<p>Not sure if I missed what state you live in, but UC Santa Cruz is a good school accepting students with less than perfect GPAs. It has the most beautiful campus I have ever seen in terms of natural surroundings. On one side there are trees and plantlife galore and a Redwood forest…on the other side you have the beach and stunning ocean views. Really, I’ve never seen anything like it for a nature lover’s dream. ( Personally, I loved the trees the most).</p>
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<p>Your child is not leading a revolution based on the ideals of Democracy. He is not signing his name to a document that makes him a traitor to the country he was born too. He’s not in Iraq or teaching the next generation. I think some perspective is called for here.</p>
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<p>I absolutely agree. I attribute to part of this to the ever lowering of expectations of boys or the flip side of that which is making excuses for boys refusal to do work they see as “beneath” them, be it due to their temperment or intellect.</p>
<p>I flatly refuse to reward my kid for not living up to his potential, no matter how inspiring a speech he gives. In life, people help those who are doing their best, including the scut work that no one likes. My son’s SAT score and natural intellect will not put a roof over his head, for that he needs a work ethic.</p>
<p>Kat, Beautifully written.</p>
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<p>kat, I have long admired you. Never more than right now. Thank you for being here.</p>
<p>I know that sometimes I sound like a broken record, but with all 3 S’s, a reluctance to do the “busy” work and show work was actually related to a processing issue and LD that made writing everything down much harder for them. It also showed up in not writing down the homework. Since they were very bright they could mask it with doing it in their head and doing well on tests. Until the work just got to be too much to keep in their heads. The long testing done with an educational tester picked up the issues and helped us get the help they needed to be successful. </p>
<p>S1 took what was needed and did well. S2 still decided he did not want to do what was necessary and took 3 years off school. He is back now doing everything required and doing well. S3 did not want to do what was necessary and failed. He has not yet decided to try again and is a waiter. Each took the knowledge and skills they were taught and did what they wanted with them. We did our part by helping them find the issues and get the teachers needed to develop the skills required to compensate. </p>
<p>So are you sure there are not any LD issues? .</p>
<p>kat, I should have forstered my children out to you.</p>
<p>I was a former bright slacker kid who graduated college with a 4.0. I went to large public schools for both college and grad. school. I’m sure my parents were frustrated with me…I was in a GT program as a youngster, skipped a grade, and started high school as a 12 year old. I can’t look back on high school and specifically pinpoint why I didn’t feel like working as hard as I felt like working in college. It could have been any number of reasons. I think because of this, I have a lot of confidence that my own kid will do fine. (Plus, he is way more active in ECs than I ever was…all I did was talk on the phone! Okay…I did have one major EC, but it wasn’t nearly as time consuming as his are.) I think we all know our kids best, and while it is always good to read of others’ experiences, one can’t take too much of it to heart. Some kids take longer to develop, some really do struggle, some have learning disabilities, some get into problems with drugs and alcohol…all of those kids may have the same GPA but completely different situations or personalities. Take the advice that helps you the most.</p>
<p>Are there any dual-enrollment options available to your son - he might be able to find more stimulating classes (no guarantee, but he could talk with profs before signing up) at a local community college? Or, would he be interested in taking control of his own education and homeschooling? There are many good online options, if that style of learning would work for him (although they can still involve tedious busy work, so, again, you’d have to choose carefully). For English, Duke TIP has a great online course with a teacher who individualizes for each student, and for math AoPS (artofproblemsolving.com) is a great resource. He would have to be very motivated to making independent learning work, however, or he could end up wasting the year.</p>
<p>I know kids like the OP’s son. They are undeniably very, very intelligent, but for whatever reasons do not do well with repetitive tasks, assignments that feel unproductive for them, staying organized about due dates, etc. My own kid is probably a bit less naturally gifted intellectually, but he has a good work ethic and it has served him well.</p>
<p>That said, I don’t think in all cases being the “perfect parent” who constantly impresses on a kid the value of a hard day’s work is going to make a cat into a dog… if you know what I mean. Cats go their own way, dogs labor and please. Some kids are just who they are.</p>
<p>That said, I think Northstarmom is right on the money. It will fall into place when it makes sense for <em>them</em>. Not everyone has to be a lawyer or a scientist or an astronaut. What matters is that kids find a way to feel productive and happy in the world. The capacity of doing scut work increases as the point of doing it becomes clearer. For some kids that happens long after high school. Sometimes long after college. There is so much heavy judgement in this thread.</p>
<p>As for public versus private colleges; my hard-working responsible son is at an elite private LAC. My also hard-working but more naturally “gifted” (that word makes me puke, by the way) daughter chose the flagship state u. honors college. She likes the larger environment, the more diverse student body, and the ‘real world’ ambiance. She did her first year of college at a regional state u, because she wanted to start college very early and I thought she was too young to leave home. Even at that school, she quickly learned where the great professors were, took challenging classes, and had a great year. She met other really smart students, got in involved in activities outside the classroom, and was very happy.</p>
<p>I agree with the earlier poster that said finding a school where your son can be happy and enjoy where he is, make friends, etc. is probably the best path. He’ll either do well there or he won’t, but it will be up to him. Maybe he’ll end up taking some time off and going back to school later on when he knows for himself what he wants to accomplish there. Nothing wrong with that. Life is long and full of twists and turns.</p>
<p>I don’t think the point is really going to be, so much, finding the perfect college though. I mean, finding something with a lot of nature seems important if it will make him feel happy there, but honestly if a student is looking for quality in their education they can find it almost anywhere. And if they’re not, it won’t matter that much where they go. </p>
<p>A kid I know had so-so grades, great test scores, and he got into an elite private college. He’s not doing very well there and may not last much longer if he doesn’t get his act together. Whatever issues caused him to be careless or dismissive of what was required of him in high school, those issues have naturally gone with him to college. Still, I’m pretty sure this kid will eventually sort all of this out. He may end up taking some time out and returning to a state school later in life, but when he does he’ll do great there.</p>
<p>Nearly all those smart cats become more dog-like as they get older and identify what they want to accomplish for themselves. And maybe some don’t and they end up living below what other people believe is their potential. Well, that is still up to them – it always was and it always will be. That’s really their business. They get to define happiness and success for themselves.</p>
<p>“There is so much heavy judgement in this thread.”</p>
<p>Yes there is, and without it CC would be just another social site. That said, I think posters in this thread have been constructive in their comments. No?</p>
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pugmadkete- I totally agree. Both my D & S are blessed with academic talent and have no learning issues, so they are both held to the same standards and expected to do their best.</p>
<p>kat-terrific post.</p>
<p>I will add just two things. To the OP, your son will be able to attend a good and challenging college. However, he is limiting his choices by the choices that he makes. Although his test scores are excellent, he cannot assume that those alone will get him into the schools he wants. In my local area, for example, last year there was a story in the paper of a student who was a National Merit Scholar (a boy), turned down by some of our state schools because his grades did not reflect his ability. He was another one who did not want to bother with what he considered “busy work” and that choice cost him.</p>
<p>Also, I have been in and out of the business world for many years and during the time I was in management I came across several young people who were offended that the work required in their entry level jobs was not always “interesting” or “challenging”. None of them did very well career-wise and they were all unhappy. I was by no means the smartest, most creative or most tech savvy person in my office, but I had a very successful career built on doing what needed to be done.</p>
<p>My reaction to the OP’s posts was not based upon any perceived lack of nagging but instead the sense that she viewed her son’s underachievement as a problem with the school rather than with her boy. The child is described as “very, very bright but not compliant with the minutiae and repetitive tasks of high school.” The problem is that teen-aged boys are are “unvarnished in their unwillingness to put effort into meaningless tasks.” In other words, since he is so smart he shouldn’t have to do homework like everyone else.</p>
<p>While I wish that I had been tougher on my kids when they were younger, by high school I took the view that while I was happy to give help if asked their grades, not mine. Never looked at Power School even once, never complained to a teacher. BUT (absent some real, diagnosed learning) if the child doesn’t produce, its on the child, with whatever tangible consequences follow. Don’t give me any of the “it’s not fair” tone of the OP’s posts. (BTW, I take that to be Northstarmom’s message as well).</p>
<p>Moreover, I have no confidence in the idea that it will probably all work out ok because the kid seems to be pretty bright. I’ve seen too many examples of people who scored a lot higher than 2100 who are not successful either in their own eyes or in the eyes of society.</p>
<p>Am I suggesting that this boy is likely to be a long-run failure? Not at all. But he needs to understand that in this life, you need to either pay the price or take the consequences. Nobody cares how bright you are unless you produce. Indeed “potential” is sometimes one of the saddest words in the English language.</p>
<p>Wow, I sure got the preachers out of the woodwork. I need some solid advice on where my kid should look next. The only words that have been helpful are from the one male who admitted that he really didn’t know why he didn’t work harder in high school. </p>
<p>There seems to be this notion that I am making excuses for my son. Far from it. I am trying to deal with reality. If a butt kick would fix all his challenges, then that I would figure out how to administer. </p>
<p>Instead we have repeatedly gone down the lecture/guilt trip road, the daily check in path, the post-it note reminder trail, the late night conversations walkways, and the cracking voice, teary defiance march to get a task completed. I strongly suspect that there are other parents that have done the same. What is truly heartbreaking is when I hear him lecturing another faltering teen on the importance of getting things done. That message is engraved on his heart – but I am starting to think this is all like potty training. Some master it early and some master it later – and a parent wearing combat boots can do a lot of damage whereas a little faith and patience and an eye out for paths that work can make the process workable for everyone involved. </p>
<p>For pete’s sake people. You get an adreniline rush with every righteous posting. Don’t let your addiction to the power rush make my day harder.</p>
<p>Yeah. It gets like that here sometimes with the lectures. :(</p>
<p>OK, let’s see … brilliant kid, middling grades and declining GPA trend, with history of deciding which assigned tasks are worthy of his time … looking for treed campus, courses that aren’t too easy, with a possible emphasis on writing. Marlboro College and College of the Atlantic have been mentioned. Emerson College has a strong writing department. Hampshire College might be a match. How about Lake Forest, Rollins and Stetson?</p>
<p>"Wow, I sure got the preachers out of the woodwork. I need some solid advice on where my kid should look next. The only words that have been helpful are from the one male who admitted that he really didn’t know why he didn’t work harder in high school. "</p>
<p>Huh? I wrote about having gifted 2 sons who were similar to yours, and I told about my experiences with both, including how after taking a gap year with Americorps and then going to college on his own dime until he proved himself to H and me, my younger son is doing wonderfully at Rollins, a beautiful liberal arts college outside of Orlando. Younger S definitely has been challenged at Rollins including having some freshman year psychology assignments that were similar to what was expected to me the first year of my doctoral program in clinical psychology. </p>
<p>Others have made suggestions about other colleges for your S to consider, and have shared their own thoughts and experiences including believing like I do that it’s not your fault: Your S is responsible for his behavior and will have to decide whether it’s worth it to do what he’s academically capable of doing. Just because people may not agree with your perspective doesn’t mean that they aren’t trying to be helpful and doesn’t mean that their advice isn’t useful.</p>
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<p>Happened in my D’s class. Really bright kid, but actions have consequences. I do wonder what ever happened to him…</p>
<p>Not considering kids with LDs, you take to college that same spirit and work ethic that you had in high school. Some kids think that they’ll change on a dime once they get to more intellectually stimulating environs. NSM’s personal experiences shows that that doesn’t always happen. </p>
<p>I applaud OP’s efforts to motivate her S to slog through the scut work of high school. But it is very hard to change a person unless he really wants to change…in many aspects of life.</p>
<p>Olymom, if the West coast is a possibility, you might want to look at Evergreen State in Olympia, Washington. It’s one of the Colleges That Change Lives. My son would like to visit it, but we’re on the East coast and haven’t made the trip yet. But it does sounds as if it might be a good match for your son (and mine).</p>
<p>Judgement? No. Hard won experience. Seeing red flags. Sharing observations.</p>
<p>I second the idea of testing for LD. That was the first step we took with S when this started with him in Sophomore year. He was not diagnosised with anything but it lead us in the right direction to get the help we all needed. </p>
<p>My son is bright and an excellent test taker (2310 SAT) and it is not unusual for kids like him to get bored/question/refuse to do the scut/repetitive work. This seems to be a problem especially for boys and I’ve seen too many of them fail in school and work. Sometimes, the parents take a certain rueful pride in it and your comparission to the founding fathers was a red flag (& I know you meant it humorously.) </p>
<p>Most of them eventually hit a wall, as some have said it can be in college and I’ve seen it flight school as well. These young men want something but cannot get there. We didn’t invest all of this time to get our son to actually do what is asked of him because he needed it to learn the academic task at hand. We did it so that when he decides what his passion is, he’ll be ready to do what it takes to get there with a good attitude that will increase his odds of succeeding.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I do not think this is your fault either. But I do think it is an issue that just going to college will most likely not solve. My S is taking half his senior year classes at the local CC because he wants to be challenged. But he found out the information and made the arrangments. Just 18 months ago he most likely would have done nothing but complain or refuse to do work he considered boring. He’s learning that an interesting life is his responsibility. That’s what we wanted.</p>
<p>I also wanted to add that we parent gently. Be it potty training or the adversity to work he found boring, we’ve never rushed him or used “combat boots.” I absolutely believe in kids blooming in their own time and avoiding power struggles. However, I also believe in solid expectations and logical consequences. </p>
<p>We spent two miserable weeks his Sophomore year trying to get him to reverse his downward trend. Then we went to a professional. I grew up in a home that involved a lot of lecturing and tears, I felt misunderstood and I suspected my son did as well. </p>
<p>There was not one “ah-ha” moment for him but rather a series of small steps that led him to the conclusion that, basically, everyone in our family has a job and we all do ours to the best of our ability. Sometimes “our best” is pretty darn terrible but we slog through it. We don’t get to pick and choose among our tasks at work, neither does he.</p>