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<p>That is not specific to LACs; it is specific to the major being switched to. Majors which have longer sequences of prerequisites are more likely to delay graduation if the student changes into them too late without having taken the earlier courses in the sequence, or fails an important course, or declines to take an important course because it is offered at 8am.</p>
<p>Is community college an option? You should look up what credits you can transfer from the CC to Barnard/GW/American. If you can do ~$30k for 4, then that would equate to $60k for 2 if she transferred to one of those schools after 2 years. </p>
<p>Barnard does not offer an IR major; it offers a poli sci major with a concentration in IR.
Barnard has an excellent poli sci department which can provide a strong foundation, but it is not the equivalent of a degree directly in IR such as Georgetownâs BSFS. It is NOT a career-oriented or foundational degree to prep for the foreign service exam. The degree is more academically focused. I know, that was my daughterâs major-- in no way, shape or form would she have been prepared for the foreign service exam on graduation. On the other hand, she probably could have had her choice of Ph.D programs in related fields, if that had been her desire â she certainly was wel prepared to pursue further studies. </p>
<p>Iâd add that itâs darn near impossible to get any job beyond entry level in the field of IR without a masterâs degree. My d. at one time considered foreign service, but I donâ think she ever thought of it as something that she would enter with only a bachelorâs. </p>
<p>I would imagine that the graduate schools with strong IR programs take students with an array of undergraduate majors. A good path for someone who cannot afford a top program as an undergrad might be a degree from anywhere, with a major in any of a number of disciplines (history, econ, foreign language, etc), followed by a stint in the Peace Corps, followed by a graduate program in IR. </p>
<p>A generation ago, I was the student who wanted to join the foreign service but who could only afford my in-state school where at the time there was no IR major that I was aware of. I took a wide range of courses, because I am interested in a wide range of things, and found that I had no problem passing the written portion of the Foreign Service exam after my BA. In fact, I passed it three times, in three different years.</p>
<p>The exam in those days was divided into sections, and you did not have to pass all of them. You had to pass the economics section plus some basic sections to be placed on the list for economic officer, or you could pass a political section, or a cultural section There were sections for each âconeâ of the service. Each time I passed all the sections of the written test. Then three times I went to what was then called the âoralâ interview in D.C. </p>
<p>That was an interview, but you were also observed working in a group and negotiating with other candidates, and there was an in-box test. I never made it past the oral interview. The first time I was there, almost everyone else testing (we went out to lunch together) seemed to be from Princeton (it was the early 80s). On other occasions, I would be there with people from Princeton, or Georgetown, or other DC schools. I found out that they were being prepped for the oral interview. They knew what to expect. They practiced it. I had no way to get that type of training for the oral interview at the time, but I always wonder how I might have done if I had had that background. </p>
<p>So, what I mean is: if you want the Foreign Service career, you might learn some absolutely vital soft skills in a program geared to that career. </p>
<p>Some people here know what the career and the exam entail. Please listen.
I know that some parents are well-meaning, offering a DIY type of path but even if well-meaning, that doesnât work. It takes a specific path, just like IB or breaking into Hollywood, that not all schools and locations can provide, regardless of how good another school may be âon paperâ. Another example is the community college route: it can be perfectly good if you have a strong system, like Californiaâs. But even there it doesnât work for CS and engineering because community colleges donât have the COE prereqs, leading to a BS that canât be done unless courses are ârepeatedâ and major classes delayed. At a CC near where I lived, the <em>only</em> non remedial math course was CalculusI. A student who wanted to study anything requiring math wouldnât have been able to. Not all schools can work for all careers and not all schools are the same.
Georgetown will provide something the other schools wonât. But unless your actual budget is different from what you shared with us (and we have no reason to think otherwise) the cost is still too high since 52K is well above the 30s you had as a budget. Within reasonable distance of that budget, Goucher (and, to a lesser extent, Rhodes) will provide a lesser version of whatâs needed. UWyoming wonât. Itâd be a disservice to be well-meaning and tweak reality.
This kid has a chops to get into GWU and Barnard. Obviously sheâs bright and driven.
If the costs for Goucher or Rhodes are too high, then perhaps a gap year spent abroad (there are high school programs organized by YFU, AFSâŠ) would be a good alternative, hoping she can get more scholarships from schools such as American, perhaps trying for merit at UMD, and/or looking for merit scholarships at other âfeederâ schools (Tufts, for instance), etc shooting for admission with better financial offers (although she may be better off asking for a deferral if sheâs to reapply to a school that admitted her then that she turned down, ie., GWU.) Youâd have to investigate merit aid seriously. For instance, the critical language flagships may offer some university-wide scholarship competition with merit aid and their graduates are prioritized for foreign service. Bryn Mawr and Middlebury would be top choices but they donât offer merit that I know of. The gap year + merit at a critical language flagship is risky but an alternative, plus itâd let her work on her language skills.
Also, ask the questions I suggested above wrt to intensive/critical language, Peace Corps, etc.
<a href=âhttp://www.thelanguageflagship.org/â>http://www.thelanguageflagship.org/</a></p>
<p>OP, I PMed you last night about Croftâs Institute for International Studies at U Mississippi. They are a Chinese flagship. Here is link to their scholarship page:<a href=âhttp://finaid.olemiss.edu/scholarships/â>http://finaid.olemiss.edu/scholarships/</a> They have amazing scholarships for NMFs, but if not NMF, then a sliding scale of scholarships for stats- almost $20k/yr for 1440/3.0. That is automatic. And can apply for $8k/yr for Croft students, $8k/yr for honors students and many others. Also note that if she is a NMF, many of the Arabic and Chinese flagships are schools that have the huge NMF scholarships.</p>
<p>Portland State is a Russian flagship? Do they have any special international programs that work in conjunction with that, like U Missisissippi?</p>
<p>Go to Wyoming for a year or two and save money. Then transfer into a âdreamâ school. The degree will still read âdream schoolâ. </p>
<p>If it were all about money the student could do that. But it is pretty disruptive to friendships, activities, and academic continuity to transfer. Transfer students still get the degree, but I see transfer as something to be done if (1) the finances canât be handled any other way, or (2) a student is truly unhappy at their original choice school for some reason (which could be social, change in major preference, etc). </p>
<p>These days, I think it should all be about money. Investment, payoff, probability of success. She can make new friends or not. Lifeâs tough when parents asked to ruin themselves financially so she can possibly have more friends. (I know sheâs not asking for this but am just responding to the hypothetical.)</p>
<p>So itâs boiling down to the âoral interviewâ for which some students at some campuses (Princeton) are rumored to be prepped. Goucher and Barnard are not Princeton, and the Princeton people probably eat their lunch at those oral interviews. Pecking order. If the choice were to pay for Princeton, thatâs one thing, but thatâs not an available option.</p>
<p>Did you ever consider that the âoral interviewâ is a way to include factors they are not supposed to include on an objective written assessment? Somehow everyone who succeeds comes from, say, Princeton. Is it because Princeton is better, or they have a better network? Iâd assume itâs significantly the latter.</p>
<p>So pay for almost-Princeton? The only way to assess this option is to estimate the probability of success. I guess it would be in the 20-30% range, meaning that if the degree is finished at a school less than Princeton, you spent the money and with 70-80% probability are still shut out of the career. Think Iâm wrong? Prove it.</p>
<p>Also, realize that the success of students from a program (say, Barnard) may have a lot to do with their outside connections. Did they succeed because they are from Barnard, or because the same connections that steered them to Barnard can now help a lot to get them into the State Dept.? This is a big thing to consider at any ânameâ school, where the students may be connected. This is hard to estimate, and you may not even see it explicitly working from the inside as a student, just that things somehow donât break right for you at the critical moments in the program, and nobody will tell you why. Try to estimate this too, itâs harder but itâs definitely something to take into account before spending the money.</p>
<p>When I read the list of schools and costs, as well as the studentâs goals, my mind immediately jumps to Rhodes, and then to Goucher. So, pretty much the same as others on the thread.</p>
<p>Croft is a GREAT idea . Portland state is too commuter, and in my opinion not worth the price except for critical language flagship</p>
<p>Check out some of the Croft aumni profiles on the site. Of course they choose their most successful grads to profile, but the cream rises to the top, right? If she is strong student she will succeed from anywhere and if put in a place with adequate resources and appropriate program that is even more true.</p>
<p>Since Princeton has come up in few posts, looking at the ranking of top ten international relations undergraduate programs in the US, Princeton is ranked 2nd (with Harvard being the #1) by Foreign Policy magazine.
<a href=âhttp://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/top_ten_international_relations_undergraduate_programs?page=0,7â>http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/top_ten_international_relations_undergraduate_programs?page=0,7</a>
Perhaps others on this thread who have in-depth experience in Foreign Policy may want to comment on the ranking. </p>
<p>Given that OPâs daughter wants to pursue international relations, it begs the question: Strategically, how does one get training from a top ten undergraduate program in international Relations program, gain international exposure, learn a foreign language (preferably by immersion), and minimize the overall expenditure for undergraduate studies?
One possibility, as mentioned earlier, is to seek admissions at a high profile university (in international relations) overseas that has partnership agreement with many of the top ten programs in the US. The student pays lower tuition at the host institution and gets to spend a year studying at any of the partnership universities in the US.
It may be too late to apply for admissions for 2014 session at many of the top 20 programs (as ranked by QS World University Rankings) in International relations.
<a href=âQS World University Rankings for Politics 2014 | Top Universitiesâ>QS World University Rankings for Politics 2014 | Top Universities;
Sciences Po in France does have exchange programs with 6 of the top ten universities (in International Relations) in the US,
Princeton (Ranked 2nd), Columbia (4), Georgetown (5), Chicago (7), George Washington (9), American (10). </p>
<p>The deadline to apply for undergraduate admissions is May 2nd.
Note that Sciences Poâs undergraduate programâs duration is 3 years, with a total cash outlay of around $77K -$80K over 3 years, as compared with roughly $136K+ over 4 years at Goucher & Rhodes. One does need further details on admissions (& requirements) about Sciences Poâs partnership universities from the past years to gain an understanding of the probability of success for OPâs case.<br>
It might be worthwhile If OPâs daughter can seek extension from the top contenders (among her admitted universities) to delay her decision to matriculate.</p>
<p>Disclosure: This writer is not affiliated with Sciences Po; his D is currently considering it as part of dual degree. </p>
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<p>Again, Barnard does not offer an IR degree. They offer a political science degree with a concentration in international relations â but not a career-focused IR degree. Barnard has a 5-year combined degree program with Columbia SIPA, but it is darn near impossible to get into. (Only 1 or 2 students a year are admitted).</p>
<p>There is a big difference between an academic-focused major and a career-focused major. </p>
<p>And, as I posted above: a person who seriously wants a career in the diplomatic service should be planning on an advanced degree. There are some funding options available for grad school for young people committed to entering the foreign service â see <a href=âhttp://woodrow.org/fellowships/pickering/â>http://woodrow.org/fellowships/pickering/</a></p>
<p>I also believe that there are probably a wide range of undergraduate majors that would be good preparation for a future career in the foreign service. I donât think that admissions to the graduate schools offering IR degrees is dependent on a particular undergraduate program, although there is probably a set of coursework that should be completed - in that way it is analogous to a student who is pre-med or pre-law. </p>
<p>If the student is dead set on a career in the foreign service, then she should be setting her sights on graduate school and plan accordingly. </p>
<p>If money were no object, then I would be singing the praises of Barnard. My daughter got a wonderful undergraduate education there. But is not a career-focused program, and would not lead directly to a foreign service career â though of course my d. was well-prepared to follow any path she chooses for a graduate degree. </p>
<p>But if the family can pay $30K a year for college, then the daughter needs to either choose among the options she has that fit what her family affords â or take a gap year to regroup and submit applications to colleges that meet her goals and are within the family budget.</p>
<p>Please, do not deplete retirement monies paying for your kids colleges. I have a relative who has been doing this (he never asked our opinion) and is now crying in his soup and alluding to expecting a handout. If there is any chance that this could be you in a few years, PLEASE do NOT do this to yourself!</p>
<p>Many of us old timers here know of the wonderfuls stories about Rhodes. Goucher is an excellent choice too. Hope those become affordable!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the info. I hadnât heard of the language flagships, or of the Croftâs Institute. My daughter is not a NMF. Her test scores and grades are low/average for Rhodes, and high average for Goucher. Community college seems an unlikely choice for my daughter given her concern for prestige. Starting at the University of Wyoming and transferring makes some sense, unless there are credit transfer issues, but I think she would rather just not go to college than attend University of Wyoming. Though I see the value in the University of Wyoming as a well funded state school at a great price, I have to admit that Laramie is not a great town, bad weather, isolated, full of the same people that she grew up with. The school would have larger class sizes, less prestige, low retention and graduation rates. She is suggesting a trial full price year at Barnard, but that doesnât seem wise. We seem to be heading for a choice between Goucher or Rhodes, or a do over. If we canât find a school that we can afford and that she will be comfortable attending then our fall back plan may have to be a gap year and start the process again. </p>
<p>If her concern is prestige, then a gap year isnât going to do any good. Top schools will be no more affordable next year than they are this year.</p>
<p>Transfers rarely get the same level of merit aid as freshman. Far better to start at Rhodes than go to your unaffordable options where sheâd both save money and have the added advantages of a tight social circle formed during her freshman year. </p>
<p>D would rather not go to college, than at least get some prereqs done at U Wyoming? What does low retention have to do with it, is she afraid she would flunk out? Donât let her coerce you this way. Sheâs acting as if sheâs entitled to your retirement funds. Is she?</p>
<p>A trial year at Barnard? So she does fairly well and then what? The time to make a decision is now. Remember, everyone says financial aid tends to go down, not up, after freshman year. She really wants Barnard but she didnât qualify for merit aid there. Thatâs the hard reality.</p>
<p>Put your foot down now. Donât let this system chew you up and spit you out.</p>
<p>Sciences Po is a fantastic option if D can get in. I am skeptical just because people in France would kill to get in there. But its worldwide prestige is much higher than any of the schools D was admitted to including Barnard. It would be a real step up in life if she can get in there. Donât spend money for less than first rate schools here. And donât get tunnel vision and think the worldâs choices are a band between Barnard and Wyoming. Barnard is OK but nobody outside the USA will care about it â something the State Dept. is surely keenly aware of. Maybe she can take a freshman year at Wyoming while upgrading her qualifications to the level of top European students, then try for something like Sciences Po.</p>
<p>I donât know about Sciences Po, but at schools we looked at in Finland, admission was based solely on entrance exams and at the best schools those exams are only available in Finnish and require travel to the school to take them, not given elsewhere. Even at schools that allow exams in English, demonstrating a fairly high proficiency in the language is required. This is all for undergrad. Grad school is different. They do seem to run a much later calendar than American schools. What is it like in France?</p>
<p>According to the Barnard CDS, they give $0 in non-need-based merit aid. So nobody qualifies for merit aid there.</p>
<p>Her list of acceptances is nice, so I assumed her scores/grades would be high. Sorry. </p>
<p>Can kids take tests again during a gap year to raise scores?</p>