@observer12, I agree that’s a valid opinion, just as the different one from @homerdog is valid.
The key for me is that a school tries to provide as much need-based aid as possible. While it is a challenge for many in the top-20% to realize an affordable college education, its impossible for the bottom-40% to do without significant institutional help - many of the schools with the greatest % of the top-1% are leading the effort to accomplish that goal.
Clearly no bias here. :))
Ok my view. My son is in an honors program at a State University. Small classes, great peer group but he also likes his other classes. He should come out of undergrad debt free. That means a lot. He is pre-vet so that is a little different than some majors. For him grades are the most important thing. He knows he would not have been happy and an Ivy or very top school. Academically he could do it but he loves having time to be in a frat, join clubs, have time with his gf and go to sports events. He says he has never been this happy in his entire life. So I think it really depends on the kid, what they want, the finances, the degree and the school. There is no one answer. And yes he doesn’t feel there are as many wealthy kids as there were at his high school but he loves the quality of the students that are on his campus and their diversity.
@momocarly that’s a great outcome for the your son. That said, many state flagship universities have the same or greater diversity challenges than their LAC peers - Missouri 78% Caucasian, Wisconsin is 74%, Pitt 73%, Ohio State 69%, Alabama is 67% to name a few.
Isn’t the US about 75% Caucasian?
^I don’t think so. Some of the most populous states (Texas, California) haven’t been 50% Caucasian in ten years or more, I think, and Florida is close to that too.
ETA: I just checked the census and White, non Hispanic, makes up 61% of the population including Arab and North African origin people (not sure if Middle Eastern/Arab origin individuals and North African origin individuals are considered Caucasian so depending on the definition the percentage may be lower for “Caucasian”).
Florida was 55% White/not Hispanic but including Middle Eastern and North African individuals.
The US population of college attending people might not be 75% caucasian, but some states are. There are also other kinds of diversity than race like SES and religion.
Well Missouri, Ohio, Wisconsin, Alabama…in those states based on the stats offered the racial diversity seems to match the diversity in the state as a whole. I don’t follow the argument.
Bias is bias no matter how you spin it or how many stats you spit out as nauseum.
@carolinamom2boys, it would be great to hear your thoughts as everyone is pulling together from many different perspectives. That said, I don’t know what “bias is bias” means.
Being exposed to top 1%, top 2%, top 10% kids is very useful for bottom 60% kids. Not just for connections and networking (although that definitely helps, especially if your parents never went to college) but also in terms of perspective and habitus. It’s uncomfortable at first but it helps in the long run. So, elite private universities are very useful for kids who need social capital and habitus.
It’s not as necessary for upper middle class kids who have already gained the habitus from their family; kids whose parents went to college and have some social capital to help them with do as well regardless of whether they attend Honors Colleges, a Flagship, an elite LAC, a private university.
This is not true for lower income/first generation kids.
(Reading recommendation: read A Hope in the Unseen).
@LOUKYDAD, that may be correct for the population of Wisconsin, but the Universty of Wisconsin at Madison is only 57% in-state students, so more work to do like many other universities. Alabama pulls even more out of state, with only 32% in-state students. State flagships are highly sought after schools that are pulling from every state.
I’ve shared my thoughts earlier. There is a clear bias towards private schools on this thread . Every time someone shares their experience that does not support that private schools are more desirable or provide a better education , the statistics come out.
There isn’t any bias towards private schools on my part as I attended both public and private universities. While I wish I had attended an Honors College/LAC for my undergraduate education as I would have benefited from the smaller classes, I wasn’t aware of the environment and either were parents at the time.
Would be interested in any stats as I thought it was clear from those that have contributed that public and public universities, as well as private and public Honors College/LAC’s can all provide excellent educations.
Leaving aside the wackiness of having state-sponsored publics (as opposed to national publics, as is the case in nearly every other first world country), I’m not sure why state schools “have more work to do” when it comes to diversity so long as they provide opportunity to kids within their state.
@PurpleTitan,because state flagships are pursuing high achieving full pay out-state and international students at an ever increasing rate - Public Colleges Chase Out-of-State Students, and Tuition https://nyti.ms/29CAv3o
I hope you didn’t read my posts as a bias either for or against private colleges. I didn’t intend it to be. I absolutely agree with you that while a student’s education and experience may be different, it is by no means better.
@Chembiodad, that’s because states aren’t subsidizing their publics much any more.
There was a point in time in recent years when the state’s contribution to the budget of UMich, UVa, PSU, and Colorado was around 1-3% of the total budget.
I still don’t see how that has much to do with your implication that publics aren’t diverse enough if they roughly match the diversity of their state.
Most of the public flagships tend to skew higher in SES and parental educational attainment than their states, for obvious reasons. However, many of the high end private schools skew that way to an even greater extent, such as having around half of their students with no financial aid (top 3% or so income and wealth to afford that).
Assuming you mean white, rather than only people like Armenians, Azeris, Georgians, Chechens, etc…
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045216 says 76.9% white, but 61.3% white not Hispanic or Latino.
However, the high school and college age population is probably around 57% white not Hispanic or Latino; see http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/ .