<p>Hillsdale has long been #1 on my son's list. Now out of nowhere Washington and Lee is working its way in. All else equal (ie getting in to both--not an easy task at either, especially at W & L), any comments?
PS wants to go to law school</p>
<p>these schools are very similar, hillsdale is the midwestern version and w&l the southern version. w&l is typically ranked higher, but both would be good for law school. honestly, it comes down to which one he likes better. w&l has a very strong southern culture from what i have heard, and has a huge greek scene, so if he isn’t into either of those then it probably isnt a good fit.</p>
<p>I could not disagree more with Cross that these schools are similar. Hillsdale has a specific mission and really does live by its Mission Statement. W&L is a fine institution with a strong connection to VMI (they are right next door to each other). Hillsdale is absolutely unique among American colleges. Just read the course selections. </p>
<p>Also, W&L cannot compete with Hillsdale in financial aid (especially since W&L will rely principally on government aid in grants and loans).</p>
<p>I feel there is just no comparing the two schools.</p>
<p>Thank you for the input. Ostensibly, they seem to appeal to like-minded candidates. I agree with you regarding the true uniquness of Hillsdale. The higher ‘rankings’ for W & L from the powers that be have increased their allure to my son.</p>
<p>ha, ok. i know hillsdale pretty well, but honestly it was more based on what i have read about w&l, i probably should have mentioned that…</p>
<p>how about students life like in hillsdale?since it is a small college?what are the students doing in their free time?Has greek life or not ?</p>
<p>The social scene at Hillsdale has always needed work, and probably always will. But over all it’s pretty amazing.</p>
<p>Over the past few years, construction on campus has made hanging out on campus more attractive. I don’t know how well the first one went (or if they’ll do it again), but there’s even social events on campus now where alcohol is served to those of age:</p>
<p>[College</a> hosts first on-campus 21+ Charger Bar - News](<a href=“http://media.www.hillsdalecollegian.com/media/storage/paper1270/news/2009/11/12/News/College.Hosts.First.OnCampus.21.Charger.Bar-3830249.shtml]College”>http://media.www.hillsdalecollegian.com/media/storage/paper1270/news/2009/11/12/News/College.Hosts.First.OnCampus.21.Charger.Bar-3830249.shtml)</p>
<p>Anyways, there are a lot more college-sponsored events these days and I hear they’re great.</p>
<p>The mens’ Greek system has held steady at ~20% for the past decade, and though it’s holding its numbers up the re-founding of the Delta Tau Delta chapter has played a pretty significant role in this, and they don’t even have a chapter house (yet?). W&L definitely has a more vibrant Greek scene, and party scene overall. I don’t think that really works for or against Hillsdale; it’s up to your son. In my opinion, I may have wasted far too much of my Hillsdale experience passed out on various floors and couches, but somewhere in there I got a decent enough education to regret it (as opposed to my friends from Western Michigan who hate their jobs and live every weekend pretending they’re still there). Take that for what it’s worth.</p>
<p>Re law school: I was the same stinking way. Ugh. How does a teenage kid even think he MIGHT want to be an attorney? Television. It’s gotta be. Wherever your son ends up going, urge him to major in a nontraditional law-school feeder. Poli Sci, History, etc. are fine majors, but better serve as minors to something useful like accounting, finance, or a hard science. Urge him to explore every avenue he can-- tunnel vision is a killer. Law school is too often a ridiculous investment that shoulders kids with massive debt for a career that is nothing like they envisioned. “You can do so much with a law degree.” No, you can’t. “Lawyers make a lot of money.” Some do. Many don’t. The only thing more doctored than the employment stats of most colleges is the employment stats of EVERY law school. </p>
<p>You can, however, do so much with a good college education and a work ethic as opposed to wasting three more years in school racking up $100K more debt. </p>
<p>But I digress.</p>
<p>Your son should visit both schools for an overnight visit and see what’s what. The 'Dale is not for everyone, but in the end he’ll make quality lifelong friends. Who aren’t UVA rejects (ooooh!)</p>
<p>Great insight. He’ll be reading this…especially the law school rant. Thanks.</p>
<p>I have a Hillsdale grad and a current Hillsdale student and I have never once heard either of them say “I’m bored here” or “there’s nothing to do.”</p>
<p>Same here, fencersmom. My daughter only came home Thanksgiving and Christmas, and was anxious to get back.</p>
<p>I was thinking about this topic overnight and wanted to revisit a couple points:</p>
<p>Cross, we value your input since you do give us the “townie” perspective. Growing up in any location can color or flavor your opinions. I remember moving from a rural community to “the big city” in high school and I simply couldn’t fathom how anyone could be bored in my new school. My dear friend had an opposite experience in high school - moved from New York City (“da bronx”) to really remote Alaska. The kids in her school thought she’d be bored out of her mind, since their only tv was via VCR at the time, and it was 80 miles to the nearest town of size. She loved it. </p>
<p>Many of the kids at Hillsdale are experiencing not just a small town but the midwest for the first time. And most of them never are bored simply because even if there is nothing “official” going on that weekend, they are smart enough and resourceful enough to find their own fun. Many have cars so getting the heck out of Dodge isn’t a problem. And, for instance, even though we live in the suburb of a major city, we don’t have pro basketball; the college is sponsoring a bus to the Detroit pistons game this weekend. That would never have happened here. </p>
<p>I guess my point in that regard is… it really is different for college students than high school students.</p>
<p>Also, comparing W&L and Hillsdale… While students may have similar scores, the colleges are not really comparable. Their missions are different and the students’ attitudes toward those “fightin’ words” issues of religion and politics might be galactically opposed. I will put it right out there: in my opinion, Hillsdale is head and shoulders a better education than W&L.</p>
<p>i am definitely not a townie, i dont actually live there i just go to school there. maybe i shouldnt, but usually the word townie is far from a compliment usually. my input is almost entirely based off some first hand experience, and some from friends that go to the college. it also seems like some of the things you mentioned i did too, so i really see how you said applies to me.</p>
<p>oops, i think i wasn’t paying attention to what thread this was, so ignore some of it, my most of my input was on another thread</p>
<p>Thanks for your insights Fencersmother. My son has applied and we are waiting to find out if he has been accepted!! The letters are supposed to be going out Monday, so we’ll be hanging out by the mailbox! </p>
<p>I think you’re right, that creative kids can find interesting ways to pass the time just about anywhere - at least mine can! </p>
<p>I do wonder, after reading through several of the threads here, if drinking is a big part of the social culture at Hillsdale. One of the things that impressed my son the times we visited is that it seemed to be a more mature student body than he was seeing at the public university he’s currently attending for his senior year. It seems that most of the threads here about student life emphasize that there is indeed a good amount of drinking and partying going on. </p>
<p>Somehow, when we visited, we must have missed the part where they talked about kids crawling into their intellectually stimulating classes in the morning with hangovers : )</p>
<p>Caroljean,</p>
<p>I take some responsibility for your perception. Forgive me. </p>
<p>My breakdown would be as follows: a total of ~15% of Hillsdale students drink three or more nights a week. Of course, quantities vary. There are some regular drunks, but by and large even the partiers are spending one night or two of those nights they go out just going to a party and having a few or having a few beers with friends (or even a professor). I would say another ~20% of students go out a maximum of three nights a week, and even then they’ll attend parties but seldom drink to anything approaching excess (if at all). Another ~20% don’t really party, but can be convinced to come to functions where alcohol is present (e.g. a sorority / fraternity formals, fraternity theme parties (ATO’s Beach Party), President’s Ball). That leaves another ~45% whose presence on the “party” scene is practically nonexistent. </p>
<p>I spent most of my time at Hillsdale as Greek, so just what that ~45% was doing was a total mystery to me for most of my time there. Only around senior year when I branched out did I discover a lot of off campus houses with people who had a very wide range of interests and activities. Groups, clubs, etc. Mostly great people who I wish I’d gotten to know. My class graduated around 300 kids; I still run into names from my class I’ve never heard before. In other words, the “party” scene can be quite insular, and is certainly avoidable.</p>
<p>You hit the nail on the head when you talk about classes. I was perfectly happy up until graduation holding onto my 3.1. If you want to graduate cum laude or better, it takes a whole lot more effort and diligence, that is more studying and more focus and less extracurricular devotion. Unfortunately, being in a fraternity where 3.1 was considered resident genius, that I was barely “good enough” did not even cross my mind until around graduation.</p>
<p>Anyways, I hear the Sigma Chis have instituted a >2.6 GPA requirement for active members, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Delt Taus already had one in place when they refounded. As admissions requirements continue to rise, the party scene will probably shrink even more. (Hillsdale was always a good school, but from post WWII until around the early 1990s it was rightly regarded as a party school for rich kids.)</p>
<p>I should close with a note that the party scene at Hillsdale has a lot of virtue about it, if that’s the right word. There will always be a few bad apples at Hillsdale (of both sexes), but by and large even the big parties are free of drunk driving, fights, and/or shady maneuvers on impressionable coeds. Drugs are kept behind closed doors and among the few users (and, even then, it’s usually marijuana). There’s no such thing as a “safe” party of 18-22 year olds drinking together, but by and large the parties at Hillsdale are as close as it gets.</p>
<p>So… is drinking a big part of the social culture at Hillsdale? Yes. And no. :-P</p>
<p>also the delta taus are a dry fraternity i think, and if they arent officially i know they basically are dry</p>
<p>My son is an occasional drinker who has never been “drunk.” He attended Galloway’s “Feast” (an all Galloway (and Galloway alumni), all male Thursday night shirtless barbeque) and plenty of parties with alcohol and without. I think that many of the kids there realize that if they are heavy partiers, they’d better be happy with the 2.2 gpa. It’s Hillsdale; studying REQUIRED.</p>
<p>3.1 gpa isn’t so bad at Hillsdale. From Dr. Arnn’s comments, there is no grade inflation and only a small handful (14?) of students have graduated with a 4.0 gpa in tthe past 10+ years. (my numbers aren’t accurate, but awfully close).</p>
<p>By the way, my son is not in a fraternity and he’s never bored. He’s also very, very happy with school.</p>