuss your financial limitations when she formulated her list of schools? Our kids were very accepting, and even grateful, when we gave them a dollar amount we could afford, though it was less than our EFC. They understood that they could only attend a school outside of that range if they received merit aid. Has your daughter thought through what will happen if she’s accepted at school A without aid? You mention her taking on massive debt, but she won’t be able to get loans in that amount - you’ll have to do it.</p>
<p>Even if you didn’t specify in advance that you can’t afford the full freight at her favorite school, you can tell her now so that she has time to process it. She may be disappointed that she can’t afford to go without aid, and she may be a bit resentful that you didn’t tell her ahead of time - but that’s better than seeing the joy go out of her eyes when she gets the fat envelope and you have to tell her then. (And maybe she WILL get one of those rare merit scholarships - hope she does!)
This can happen, too. The important part is to have no regrets, whatever decision you make. There are some CC posters who say yes to the full freight school and spend the next 4 years crabbing about the better deals other families are getting - that’s not pretty.</p>
<p>I think we are misunderstanding the OP; I may be wrong, but it sounds like they can more than afford the more expensive school; it’s just that “Mitch” doesn’t know if it is worth it…but his daughter wants the “window decal”…</p>
<p>I go back to my original post; if this is not about $$ per se (i.e. no debt but less $$ for luxuries), I would still wait till the acceptances came to have this discussion with your daughter…</p>
<p>If I am wrong, and it is a question of affordability and debt, then NO WAY would I counsel the OP to encourage the “higher ranked” schools…and I, too, am a state U grad who applied themselves (and then went to Ivy grad)…</p>
<p>and btw, for what it’s worth, Syracuse Whitman school while not a top 10, has amazing alumni connections for internships and jobs…don’t know as much about UMiami business…</p>
<p>For your top prestige schools, you mention USC…I’m assuming Marshall?? Excellent connections for California; not sure about East Coast although USC has been increasing it’s East Coast population; alumni base may be more West Coast based…</p>
<p>net-net, the fit is NOT all about the prestige…as usual…</p>
<p>What I did when D was accepted at ‘school A’ (her high-prestige, very-hard-to-get-into school) and others that cost less:
I plugged in the numbers on all–TOTAL cost of attendance.
Then I took out any merit scholarships (which she got, but NOT of course, at school A)</p>
<p>Then I plugged in what we could afford to contribute (around 100k total)…</p>
<p>And ran the loan numbers–when I told her the loan amounts at school A, and her monthly payments for 10 years after graduation, she immediately took that option off the table herself. She did NOT like the idea of big loan payments.</p>
<p>It worked because I was pretty sure that would be her reaction. Your D may think that a loan years down the road seems too far away to think about. Or she may hope/think you’ll end up paying it. I made it really clear that 100k was our ceiling. </p>
<p>She’s very happy in her slightly-less-prestigious school and getting a fine education, with no debt.</p>
<p>Correct. If the OP had financial need, one of the ‘heart’ schools, particularly Stanford, would likely be less expensive than Miami, which does not meet full need.</p>
<p>When you want to by the Gucci shoes you have to pay-up. I know what I would tell my Kid. You are going to school for an education not for a status symbol. I would tell her, we will help you but if you want the Gucci shoes then you will have to pay-up yourself. They will make the right decision once they have to pay.</p>
<p>And by the way it is not worth the extra money. the degree will still be the same.</p>
<p>I have a close friend that went to Uof I law school and he became senior partner way before the 2 Harvard law grads.</p>
<p>Thanks all…gr8 discussion. We’re somewhere in between with her. We’ve said "without at least <em>some</em> merit money…the $50k schools will be really difficult for us. We havent’ been definative tho. May be time for that. Part of it is that our retirement funds got so pounded…that while our EFC is very high…we have to try to replenish for retirement. Everything I’ve read says “don’t go into debt for your child’s college.” We have about $18k a year 4 four years saved up…plus can put another $15 to $20k per year…directly from income…into the mix. That gets us up to about $35k. $5k/yr student loan…leaves us $10k away. With $10k in merit she’s there. but even then it’s just “barely” there. then there’s travel, books, any extra curriculars. Study abroad…see what i mean. You’re scraping to get there…and then there’s still more. We plan to lay this out for her transparently…BEFORE the envelopes come. And as one poster said, let her choose among the options. We think $20k or so in debt for her coming out of college should be the max. Otherwise you’re catching up all through your 20’s.</p>
<p>last post puts situation in a very different light…discuss with her before the acceptances come in; there are sooo many extra expenses that you are not even accounting for; add sorority, summer stuff, etc…</p>
<p>in addition, these schools are not even 50K anymore, they are higher…</p>
<p>you don’t mention if this is your first or last child going to college (or somewhere in the middle)…?</p>
<p>***I’m trying to convince her not to go into massive debt, ***</p>
<p>Well, this is VERY EASY…your D cannot borrow much without YOUR signature as a co-signer. If you make it clear that you WILL NOT co-sign loans…then “case closed.”</p>
<p>Your D can only borrow the following amounts…</p>
<p>Frosh 5500
Soph 6500
Jr 7500
Sr 7500</p>
<p>Were you aware of that?</p>
<p>BTW…when your D is in her 2nd year of making student loan payments and she realizes that her colleagues are earning the same as she is (w/o the debt or decal), she’s going to realize how foolish it was to go into debt.</p>
<p>HYPS = Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford (frequently an M is added for MIT). I don’t think any of them offer merit aid but they do have the most generous FA.</p>