I think that for kids that are fairly certain they want to go to medical school, the state U honors college route makes so much more sense. Saving dollars for medical school as well as avoiding grade deflation/weedout that happens at the schools where everyone was a HS val.
DS has a shot at a guaranteed med school admissions program at one of his choices. Not only would he have a full ride for UG at this school, a spot in the honors college and honors science LLP, as long as he maintains a 3.4 and scores above nat mean on MCAT, he knows he is getting into med school. Even better, they have been giving 45 to 50% off of instate med school tuition to the kids in this program every year to incentivize them to attend. It isn’t guaranteed, they could stop doing it in the future, so I don’t how exactly to think about it, but if it materializes it is an amazing deal on top of the UG full ride. Would put him in a position where I could help him graduate from med school with no debt, and still be out less money than I would spend on an elite school for UG.
When you have a opportunity like this one, when it comes to financial ROI, there is just no way I can imagine trading it for an elite school brand and the full pay cost that would come with it. Pay over $200k for UG, and then come home and pay full boat for an in-state med school, rather than take the above deal? I know people do it without blinking. I just think we are staring a much better option.
@PurpleTitan About the German system, I can’t imagine the yelling and screaming trying to implement a test based, bare-bones lecture system to the US. It takes a completely different cultural buy in that if you don’t do well on the tests, you belong on a different career path. The good apprentice system helps, but it really is a completely different cultural approach.
@turtle17: Yep, I don’t think it can take hold in the US, but from a societal perspective, it probably is the best system overall (and people in Germany do go to uni after unconventional routes as well; it’s not like they are totally shut out after their equivalent of HS).
However, isn’t relatively rigid tracking started at around middle school age, so that someone put on a non-university track in middle school would need to do a lot of catching up to get to a university? Perhaps having more viable non-university paths to careers in Germany makes it less likely to be seen as a problem.
^If you want a 1% college experience, you’re going to need a hefty number of 1% families to help subsidize it.The so-called, high end American universities and LACs that emerged after WWII have always been, with few exceptions, places for the very rich. They were able to extend their importance, even predominance, well into the 20th century by essentially re-branding themselves as wealthy foundations. It was a phenomenal success for a while; generations of suburban kids got to walk the halls that once rang with names like Roosevelt and Kennedy, Firestone and Rockefeller; entire cottage industries emerged around identifying which colleges were or were not “new ivies”; the Oxbridge stereotype complete with beloved professors who knew you by name, was available for the right combination of SAT score, ECs and “hooks”.
Then, middle-class salaries started stagnating while the costs associated with keeping a pristine, elm-shaded, fully-loaded residential experience with state-of-the art laboratories and rosters of tenured faculty (whose salaries, btw, seemed to be keeping up with inflation) continued to skyrocket. The sad fact is that it now costs as much - if not more - FA to enroll a class of medium-income students as it does to populate say, 20% of the same class with high-need students, assuming that the goal is to give them all the same qualitative experience.
@ucbalumnus, there is tracking in Germany around middle school, but these days, less than half of all university freshmen came in through the traditional Gymnasium route. That means that most are now non-traditional students who qualified some other way.
@Panther92, How was the Honors Program tour at UGA? Have you toured any smaller non public universities? How did they compare?
@websensation, early in the process, we toured the University of South Carolina on our way back from Raleigh. Happened to see the new building for International Business majors. It was very modern and seemed to look good, but was not impressed by their presentation and got the sense that the whole ranking thing is gimmicky (big sign outside stating they are #1 in the country…) I still think a degree from Wharton or Ross at the University of Michigan, Georgetown, Berkeley… would likely be of more interest to many job recruiters.
@Nomorelurker Thanks for your input. I do agree that Univ of South Carolina flaunts the number 1 ranking in IB according to USNWR a little bit too much, but totally understandable, and their IB courses seem to be varied. I have to admit that had it not been for their number 1 ranking in IB, I would not have researched it. In that sense, I guess I AM prestige driven. After all, I wasn’t about to encourage my kid to forego a likely UCLA/Berkeley in state education for any school unless it had something very good to offer in addition to free tuition. Because he was luckily a NMF, I knew he could get a nearly free education at some university, but I only researched several Honors universities which had one of top programs in areas in which my kid was somewhat interested. You should note, however, Admission to Haas Biz School is extremely competitive. At Univ of South Carolina, it was guaranteed. I would have strongly considered an Honors College if my kid had been interested in going to medical school because one or two HCs guaranteed admission to their medical schools as long as you got certain GPA.
@Nomorelurker The IB program at the Honors College at the University of SC is a well respected program nationally and internationally . It is not uncommon for schools to advertise their rankings . So sorry that it seemed “gimmicky” to you . A little research would’ve proved otherwise . That said, not every school is right for every student . It sounds like University of SC was not right for yours .
@websensation, understood about potential benefits of auto admit to South Carolina Int’l business program. It may be a strong program. I just question the ratings/rankings when compared to other known entities. We looked at Berkeley and one of the downsides if a student is interested in business, as you mentioned, would be that they do not have a four year program that freshman can start right away, plus very small % accepted when applying after freshman or sophomore year. S ruled out Cal Berkeley pretty quickly, but for other reasons.
The other USC (Southern CAL) by contrast has a four year business school, but of course more $$$ as a private university. Michigan used to be similar to Berkeley but I think they now allow some applications for direct admit as a freshman in the Ross business school. I believe they were losing some students to Kelley Business school in Indiana, which has a strong four year undergrad business school, less expensive, and a little easier to get into.
Students who know they want to go into a field, whether business, STEM, Comp Sci, or some other major, should probably consider the programs at universities, as well as the likelihood of being able to study what they want. Many end up changing majors so it is a good idea to choose a school that is not just strong in a couple of areas. And yes, the prospect of being an auto admit to their graduate school/med school or other factors such as cost, may make the State school more attractive. Is it Alabama that is offering the auto admit to Medical school if a minimum GPA is achieved in their UG school?
@carolinamom2boys, I don’t mean to disparage any school or program. As I mentioned in my prior post, the IB program at South Carolina may be very good. I am just not buying that it is the strongest (#1) program or even top three in the country in term of many factors (teaching, student body, job recruiting…). They may have a strong presence regionally in the South, but I would also think Duke, Wake Forest, UNC and nearby UVA would be quite competitive in the job market.
While it is fine to advertise rankings, having to put a huge banner on the outside of the building about the ranking seems a bit much. I doubt a well respected school like Wharton or Notre Dame would feel the need to do that. There is a feeling that the reputation speaks for itself. Again,the banner was just a personal turn off. Somebody else might view it positively.
The presentation of the program was also not as impressive as what we saw at other schools such as Michigan Ross or Southern Cal. That is not to say that South Carolina’s IB program is not very strong. And maybe like @websensation, I could be a little more prestige driven that I thought I was. Ultimately, it is the student, not the school or program, that will determine how successful he/she might be. I have no doubt that the IB program at South Carolina may be a great choice for some students.
The medical school is in Birmingham AL I believe. There is an early assurance program for high school students applying to UAB.
I don’t know if they have a preference for accepting UG students from other AL colleges.
There are non-prestigious schools that have outstanding direct entry nursing, 5yr PA, 6 yr DPT, 2+4 pharmacy programs, etc, and they are a great opportunity for students who know what they want. They might even get merit (for the undergraduate portion of the program).
What matters is the preparation for professional practice and national exam passing rates.
@carolinamom2boys, I wrote that I may be a little more prestige driven than I may have thought, but you don’t know me well enough to say I AM prestige driven. If that were the case, S would not likely have applied to or be considering universities that are not “high end” or “elite” by many people’s description on this thread.
Maybe you are offended that somebody had a different view of what the #1 ranking of the South Carolina IB program means or may not mean? Or not wanting to accept that rankings in general are very biased, skewed and unreliable!
@Nomorelurker My D is an international business major at another school but we looked at USCar last year. You are showing a prestige bias as you are naming several schools that you think might be better that don’t even offer IB as a major. USCar’s IB program is very strong and well known all over.
Does this discussion have to get personal? That’s not cool or necessary. Nerves are sensitive today I realize.
IMHO, I think saying a banner that touts ranking (the primary indicator of prestige, no?) is gimmicky seems to be antithetical to being prestige driven… am I missing something?
@itsgettingreal17, Point taken and I have twice stated that South Carolina’s IB program is likely very strong, with the caveat that the ranking of #1 or any ranking for that matter, may have inherent bias. Apologies to anyone who misunderstood that I was suggesting in any way that the IB program at South Carolina is not a good one for International Business.