<p>rodney - yes, I do know these kids quite well - since they were about 5 years old. All have plenty of opportunities for advanced classes - they just opted out of them. One of the kids did very poorly on the reading portion of the SAT because he didn't bother reading all the passages --he just "didn't care" (his words). Nice kids but will openly tell you about their apathetic attitude and lack of motivation. </p>
<p>I completely understand the difference between a "B" student in a rigorous curriculum and an apathetic student. I just wonder why HP would admit this type of student. The question was about the comparison to Elon - which I believe has a more selective admissions process. These kids I know would never have considered even applying to Elon.</p>
<p>While you have know the students since they were pre-schoolers, the adcoms don't - - and the lazy, apathetic attitude you describe might not have been evident in the application. For example, other than the student's admission, how would anyone have know that the low score was b/c he "just didn't care." And, perhaps HP, the admittedly less competitive school, is more willing to take a chance on an immature student (maybe this student's apathy is the result of immaturity, maybe not). </p>
<p>I don't think there's any doubt that the Elon student body is stronger academically than the HP student body. I'm just not sure that the difference can be attributed solely or primarily to laziness or apathy.</p>
<p>It is wonderful that there is a school that wants "to take a chance on an immature student," but for some serious students, they were in high school for 4 years with "immature students" and have had enough. I have a freshmen son at Elon, and know that Elon is strong academically, and the students tend to stay. My son was definitely on the lower end of their acceptance rate, and was so happy he got in, for the aforementioned reason of dealing with immature students while in high school. He took every advanced class he could in high school, and that has paid off. Many of the kids in his graduating class from last year are already home permanently, including two High Pointers. Maybe they should have started at community college (like I did :))first to see if college was for them at this time in their lives. I do know that we considered the "return and graduation rates" when looking at colleges. Of course, we all know exceptions to the rule, but that information is there for us to use if we choose.</p>
<p>The kids from our high school who have gone to HP were below average students with poor test scores. In fact, one boy had a GPA so low his own mother (my neighbor) was shocked he got in! In addition, he was a bit of a derelict--well-known to the cops as a troublemaker (started a fire behind our house, for ex.). The boy's sister went there also--a student who by her mother's own admission, is extremely social to the detriment of academics. Nice girl, but silly. Neither took a single honors class, much less an AP. A third girl was an aquaintance of my S's. She was a pleasant but airheaded girl whose nickname was "Pinhead."</p>
<p>HOWEVER, as I posted previously on another thread, this parent was extremely happy with the school, and it really turned her son around. He turned into a hardworking, engaged student and went on to a PhD program in a challenging science field and is doing very, very well. The small class size and individual attention were fabulous for him, and I hear that the school's facilities are amazing, and resemble those of a country-club.</p>
<p>Although I live just one state north, I don't know a whole lot about NC schools. We have heard great things about Elon but my best guess is that it would be a bit of a stretch for DS (smart enough kid; somewhat lazy in hs). I just went and dug up some info on HP--who can set me up with some NC schools sort of in between? This kid will not have a particular field of interest in mind, and I like the whole concept of LACs. I don't believe a school like Guilford would be a good fit. This is a pretty regular, somewhat shy kid. Recommendations for places to explore?</p>
<p>ingerp - Although it's in Virginia, consider Roanoke College. Its average SAT is 1115, compared to HP and Elon with 1030 and 1220, respectively. </p>
<p>It's also in middle size-wise: 2700, 3100, 4800.</p>
<p>The only students I know that attend HP were rather weak students in high school. However , they are very happy there and seem to be doing well.
The students I know at Elon were more competitive in high school, also happy with where they chose to attend college.</p>
<p>We met with my son's counselor yesterday and spoke about these two schools. She is not a fan of Elon and feels that it's just the "hot" school these days. She also felt that HP was a school to watch.</p>
<p>warrirboy, any reason that she doesn't like Elon? Is she concerned about her high school seniors not being admitted there? I think some GCs like to recommend safe bets to B/B+ kids (I don't know your son, so I am not personalizing the comment). I think it is popular for many reasons. Weather is great in the south, the pricing historically has been good for a private college, lots of individualized attention, beautiful campus, and many strong students matriculate there. I agree that High Point is a school to watch. It seems to have A+ marketing, IMO.</p>
<p>DB--thanks for this. Of course schools in VA welcome too! (I've had some contact with a NJ parent who is strongly considering Roanoke--sometimes you forget to look in your own back yard.)</p>
<p>Yes, the professors at Elon have been wonderful for my freshmen son; he is thriving in that environment.The fact that it has great weather and is a great bargain for a private school is just great, but secondary to the quality of education. Also, he has met many students who really want to do well. Funny, I have never thought of Elon as having the "hot school" label that so many give it. One of the best teachers when my three sons attended elementary school proudly graduated from Elon; as a matter of fact he is still there. He was hired as a 24 year old, and was always proud of the education he recieved at Elon. My oldest son , at Wake Forest, was told by the guidance counselor five years ago that Elon was very competitive, so I am thinking its "hotness" is here to stay!</p>
<p>D just got a mailing from High Point. Wow! Do they really have swimming pools in the dorms? That's what it looked like in one of the pictures. Sure, it's a safety for D, but I think it needs some looking into.</p>
<p>I think Elon can be called "hot" because it's filling a market segment without many options. That is, it's one of few schools I've seen in the 4,000 - 6,000 enrollement range, private under $35,000 total COA, and selective/challenging but not cut-throat. </p>
<p>There really aren't very many in that niche. TCNJ is the closest I've found, but it may not provide a "cultural" similarity to Elon. </p>
<p>Perhaps W&M or WFU match on size, but they're much harder to get into. Loyola of Maryland matches on class profile. But it's more expensive and 40% smaller. </p>
<p>If anybody knows of schools that match Elon on size, price, and student profile, please PM me. (Or just tell everyone.) It's what my kid is looking for.</p>
<p>Don't PM, but post, we are interested too! DougBetsy, I agree with you. Also, TCNJ is not in the same type of neighborhood as Elon. TCNJ has part residential and part industrial. It can be a tough school to get into from NJ (esp. if not in commuting distance, IMO). Loyola is a Jesuit institution, so it may not be for everyone.</p>
<p>There are no financial+size+quality (value) peers for Elon University from what Ive been able to identify, but the schools listed below come close in one way or another. These schools were on our list when we narrowed down selection to Elon University and received admission. Two thumbs up for Elon :) :) </p>
<p>Southern Methodist (TX)
Tulane University (LA)
Loyola Marymount University (CA)
Santa Clara University (CA)
University of San Diego (CA)
Quinniapiac University (CT)
Denison University (OH)
Trinity University (TX)
University of Richmond (VA)
University of Denver (CO)
Rider University (NJ)
Belmont University (TN)
Butler University (IN)
University of Missouri - Rolla
Boston University (MA)
Miami University Oxford (OH)
University of Miami (FL)</p>
<p>warriorboy: very curious to hear why your son's counselor is anti-Elon as well.......</p>
<p>3boymom, NJmom: did your sons apply ED or RD? huge diff in acceptance rate according to collegeboard....as would be expected, but just curious....</p>
<p>Elon has gotten "hot" in recent years because it has remade itself so dramatically and become something it didn't used to be. Did any of you hear of Elon as a great school when you were graduating fr. high sch. years ago? </p>
<p>As a lifelong NC resident, I can guess the answer is prob. "No". For those of us who grew up here, Elon was the "Fighting Christians", a small private school that kids with money went to if they could not get in UNC-CH or NC State and didn't want to go to any of the "directional" state u's. It wouldn't have been considered a big accomplishment back in the day to be admitted to Elon. </p>
<p>Elon has changed a lot. It has made great strides academically and great improvements to it's campus. It wasn't hot when just about anybody could go. Now that the competition is much stiffer, Elon is hot...maybe moreso for out of state than instate.</p>
<p>I can't think of any other sch. in NC that is like Elon. Davidson, WF and Duke are on a higher plane and all the other privates would (like High Point) be considered to be on a lower plane. A neighbor's kid who attended Elon in the late 90's (and graduated in 4 yrs. w/ a psyc. deg) was the exact kind of student that has been described as the typical High Point student on this thread. Maybe High Point will be the next "hot" school. Who knows?</p>
<p>Here are a few I researched , before D expanded her list to include larger schools.
Below has undergraduate enrollment and 25%tile for CR & Math , data from incoming freshman class of 2007.
Data may be flawed , I compiled on a spread sheet over last summer.</p>