My application decisions are starting to roll in and I’m starting to weight my pros and cons. I’ve gotten around 50% scholarships from T50 schools (not stellar T14 but such is life), which would still leave me around 100k in debt. Alternatively, I could go to a ~T100 school and be close to tuition free. I want to work in the Public Interest realm and I’m not looking to make millions but I would like to get hired and have a comfortable lifestyle (as in, be able to afford to buy a small house for myself).
I am unsure of which option will better set me up for long term success. If I already am not going T14, does the ranking matter that much (in terms of T100)? Every school I applied to has a strong Public Interest program (clinic/externship) so I’m set there.
If it makes a difference, 3.5 UGPA and a 160 LSAT, Naval Officer vet.
Any advice or knowledge is appreciated! Thank you!
Take a look at the 509 and employment reports for each school you’re considering; they can be found on the ABA website. Can offer more direct opinions if you want, but would need to have the names of the schools you are considering.
In addition, the term “Public Interest” covers a lot of territory in the law; can you be more specific? Some are extremely prestigious and tough to get-take a look at the backgrounds of the folks who work for the ACLU, for example. Others perhaps not as tough. And as a practical matter, true public interest jobs don’t pay very well for the few entry level jobs available.
Regarding cost: any undergrad debt? And in calculating LS debt, have you included living expenses, interest on the loans, etc? Any GI Bill money available to you?
Finally, law is a prestige-driven profession; the better the name of your school, the better the chances of getting a job that pays well, and I say that as a guy who went to State U, not ranked high. It’s just the reality, at least for your first job out of school. Because of this, the clinical exposure at lower ranked schools will count for little, unless that school has some sort of hook with a specific public interest group.
I think posting this link is allowed; it’s the ABA website:
http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/
@crankyoldman thanks for the quick reply!
I’ve been looking at the 509s and they are definitely helpful.
Schools I’ve applied to: Drexel, Cincinnati, Penn State, Georgia State, Baylor, UofGeorgia, UC Davis, George Mason, George Washington, Emory. Odds of admission at the higher ranked schools (GW, Emory) is pretty low for me but I’m gonna give it a shot anyway.
For Public Interest, I’m really interested in working with the at-risk population (specifically youth but I have a soft spot for vets). For example, I really like Cincinnati U’s Weaver Institute. Basically, i would want to get plugged into a system at the location of the school, make my share of connections, and go from there. So I guess I’m not really looking for national exposure. I’d like to stay local to the state in which I attend school.
Cost: No undergrad debt, I have calculated living expenses in my budget. Signed away GI when I joined ROTC so I’m not eligible (but did get undergrad paid for so I can’t complain).
You didn’t specify in your original post, but let’s assume that we’re talking about law school scholarships are the reaon you’ll go for free to some of the schools. Let’s look at Drexel’s 509; for 17-18 they awarded 58 scholarships, of which 17 will be reduced or eliminated. In other words, they’ve got some sort of mechanism to review the scholarships they give, and every year they take back 17 of those scholarships…so those students now either pay or leave-and that happens to fully 25% of those with scholarships. Worth looking at that for every school for which you’ve been offered a scholarship, so that you have a full understanding of what needs to be done academically to keep that scholarship. And in advance decide if it’s worth paying for that school.
You’ve also got a list that is very geographically diverse, from PA to GA to CA; are you familiar with all these locations? It’s most likely that after graduation you’ll stay where you graduate, so I’d recommend putting a lot of thought into that. If you’re a Georgia person, Cincinnati is going to be quite a change, and Philadelphia is very different from UCDavis.
Regarding the clinics, they may help in that specific geographic area(Weaver for Cincinnati) but will carry little or no weight outside of it.
Using Drexel again(employment outcomes this time), for its most recent class, of 124 graduates, 93 got JD bar passage required jobs. In other words, 25% of the graduating class did not get jobs as lawyers. Is that something you are comfortable with? Also note the overwhelming percentage of graduates got jobs in PA(and to a much lesser extent NJ).
Basically, use a cold eyed calculus about what school to attend. It’s the most important business decision you’ve probably ever made-and it is a business decision, since the whole point of the exercise is to get a job.
@Scutrules : It would be helpful to have a list of law schools to which you were accepted along with the annual tuition & scholarship for each.
Also need to know of any scholarship stipulations.
Your career goals in law may be a bit unrealistic.
Definitely ask about any stips. At a T14, a merit scholarship will continue as long as you remain in good standing, i.e., making progress towards graduation. At some lower-ranked schools, you might need a minimum GPA (such as 3.3) to keep your scholarship.
The other thing about lower ranked schools is location. Are they in a location in which you want to settle down after graduation. A degree from Davis will carry almost zero weight if you are applying for jobs in Philly or Atlanta.
@Publisher , @bluebayou
Stipulations are just GPA recs, keep above a 2.5-3.0 (depending on the school.
Latest result is a full tuition scholarship offer from drexel.
I’d like to stay in the region in which I’d attend school. So regional weight is really all that matters for me.
@Publisher , can I ask why you think the goals are unrealistic? Genuinely interested in what you’re thinking here. I’d be beyond happy making ~60-70K a year, that’s more than I would need with my VA benefits. Is that shooting too high with the goal of attending a T50-100 school and staying regional?
Thank you everyone for your responses!
@Scutrules
Drexel could be a good option for your goal. That school is super expensive and didn’t make sense for my D as her scholarship would have been $13k per. Average salaries from Drexel are high and they seem very career oriented.
@crankyoldman
Good points and the OP needs to consider what you said as well.
Congratulations on the full scholarship, but what exactly does that entail? Does it cover books/fees, associated costs, and have you calculated your cost of living(if that’s not included)? And do you know Philadelphia? It’s a big city, with all the pluses and minuses that go with that. And Drexel is definitely a regional law school, as the vast majority of grads work in PA and NJ.
Take a hard look-this is a business decision, as the goal is to get a job as a lawyer when you graduate. As noted above, the ABA requires each law school to keep employment statistics; check those out.
Apparently USNWR does the same, and for their 2019 statistics(this is online, didn’t purchase the full report), only 42.9% of the graduating class had jobs at graduation, and median private sector salary was $52,000/year, and public sector median was $49,504. Those are very tough salaries in a major metropolitan area like greater Philly.
https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/drexel-university-03199
I have no idea what the basis for the US News numbers is, but that employment rate is alarming, and those salaries would make for very basic living in Philadelphia.
Say what? According to LST, Drexel’s mean is $73k ($52k median) with the bottom quartile at $47k. A decent salary, sure, but not “high” in my book (which would be well over $100k, particularly since Big Law pays $190k to start.) Less than 10% of Drexel grads make the big bucks.
Hopefully, Temple will come thru with some decent money, as it would be a much better choice than Drexel.
OP: in your first post, you asked for advice. Mine would be to retake the LSAT. A few more correct questions could be huge for admissions to better schools. To me, attending a T2 school is just not worth the time, even they paid you to attend.
Edited to add: Thank you for your service.
IMO unless school is top 20, not much difference between top 50 and top 100. I went to GW Law School, a top 25 law school at the time, for free long time ago on an Economic Scholarship (not based on academics because my GPA was only 2.9). Funny thing is they gave me this economic scholarship even though I never applied for it. I was bummed out to receive this because I was all ready to attend UCLA Law school to pursue entertainment law. I also turned down an offer from NYU Law, a top 5 or 6 law school at the time. I really suffered no consequence for not caring about grades at college and taking all kinds of classes without concern for grades or future jobs. Even at law school, with bad grades, I managed to get a good job by keep bothering the employer’s head secretary so much that she recommended I get an offer just to get rid of my petering her. You have to have thick skin when you have low gpa. Lol
The bottom line is you get most jobs through your work experience. I knew many students with lower grades who got great jobs through their work connections and showing at work places you are good at what you do. Unless you want to be a law clerk or prof or work at top 20 law firms, law school ranking doesn’t matter that much.
Law isn’t a rocket science so I do not feel getting good grades at law school translates into being good attorneys at work or generating and dealing with clients.
My daughter just had to make this decision on Monday. Columbia at a net cost of $80K/year or Duke at a net cost of $50K/year. Columbia is a T6 school not HYS but close and Duke is number 10. Based on her career goals and interests Duke was the right choice. The math might be a little different lower down the food chain