If you are not aiming at the expensive elite universities, you need to have a frank and clear conversation with your daughter. She will need to have confidence in her choices, because it seems clear the a great number of her peers will be aiming for a place in one of the top privates. She will need to know that a UC can be as good as where her peers will be going. Emphasize that what matters is what you do in college, not where you go to college.
A friend of mine just survived her daughter’s senior year, and it wasn’t pretty. So much pressure when all your classmates are applying without care about cost.
If your daughter was in public school, you wouldn’t be thearing nonsense like that.
For competitive admissions, then it is important that the student profile “matches” their proposed major – so it is important for prospective STEM majors to take appropriate STEM AP courses, and have strong test scores and grades in math & science courses. Ideally the kid also participated in STEM-related EC’s – for example, a math team or science club.
I am wondering whether your daughter has chosen a private school that is more humanities-focused and is weaker in terms of its math and science offerings. Perhaps the counselor’s comments are a refelction of the school’s own limitation – do they offer a full array of AP Physics and AP Calc courses? Her comment may reflect a lack of on-campus opportunities for STEM-oriented students. “Private” doesn’t always mean better.
For ultracompetitive admissions (like Ivies), students don’t necessarily have internships, but many participate in activities like math or science competitions – and it could be that the private school doesn’t have the resources to support those fully. Sometimes “resources” depend on number of students, not just how much money their parents are paying - so if it is a smaller high school, that could be a limitation. So in that case, the counselor would be looking for “internship” because “Robotics Team” isn’t an option.
I do think that as your daughter is only a 9th grader, all she should be worrying about this year is her grades. Make sure you are aware of the UC A-G course requirements for admission – I don’t know if it is a problem nowadays, but I remember years ago that some California private schools weren’t adequately preparing their students for UC admissions when UC first instituted the arts requirements (so STEM kids who were shut out of UC admissions because they hadn’t taken a year’s worth of visual or performing art classes). See http://ucop.edu/agguide/a-g-requirements/
And no, it is not your job to form connections to find your daughter an internship in any case.
I see the kind of arrogance shown by the counselor a lot. It’s meant to be off putting so that they can deflect blame later.
Honestly, IMHO, the best approach is twofold 1) educate yourself as to what is needed in terms of testing for various schools so that you understand the process, and 2) keep yourself and your kid sane by not making their life all about getting into college. Your kids will get into college. Encourage them to love the learning not the grade. Have them foster genuine interests. As for grades, they should do their best, but what will be will be and will be ok by definition.
There are good colleges for every GPA and stats profile to get them where they need to go.
DS had a job (manual labor ish) in the summer and weekends. No internships or fancy camps. The AOS seemed to find that very interesting. Sure, if your kid can get an internship, great! But she can learn valuable lessons from pretty much anything if she’s paying attention.
Honestly, a job at best buy would be a great way to learn firsthand how people interact with technology, and I can see value in that!
For many colleges you do not apply by major, so the GC comment doesn’t even apply in a lot of cases.
If I were you, I would set up an appointment with her or send an email and ask for clarity on the internship comment. Perhaps she meant some type of science program outside of school. Ask for specific examples of internships or programs that students were involved in.
I honestly think it is strange that internships were put forward as the key to successful college admissions. That seems like a cart before the horse scenario. I would be far more concerned about what her math and science course sequences are going to be in high school. Success in physics is going to be dependent on rock solid math skills. I would start with what are her math skills right now as a 9th grader. Is she getting the math foundation right now that will support more advanced math skills? How about physics in high school? What level of physics is being offered? Physics 1&2? Physics C?
Fwiw, there are a lot of things she can do that don’t require “connections” and pursuing internships. She can pursue math and physics competitions like AMC and the f=ma tests. There are math camps that offer need-based scholarships like MathCamp. There are physics camps that are free like PAN http://www.jinaweb.org/outreach/PAN/ SSP offers need-based scholarships. http://www.summerscience.org Astronomy Camps is not super expensive in terms of summer camps. http://www.astronomycamp.org/index.html (Astronomy Camp would be my suggestion to pursue first as it is not super competitive. The other 2 are. SSP is typically targeted for summer between jr and sr yr. But if accepted, they are awesome experiences.)
AoPS, in addition to offering classes, has forums for kids to talk about math and physics topics and is a great resource for understanding olympiads and math/science competitions. https://artofproblemsolving.com/community
@ccprofandmomof2 , you have plenty of time to learn what you need to know, so you’re not behind or missing anything. Your daughter is only a freshman. Right now, you need to make sure she is taking classes at the appropriate level and has time to do her homework well. That’s it. The other stuff will follow.
Your GC told that story only as a cautionary tale to tailor your college lists well. It wasn’t the lack of internships that shut the kid out, it was the fact that he/she only applied to reach schools. GCs these days are nervous about parents whose ambition for their children outstrips their child’s talent or resume, or who think that their brilliant kid is the only one–you know, the Stanford-or-bust parents.
If your child is an excellent student, it’s easy to dream big. You see only your child’s accomplishments and don’t really have a sense of how other kids compare, so you think, wow, my kid really should be shooting for the Ivies. It is this that the counselor was warning parents to guard against. A valedictorian with perfect SATs isn’t a shoo-in anywhere, although she is certainly competitive everywhere.
When the time comes, your daughter should have a list of easy, moderate, and difficult to get into schools, and she will be fine.
Of course your D may not take this path, but my D was a physics major in college and is now a Physics PhD student. She went to one of the top Physics undergrad programs in the country, and had no internships as an undergrad. She had some science related ECs (like FIRST Robotics, programming club, insect collection she won ribbons for st our county & state fairs). But no formal research or internship in HS. Don’t let this counselor stress you out. Come see us instead.
This. Very much this. We were fortunate to have very good individual counselors for both our kids, although I understand where you are coming from because the head of the guidance department at my daughter’s school (who did all the presentations/sent home all the information) really came up with some head scratchers. I would urge you to remember that statements don’t become true simply because they are made from a podium, and everyone has their own biases and preferences. If something strikes you as dissonant, invest the time and do some research. This is a very good source, but like most internet sources you need to put in the effort to figure out which voices to heed on any given topic. There are a number of regular posters here who clearly spend a good amount of time in the college admissions thicket, and I personally am very grateful for the knowledge I stole from them over the past 4-5 years. Another great source of basic info are the college’s web sites themselves. Lots of schools put out information as to what types of things are required, what kinds of things are recommended, etc. Once you get some knowledge under your belt, the common data set for each school that publishes it is a tremendous resource for comparing how various colleges weight certain factors. Parents of kids from your daughter’s high school with kids attending colleges you are considering can also be a great source of information.
Personally, I have two kids, both STEM majors or prospective majors (the oldest is a declared bio/chem guy, the youngest is a freshman planning on neuro science). Both are at very good schools. Neither had a science-y internship in high school. The older kid worked landscaping in the summer when he wasn’t running into people at football camp, and the younger one waited tables and worked at theater camps for little kids when she wasn’t performing or marching in the band. My daughter’s best friend is a prospective physics major at a well regarded LAC. Her only jobs in high school was working with my daughter at theater camp and banging the cash register at the local drug store. Come to think of it, the only kid in either of my kids’ friend groups who I know had a legit “science” internship (worked at the local NASA facility) is now a classics major, lol.
And you are paying private school tuition for this type of counseling? (I’d ask for a refund.)
fwiw: Physics majors better have strong math skills, as evidenced by SAT and SAT II-M. Physics at some of the UC’s is offered in the College of Arts and Sciences where intended major is NOT an admissions criteria.
Words of wisdom, indeed. Nice to hear you can be in the band and still be a science kid! There’s this sense that you have to be completely into one thing to get into a decent college. My daughter does debate as her main EC, because she loves it, is learning a lot, and that’s where all the more intellectually-inclined kids have a chance to socialize. I guess it’s just hard for me to understand how a straight A kid from a pretty amazing high school has to think of her public state university as a “reach” school. When I was a kid, if you had straight As from a relatively decent public high school, you could get into the top-tier state public university. There wasn’t any anxiety about this process whatsoever. I only applied to one school, I got into the honors college at that school, and I had a great experience. The times have definitely changed, and it’s hard to sort out the hysteria/marketing from the reality. You are all so helpful!!!
It seems difficult to imagine that an internship is “required” but if the OPs daughter goes to a very competitive high school where all of the serious STEM kids are doing internships, yet the OPs daughter does not, would that not put her at a significant disadvantage in competitive admissions?
Certainly, at my DS high school, an internship in STEM is not required but no one does them so he could still stand out among his peers.
Wait until they are in college to begin internships. They weren’t so necessary in the stone ages, when I went to college, but now they are relevant for experience, learning if that is the right direction,mans networking.
I think your daughter 's counselor has a case of simian perspicacity. My son, who holds a Physics degree from Princeton, didn’t do any internships or math/science competitions in high school.
@ccprofandmomof2 We don’t the enter into the college application process with any sense of hysteria. We have a very large family with kids whose interests and abilities run the gamut. We are the antithesis of tiger parents and our kids progress academically based on their ability vs any pressure excel beyond expectations. Some of our kids are good but more average students. For example, our oldest daughter is an COTA (certified occupational therapy assistant), a career that she loves and is a perfect fit for her personality.
Some of our kids are quite advanced. (A couple have entered college taking 400 level courses their freshman yr in areas of interests.) My advanced kids have tended to automatically turn toward more academic pursuits. My physicsgeek ds was one of those. He would spend hrs watching the GC lectures for fun bc they intrigued him. He knew in8th grade he wanted to pursue physics and is currently a college sr in the process of applying to grad school for physics.
Even with our advanced kids there isn’t any hyper anxiety. We can in no way shape or form pay our expected familial contribution (and not bc we don’t value education or squander money as is being implied in a current thread). Our kids apply to a range of schools offering excellent merit scholarships. We visit the schools and narrow base on depts that fit their needs. Honestly, our kids have ended the season with multiple good options, both in terms of opportunities offered at the schools and financial affordability.
The elite or “future is limited” mentality does not have to control the college application process. Kids don’t have to hyper-focus on college admissions throughout high school to attend a good school and end up with an excellent career. They can just be who they are. Our oldest ds attended a very avg public university and has a fabulous career as a chemE. He was hired alongside graduates of top schools and is promoted based on job performance. Our physicsgeek attends Alabama. It hasn’t hampered him. He had 2 excellent REU experiences at top schools. He has participated in UG research since freshman yr. He has taken several grad level courses as an UG and has maintained a 4.0. He got an extremely high physics GRE score. And he attended on full scholarship. I am sure his grad applications will be reviewed based on his personal accomplishments and not automatically recycled bc his diploma stats UA.
It is a decision to limit your view of successful college admissions as a only handful of schools.
California has a large population. The large state universities are proportionately smaller relative to the population than the state universities in many other states, which results in a higher level of admissions competition for the most desired ones. In size relative to the state population, the entire UC system (not just UCB and/or UCLA) would be more comparable to other states’ flagships, and getting into one of the UCs (including UCM, UCR, etc.) is probably comparably difficult to many other states’ flagships, even if getting into the most desired ones is more difficult.
However, even the most desired ones are not “reach for everyone” schools, except for some specific highly desired majors (e.g. computer science in the engineering division). See reply #12 of this thread and the linked thread – frosh applicants in the top GPA range for 2016 had 42% and 54% admit rates to UCB and UCLA respectively. Many would consider this to be high match, not reach. Such applicants had 87% to 98% admit rates to all other UCs – many would consider this to be low match to as close to safety as one can get without an explicit automatic admission policy.
Right now you are big scale planning. Is she taking the courses needed to get into a UC? Does she have enough activities, or a job, or a sport that keeps her involved? If you are on a vacation, is there a college nearby that she might be interested in and can you spare an hour to see it?
Next year, plan on taking an ACT or SAT test. Sign up for a program if she’s interested. Junior year, more serious about the college thing, start making lists, etc. Big picture now, more focused as high school moves on.
One thing I’d recommend (and of course my kids didn’t do it) is to keep a notebook of all the activities and awards she receives. Include the contact information of coaches, advisers, organizations. When filling out applications, they asked for all these things and my kids had to scramble to find the information or even remember an award received as a freshman. Also set up an email just for college stuff. Use it for the SAT/ACT registrations and all the information will go to the same place - NOT your email! You won’t believe how much junk mail she’ll get.
It seems very overwhelming initially. But you are starting early. First of all there is now the common application. It wasn’t around back in the day but it sure makes the whole process much easier. My advice would be to have your D participate in extra curricular activities she loves, make sure to include some community service and take the most rigorous course load she can comfortable handle. During freshman and sophomore years we took our D to colleges close by to get the feel for what type of school she preferred. You don’t even have to travel far from most places to see the different types of schools. My D ruled out a large University from the get go. Next year have her take the PSAT (as sophomore) and see how it goes. Junior year is about PSAT, beginning the SAT, making connections with teachers for recommendations and taking college visits if its in the budget. Junior summer study for SAT or ACT if taking again. When common application opens she can start essays. Nice to have some done before school starts. Senior year testing wraps up and applications start. We are in that phase now. Figure out your budget. Run net price calculators on college websites, look for schools that also offer merit scholarships. Make the list. Start the common application. Broken down by year the steps are not so overwhelming. My D has not done any internships. As a family we bought an dilapidated but seaworthy old 40 ft boat and have been restoring it over the years. My D can work on a diesel engine, and pilot a large boat in international waters. She spent her summers doing this and also playing her cello in local camps and busking at farmers markets for cash when not on the water. These adventures make for much better life skills than any internship would and also I might add make great essay topics. Tell your D to do what she loves and do have adventures in the summer as a family even if they are simple.
While I certainly agree you don’t NEED an internship in HS, there are ways to get them and they don’t necessarily involve you making a ton of personal connections or writing big checks. Look into summer programs offered by museums. Lots of them have robust programs for HS students. Another way to build a STEM resume is to look into summer jobs with a STEM focus. For example, my dd was a counselor at a STEM day camp for kids.
Finally, if the counselor says internships are important then the counselor ought to have some info on how to secure said internships. You might send an email and say: “I was so interested in the comment you made about internships. I’d love to look into this for dd. Can you recommend any resources?”
