High School Senior needs help picking undergraduate schools?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I am a high school senior looking at some undergraduate schools. Would it be better to go to a state school and get a 4.0, or go to a top 20 undergraduate program(which normally have a 80 percent medical school acceptance rate) and have a slightly lower gpa?</p>

<p>I don't plan on majoring in a science, but will take the basic pre-med classes. I am just afraid that by going to a top 20 undergraduate program, my gpa may be lower for medical school. ( I was looking into Emory, JHU, Northwestern, Cornell, and Vanderbilt as undergraduate options) -anyone know of the grade inflation at these schools? I also heard some of these schools try to screen pre-med kids, what does this mean?</p>

<p>How would HMS, WashU, JHU, Baylor and other top medical schools look at an undergraduate with a lower gpa from a top 20 school than a undergrad from a state school?</p>

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<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/377780-premed-forum-faqs-read-first.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/377780-premed-forum-faqs-read-first.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Cornell is notorious for grade deflation. Students who have never seen a B in their lives get Cs. Of all the schools you list your GPA will be hardest to maintain there.</p>

<p>You did not tell us what state schools you are looking at in comparison to the privates on your list. You also are forgetting that (or not paying attention to) the cost of attending the schools on your list is far greater than a good public school and the cost of attending the med schools on your list is very high and getting more expensive each year. If you have the option of a good public university you can still get a great education and accrue far less debt BEFORE taking on the huge expense and debt of med school. Without knowing your options, its difficult to to draw real conclusions.</p>

<p>My son turned down Yale, Wash U, Stanford and others to accept a Morehead Scholarship at UNC. He got a great education, had an amazing undergrad experience including the basketball team winning the NCAAs his freshman year and was not turned down at any med school he applied to. He too was not a science major. He's now an MS1 at a top ten med school and he has three close friends he graduated with who are now also MS1s at HMS, JHU, and UT Southwestern. UNC certainly did not hurt any of their chances for top med schools.</p>

<p>In summary, there is no shortcut or secret for success. You will need to do well wherever you are and score exceptionally well on the MCATs (along with many other things) for the schools you list. if you can also keep the cost of your undergrad education down you will benefit in the long run especially with the long time you will experience without any real income during and AFTER getting your MD.</p>

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<p>^ Thanks for the help. I was looking at Texas A &M because I am instate. Do you know if there is grade deflation for all Cornell students or just ones in certain colleges within Cornell. I heard there was grade deflation for Engineering students, but not of any other schools within Cornell. I plan on majoring in a social studies major....</p>

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<p>There's actually quite a bit of grade inflation at Cornell (average GPA in the 3.3-3.4 range). The grading is in line with other top schools.</p>

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<p>^ Is this for all Cornell students or the ones in the Arts and Sciences.....Could the grade inflation be due to the number of high achieving students? </p>

<p>*Is there any pre-med screening involoved at any of the schools I mentioned above? Could be resposnible for the attrition rate of pre-med students at these schools...</p>

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<p>National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities
GPA info on tons of schools here. It doesn't go into detail by colleges within universities or anything.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
^ Is this for all Cornell students or the ones in the Arts and Sciences.....Could the grade inflation be due to the number of high achieving students?</p>

<p>*Is there any pre-med screening involoved at any of the schools I mentioned above? Could be resposnible for the attrition rate of pre-med students at these schools...

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</p>

<p>That's school-wide. There's not much difference in grading b/w the different schools (engineering's probably the lowest at around 3.2). And the grade inflation has nothing to do with the quality of students. The professors can set the average grades at whatever they want. It's usually a B+ (hence the average of 3.3). </p>

<p>Out of the top schools you named, JHU screens its applicants.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the help.</p>

<p>Anyone know if the attrition rate at these schools due more to students just changing career goals or more because they can't make the gpa/mcat scores necessary for A medical school...?</p>

<p>I was a little suprised that Cornell's B+ is only a 3.3, I was expecting it to be at least a 3.6 for a B+........</p>

<p>I was wondering what makes these top schools have such high pre-med acceptance rates? Is it because the academic caliber of these students is really strong, or there are some "advantages" (ie prestige, grade inflation, great pre-med advisors)?</p>

<p>^ I am only asking because I have seen kids with 1450-1460s on the old sat go to a state school, (Texas A&M) and not get into any medical school. This could be because they just lost focus or state school undergraduate applicants must "prove" more to medical school admissions committes, idk......</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I was a little suprised that Cornell's B+ is only a 3.3, I was expecting it to be at least a 3.6 for a B+.......

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</p>

<p>That's standard at most schools. Given that an A is 4.0, a B is 3.0, and you've got to squeeze B+ and A- in there somewhere, it'd be a little ridiculous to have a B+ be 3.6.</p>

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<p>At Hopkins, A= 4.0, A-=3.7, B+=3.3, etc.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
it'd be a little ridiculous to have a B+ be 3.6.

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<p>Depends on the school. At my school, A=4.0 B+=3.5 B=3.0 and so on. However, the faculty senate decided to introduce minus grading system and starting this summer we will have A=4.0 A-=3.67 B+=3.33 B=3.0</p>

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<p>^ WantIvy, what does it mean by johns hopkins screening pre-med students..I hear the introductory sciences classes are seriously grade deflated....</p>

<p>I guess I am just intimdated by so many smart kids that go to these schools...How different is in classes from high school when most of the kids in your classes have the same sat scores or higher than you, (1500+ reading and math). The thought of going to a school full of so many high achieving students is nerve racking...Anyone have any experience of going to one of the schools I am talking about for undergraduate work? What is it like in terms of how rigorous the course work is, because the professors probably know that most of the kids have at least 1500/1600 sat scores...do they teach on a higer level than at schools where the kids have a 1500/2400 sat scores?....</p>

<p>I have seen plenty of people go to state undergraduate schools, and can't get into any U.S. medical school. I just don't want to be like them. Thats why I was hoping that by going to a strong prestigous undergraduate program, I may be albe to get into at least 1 U.S. medical school...What is it about these undergraduate programs that makes them have such high medical school acceptance rates? </p>

<p>^ I interviewed with a Columbia alumni(Yes, I applied to Columbia, too bad I don't stand any chance), and he had gone to Johns Hopkins Medical School...he told me that the reason Columbia has such a high pre-med acceptance rate, is because of dedicated advisors that make sure you have everything you need to get into medical school.....</p>

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<p>
[quote]
</p>

<p>Anyone know if the attrition rate at these schools due more to students just changing career goals or more because they can't make the gpa/mcat scores necessary for A medical school...?

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</p>

<p>Both. Many students realize, after entering college, that medicine is a declining profession with decreasing salaries, increasing malpractice premiums, a failing health system, and heavy restrictions on how you practice. Of course, there are other students who simply can't cut it in terms of the academics. There tend to be more of those people at state schools. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I was a little suprised that Cornell's B+ is only a 3.3, I was expecting it to be at least a 3.6 for a B+........

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<p>B+=3.3 for med school purposes. It doesn't matter how the college calculates it. All that matter is how AMCAS (the application service for med school) calculates your GPA.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I was wondering what makes these top schools have such high pre-med acceptance rates? Is it because the academic caliber of these students is really strong, or there are some "advantages" (ie prestige, grade inflation, great pre-med advisors)?

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</p>

<p>The success rates of top schools mainly have to do with the caliber of students they enroll but these top schools provide intrinsic advantages as well (higher caliber of advising, grade inflation, more research opportunities, smaller classes, better academic environments, etc.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
I guess I am just intimdated by so many smart kids that go to these schools...How different is in classes from high school when most of the kids in your classes have the same sat scores or higher than you, (1500+ reading and math). The thought of going to a school full of so many high achieving students is nerve racking...Anyone have any experience of going to one of the schools I am talking about for undergraduate work? What is it like in terms of how rigorous the course work is, because the professors probably know that most of the kids have at least 1500/1600 sat scores...do they teach on a higer level than at schools where the kids have a 1500/2400 sat scores?....

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<p>The level of education is about the same (same textbooks, same difficulty of tests, etc.) The difference is in the average scores on tests. It's not usual to see means of 30-50% on tests in state school. Means on tests given at top colleges tend to be higher (50-70% range) because students are smarter. This can make it more difficult to attain high grades at top schools but that's balanced by grade inflation. In the end, your grades will work out about the same.</p>

<p>In general, college is much easier than med school. If you have trouble handling college coursework and dealing with smart students, you're going to have even more trouble in med school where the students are even smarter and the coursework even more demanding. In general, it's not too bad. At Cornell, I put in around 1-2 hours of studying a night. I do around 3-4 hours/night in med school. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I have seen plenty of people go to state undergraduate schools, and can't get into any U.S. medical school. I just don't want to be like them. Thats why I was hoping that by going to a strong prestigous undergraduate program, I may be albe to get into at least 1 U.S. medical school...What is it about these undergraduate programs that makes them have such high medical school acceptance rates?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just because Harvard has a 90% acceptance rate to med school, it doesn't mean you have a 90% chance of getting into med school simply by virtue of the fact you are a Harvard student. Nor does it mean you will have to do less work than if you go to your state school. It just means that the type of student who is accepted into Harvard is the type of student who is WILLING to put in the work that's required to get into med school. </p>

<p>
[quote]
^ I interviewed with a Columbia alumni(Yes, I applied to Columbia, too bad I don't stand any chance), and he had gone to Johns Hopkins Medical School...he told me that the reason Columbia has such a high pre-med acceptance rate, is because of dedicated advisors that make sure you have everything you need to get into medical school.....

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</p>

<p>This tends to be true at top colleges (which are smaller) and liberal arts colleges. It's less true at state schools simply because state schools have more students and they can't keep track of everyone. However, generally, you shouldn't need a babysitter. You should be on top of your own stuff. This skill is especially important in med school where it's very easy to fall behind.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the useful info...</p>

<p>Any other thoughts...</p>

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<p>Bump.......</p>