High School Student with Medical Ambitions; Where to Go from Here?

College Search & Selection
1

Hey Guys. Just a warning this is going to be pretty long. I’m gonna briefly explain my goals for the future, my strength as an applicant, and finally outline my options before asking for some advice. If you don’t want to read it all just skip to the end.

I’m an upcoming Senior in High School starting on the College Application process. Currently, I plan to pursue a Medical career and thus aim to tailor my application toward a path advantageous to such pursuits.

As an applicant, I’m decently strong. My weakest area is my GPA, I got 2 Bs in non-STEM courses (French Honors and APUSH) which is around a 3.9 UW GPA. My courseload was the hardest offered at my high school, a large (~2000 students) competitive public school, with currently 4Hs and 4APs taken and 6APs scheduled for Senior year. My standardized test scores are fairly strong (SAT1 2350, SAT2s 750+, likely all 5s on APs). The two teachers I intend to ask for my rec letters know me fairly well. My English teacher understands how I balance not only humanities and STEM (I enjoyed her class and tried pretty hard), but also my life while my Science teacher I’ve had for 3 years, albeit compassionate to basically everyone (too nice almost!), has seen me grow from a Sophomore to a Senior and had me personally TA for her for 2 years (I plan to TA for her AP class next year). As for ECs, I have the standard ECs such as club officerships, hospital volunteering, and athletics. In addition to these ordinary ECs I also have some more unique activities such as my SIMR internship over the summer, finalist placing in an international science competition (not intel-level prestigious but still prominent), and summer program shadowing an anesthesiologist in the operating room during actual patient surgeries and consultations. Finally, my writing is decently strong and I hope to present myself both unorthodoxly yet completely display my best qualities.

As I see it, here are my options and my chances.

  1. Pursue a rigorous UC education, apply for medical school under the pressure of UC grade-deflation and competition: I have a fairly solid chance at UCs like SD, LA, and Berkeley and the low tuition is a plus for my family especially with future Med School costs.
  2. Pursue a liberal/private school education, apply for medical school under less pressure and in more cooperative environments: Here I have a lower shot at prestigious privates such as Stanford, Brown, JHU, and UPenn and a better shot at less prestigious schools and privates. The downside is a much higher tuition, location, and possibly inferior education at a lower prestige private.
  3. Pursue a BS/MD program, guarantee placement in Medical School after BS: Probably the best option and yet also the most improbable one for me. I don’t see myself being very competitive applying to such a program not only stats wise (GPA), but also passion wise. I don’t think I honestly CAN convince someone I am 100% committed to a medical career with my current ECs and passions, nor could I convince myself to be honest. I can’t imagine myself doing anything else in 10 years, but at the same time I am only a high school Senior whose achievements are pretty mediocre when compared to these applicants. Hell I know kids in my own schools with 4.0s or close that are published, Intel/Siemens finalists, or founders of large non-profits/companies that have aided impoverished countries/peoples. Compared to these kids I honestly have not established myself toward a medical path.

So TLDR, I have a decent shot at UCs and a lower shot at privates, with the least chances of making a BS/MD program and want to pursue the best path toward a medical career. While UCs are close to home, cheap, and provide quality education, they are also highly competitive and rigorous, possibly impeding my Med School application. While privates offer more cooperative environments, allow students more freedom, and improve my chances of admission into a medical school, they are further from home, very expensive, and probably harder for me to be accepted into. What colleges should I apply to and what actions should I take?

2

I have to tell you, I really enjoyed reading your post and you are right about the costs but your assumption about private schools being less rigorous and less competitive than UC’s is sort of odd. How would you know? What exactly is your definition of a “lower prestige private”?

In your point 2) are you suggesting Stanford, Brown, JHU and U Penn will have less pressure than a UC?

3

I read the tldr. Since you are in CA you should apply widely in the UC system because that is deadline in Nov and you need to have those in, in case other options don’t work out. One application=many colleges. You will have some time to see where you get in and then decide. Don’t overlook UCR because of new med program and the med advising there. Then pick the privates that you like and can afford.

4

@BatesParents2019 I guess what I’m trying to say is that a private school would offer a more cooperative environment and enable me to achieve a higher GPA more easily thus bolstering my chances of being admit to med school whereas the large class sizes and difficult grading under the UC system would hurt my chances unless I make significant sacrifices to excel.

I think a high prestige would be HYPS, harvard, princetown, stanford etc while medium is like Brown and UPenn, JHU. I’m not too sure what a lower prestige would be to be honest and that’s one of the things I’m trying to discover from this thread.

5

@BrownParent I definitely plan on applying to both UCs and many privates. I’m just asking for which I should attend (and also what privates are good for pre-med considering my goals and situation) if I get accepted to both.

6

People from the East Coast like me would probably caution you on that assumption. We have a lot more private schools ranging from average to very elite all in a rather small area, so many parents have had direct experience with them. We would probably disagree with your ranking of those schools or that private schools will somehow lead to higher grades.

A few years back a friend of mine who is a doctor would not allow his son to go to Holy Cross on the pre-med track due to the workload. His son went to Dartmouth instead.

7

@Skarlo. I wouldn’t worry about which schools to attend until you have your acceptances in hand. School visits would be the best way to get the “feel” for the school and if it will be the right choice. Apply, get your acceptances and then take a visit, check out the medical advising programs, talk to current students etc… then make your decision.

8

It’s a bit premature to be deciding what college you want to attend before you even apply. Worry about your applications first, and then after you know what your options are, worry about which one you want to attend.

Also, don’t assume that it will be easier to get a high GPA at a private school/LAC than at a UC. GPA depends on a lot of different factors, but it is very dependent on factors that don’t change much between schools, such as the student’s ability and work ethic, other commitments (like work or extracurriculars), and major (or more likely, your aptitude and preparation for your major courses). Don’t go to a certain school because you think you’ll get a higher GPA because that may not be true at all, and don’t put so much emphasis on future GPA in your consideration for what school to attend.

It’s fine to consider that you’d like to go to medical school after college, but look at things like what support systems are available for pre-med students, what does the curriculum look like for your major, what is the school’s track records for sending students to medical school (if you can find information on this), etc. And of course, college is more than just your admissions ticket to medical school. Don’t forget to look at other things that may be important to you as well, such as the campus, tuition/financial aid, location, breadth of options available, etc.

I think these are also very wide-sweeping assumptions. I went to UCSD and had tons of pre-med majors in my classes (I was a biochemistry major), and I didn’t think it was highly competitive at all. Students were always willing to help each other, and nothing bonds you quite like trying to survive a difficult course. All of the students I knew who were pre-meds got into medical school on their first cycle (a couple even stayed at UCSD for medical school). I had friends at UC Berkeley and UCLA and they had similar experiences (but they were engineering majors). There was one time one of my friends at UCLA was taking what was notoriously thought of as the hardest class for her major. She was really struggling and ended up starting a facebook group for students to join and help each other out. Most of the class jumped at the opportunity to ask and answer each others questions and arranged study groups throughout the quarter. There will always be bad eggs, but for the most part, students are willing to help each other out.

Also, I’m not sure what you mean by private schools allowing students more freedom. Some schools can have very restrictive GE requirements, while others might be more broad. Smaller schools might also have more restrictive major and course selections just because they don’t have the population of students to support it. One of my friends at Rice said she felt restricted with the courses she could take when compared to the wider offerings of the UC I went to, but it was likely because her school was much smaller so there just wasn’t support for the extra electives. Bigger schools might also have more options in terms of extracurricular opportunities than a smaller school.

Instead of making broad generalizations about schools, perhaps you should look a little more closely at what each school offers. You might find that they are all very similar, or you might find that they are very different, but you won’t know if you write off an entire category of schools based on assumptions.

9

Way too much overthinking here.
Go to a college; any college, study something you enjoy, save time for life, take the medical school prerequisites.
Medical school is enough of a grind and residency even more so. Have some fun.

10

@JustOneDad So I should blindly go to “any college” without considering which college is best for me, offering me the most opportunities; is that what you are suggesting? I’m sorry that’s stupid, there’s no such thing as overthinking if it’s related to one’s future. If instead you mean that in the end, it really doesn’t matter what college you go to and that personal effort is what counts, then I suppose you have a stronger point there.

@BatesParent2019 I don’t exact see what your main point is. Do you mean I shouldn’t generalize an area’s colleges so simplistically? I can agree with that for sure. What colleges do you think would be suited for me then specifically if you are more aware of the specifics?

@baktrax It’s easy to bash on my mindset with high emphasis on GPA rigor, but how I see it is your GPA plays a MAJOR role in your admission chances to a medical school, so why should I not consider it as a significant factor in choosing a college? I’d agree that it’s a very complex issue however, and that multiple factors affects a student’s performance at various colleges. Overall I found your suggestions helpful and will definitely try to take a holistic view in making my decision once it is time.

@Gumbymom Yeah I’ve discussed with my friends as well, and they’d agree. Worry about the issue later AFTER acceptances. I suppose it seems a little pretentious/cocky to consider such things now. I apologize if I’ve come off as such, I mostly want to consider the future and plan ahead even though I haven’t been admitted yet so I can pursue the best outcome, that’s all.

Thank you for your advice everyone!

11

I didn’t think that someone considering medicine would be so dull as to just “blindly” go to any college, but if you need to be told, I’ll say pick one you think you will like. Students from hundreds if not thousands of different colleges get admitted to medical school each year.

12

GPA does play a major role in your admission to medical school, but you’re basing this prediction on… nothing. I guess you could look at the average GPA of students at that school? But even then, the average GPA is pretty meaningless and isn’t predictive of what your GPA will be. You’re guessing at which school you would be able to get a higher GPA at. Do you honestly think that there will be less pressure and it will be easier to get a higher GPA at Stanford than at Berkeley? And what are you think will be this higher GPA, anyway? Do you think you’ll be able to get a 4.0 at an LAC but a 3.0 at a UC? Because I doubt the spread will be that great. If you work hard and take classes that you’re well suited for, then you’ll be able to get a good GPA at any school you are accepted to. If you’re really trying to get the highest GPA, then you perhaps you should consider going to a school where your stats would put you at the top of the class. This is still no guarantee, but it will give you a better shot in the dark than considering private vs. public.

There is also much more to a medical school application than your GPA. Let’s say you go to a school where you get a higher GPA, but there’s no nearby hospital and very sparse research opportunities. Another student goes to a large research university near a major academic medical center. They get much more significant volunteering/shadowing experience and research experience (but a slightly lower GPA). The second applicant is more competitive, even with a lower GPA. I just think you’re looking at this very narrowmindedly. Have confidence in your ability to work hard, use your resources well, and get a good GPA without needing to play this really weird game of trying to get into a school that will give you a good GPA. I’m not saying GPA is unimportant, just that it shouldn’t be such a major part of your decision making process.

I get that you want to consider GPA, and I’m not saying you should disregard it. But I think it’s more of a consideration when you’re at college, choosing your classes/professors/courseload, and considering things like “should I study?” or “should I take this extra internship?” or “should I go to that party?” That’s when you’re going to need to consider your GPA, not now trying to predict GPAs out of thin air. It’s fine to consider schools where you think you will succeed academically–choosing a school that you think fits you academically and socially, with class sizes that you prefer, maybe even preferable GE requirements, and good academic support systems. But that’s very school-specific, and not all of it is going to apply to everyone.

13

@baktrax Thank you for the detailed and helpful response. I don’t know, it’s definitely interesting times for me. It all just feels so permanent I suppose, and in my pursuit of the perfect decision I admittedly may be oversimplifying things. I do see your point about it being a much more broad topic than just GPA, and honestly appreciate your post.

"Have confidence in your ability to work hard, use your resources well, and get a good GPA without needing to play this really weird game of trying to get into a school that will give you a good GPA. "
Thank you bak I appreciate it and will definitely take your advice into consideration when choosing a college.

14

There’s a difference between “overthinking” and “counting your chickens before they are hatched”.

You haven’t even applied anywhere yet, and u have no FA offers in hand to compare.

15

He’s trying to pick a college based on some generalized notions about possible and future medical school. Which is exactly what he was counseled NOT to do.

16

If you apply to Stanford, Brown, JHU or Penn, be sure to prune your prose!

Best of luck in your college search!

17

“Let’s say you go to a school where you get a higher GPA, but there’s no nearby hospital and very sparse research opportunities. Another student goes to a large research university near a major academic medical center. They get much more significant volunteering/shadowing experience and research experience (but a slightly lower GPA). The second applicant is more competitive, even with a lower GPA.”

I disagree with this generalization. Many LACs are not near hospitals and by definition have more limited research opportunities, but I’ve seen no evidence that LAC students are at any disadvantage in getting into med schools compared to kids at large research unis (especially if being at a research uni results in a lower GPA). Med schools care very little which school you attend. It’s all about GPA and MCAT (and your state of residence for state med schools). You need some medical volunteerism - but is doesn’t have to be at a hospital. There are opportunities to do medically-related volunteering and shadowing almost everywhere in the country. (Or you can do it in the summer). Likewise you need some research experience, but again it doesn’t have to be medical research - and you can do that over the summer too.

LACs also have some advantages over research universities for those who are interested in medical school - smaller class sizes which enable you to develop personal relationships with many of the faculty for that critical committee letter, no grad students standing between you and the faculty for research opportunities, fewer sharp elbows in class because in small classes, students tend to know each other and feel more responsible for helping each other. And profs who know their students and are more likely to be supportive if, say, someone is sick during the final exam - less apt to ‘weed.’ The main advantage research unis have over LACs for medical school is if you are a future medical academic who intends to have a career primarily in research - then being at a place with an academical medical center will give you a head start on compiling the portfolio of research experiences that academic medical centers want to see in their future doctors.

18

There is a teaching hospital walking distance to Bates called CMMC.

19

You can browse an online list for ideas: “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges With Great Pre-med Programs.” The list is most useful for identifying colleges you might have missed.

20

<<<

  1. Pursue a rigorous UC education, apply for medical school under the pressure of UC grade-deflation and competition: I have a fairly solid chance at UCs like SD, LA, and Berkeley and the low tuition is a plus for my family especially with future Med School costs.

  2. Pursue a liberal/private school education, apply for medical school under less pressure and in more cooperative environments: Here I have a lower shot at prestigious privates such as Stanford, Brown, JHU, and UPenn and a better shot at less prestigious schools and privates. The downside is a much higher tuition, location, and possibly inferior education at a lower prestige private.

  3. Pursue a BS/MD program, guarantee placement in Medical School after BS: Probably the best option and yet also the most improbable one for me. I don’t see myself being very competitive applying to such a program not only stats wise (GPA), but also passion wise. I don’t think I honestly CAN convince someone I am 100% committed to a medical career with my current ECs and passions, nor could I convince myself to be honest. I can’t imagine myself doing anything else in 10 years, but at the same time I am only a high school Senior whose achievements are pretty mediocre when compared to these applicants. Hell I know kids in my own schools with 4.0s or close that are published, Intel/Siemens finalists, or founders of large non-profits/companies that have aided impoverished countries/peoples. Compared to these kids I honestly have not established myself toward a medical path.

While UCs are close to home, cheap, and provide quality education, they are also highly competitive and rigorous, possibly impeding my Med School application. While privates offer more cooperative environments, allow students more freedom, and improve my chances of admission into a medical school, they are further from home, very expensive, and probably harder for me to be accepted into.


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The UCs are highly competitive for premeds. The entire state of Calif (public and private) is overly competitive for premeds. There are just WAY TOO MANY premeds in Calif…and way too few med school seats.

I would try to establish a tie with another state that has med schools that are easier (none are easy), to get into.

What are your parents saying about how much they’ll pay each year?