<p>Congratulations to all on the acceptances and great FA packages!
D was handling the entire process pretty well until last week when she received 3 rejections on the same day. Two were reaches and although we were hoping for a positive answer, we were not surprised. The other one, however, was a target and we were expecting an acceptance. She broke down and was feeling very down on herself. All H and I could do was reassure her that this is in no way a reflection of her as a person or as a student and that she will do well regardless of the name of the school she goes to.
We are starting to visit the schools to which she has been accepted. Then, we will have to take a good realistic look at what we can afford, taking into account that our youngest will be going through the same process in two years.</p>
<p>Sorry to hear that occdom, denials are hard to take even when you’re expecting them. Give her time, the lure of going off to college will take hold and she’ll be back on track before long!</p>
<p>Wow! Wednesday was just brutal for quite a few students at my son’s school. He and his friends are still recovering from the hi’s and low’s of Wednesday’s great reveal. His school didn’t fare so well in the great admissions game. There were quite a few highly qualified, competitive students who were “packaged” very well and were just blow out of the water by the Ivy’s. Straight rejections, w/very few waitlists… College counselors were speechless and didn’t have answers for the students. Anyone else have this happen at their kids schools? My S put his hat in the ring with a few of the Ivy’s and was thrilled to receive one more acceptance but was not really in a mood to celebrate his good news when so many of his friends were having such a rough time. </p>
<p>Congratulations on all your kids accomplishments! I hope you all are enjoying the moment --now that it is all over. Well, now comes financial aid offers and DECISIONS!!!</p>
<p>I have seen a lot of articles about how tough it was this year. I’m just glad we went with the reach-match-safety approach, even though I have learned that those can be unpredictable too. Out of 9 applications (4 reach, 2 match, 3 safeties), my s ended up with admissions at 5 – 1 reach, 2 match, 2 safeties. But a couple of the packages are not realistic for us. We got some good news yesterday, a scholarship for NHS worth about $4500 at an oos public that had already given him merit money. So now we may be visiting one more place, but we’ll see. Hope everyone had a good day!</p>
<p>A lot of these more competitive schools have become little more then a lottery. There is little rhyme or reason for who gets in – especially when you’ve got thousands of 4.0 / great extracurriculars from which to choose. I have found solace in what I’ve read in Loren Pope’s “Colleges that Change Lives.” There are many many great schools out there – and not all of them (places like Earlham, Knox, Centre, Ursinus & Wooster) are recognized by US New & World Report. Just a thought…</p>
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<p>My take on this is that FIRST an applicant must be a competitive candidate for the selective colleges as far as the basics: gpa, course rigor, test scores, focused ECs. THEN, I believe that each college has qualities they are looking for, these factors may shift somewhat from year to year depending on their specific needs and their applicant pool that year. The consequence of these differences between schools and years is that results can be UNPREDICTABLE for the applicant. </p>
<p>What bothers me with the crap shoot/lottery/random terminology is that it often leads to students that haven’t made the first hurdle (competitive candidate) thinking that if they apply to enough schools, they will get into one/some. I believe that at either end of the bell curve (non-competitive at one end and out of the ballpark on the other) admission decisions are fairly predictable. It is for the majority in the middle where it is difficult to predict WHICH school(s) will accept them. Even more reason not to have a dream school, but rather having several schools, in a range of selectivity, that will suit the student’s academic and personal needs.</p>
<p>Well said, entomom. I think your post should be required reading for all those, like my DS2012, who are in the early stages of the admission process. There is a critical threshold that must first be met. Once that is established, there is rhyme and reason, but it will probably never be known to the applicant.</p>
<p>Thanks azcpa, I like your wording, that there is a rhyme & reason, it just isn’t always apparent to the applicant. </p>
<p>While I don’t particularly like saying this, I think the implication is that if a student is trying for some of the most selective colleges, they need to apply broadly to the ones they believe are likely to suit them. This doesn’t mean to blanket all of the Ivies or the top 20, etc., rather to evaluate schools closely but leave some room for the unpredictability factor in order to give yourself some good choices in the spring.</p>
<p>I agree with your general points, entomom. Unfortunately the schools don’t say this and refuse to attempt to define what that competitive pool looks like. They go around saying things like “you are not a number” and then most of the students they admit are above a certain number. Also, they invite a lot of students to apply based on PSAT scores, even though the rest of the application may not be competitive. So I would say that the schools themselves add to the “lottery” aspect by refusing to be more direct about the competitive profile. I suppose they do this to increase the applicant pool so that 30,000 students apply to some of these schools and also because there may indeed be an applicant with low numbers who will have somethig special and get in. The student admitted with a GPA/SAT below the average is the exception.</p>
<p>I had an exchange about this with an admissions person on another board. He was very forthcoming and provided some real insight, but he also refused to define what it means to be competitive to his selective school. </p>
<p>For those students who do meet the competitive profile (whatever it is), I think the essays can be very important, although more so at some schools than others. This is something that can’t be quantified, and I’m not sure students realize that very good essays take numerous drafts and rewriting.</p>
<p>Cg,
Sorry to hear the AO wasn’t more candid, but not too surprised either. Nothing is hard and fast, but with the margins so narrow, being below the threshold in any category really cuts into your percentages. Here have been my ‘rules of thumb’ for at least the past 5 yrs:</p>
<p>3.9+ UW GPA
Most rigorous coursework your HS offers
700-740/section or SAT2 gets your foot in the door; 750+ is better</p>
<p>As far as “you are not a number” and “we will make it affordable”, I take all of that as general marketing and don’t pay attention to a word of it. The only thing I believe are the actual data I see. For instance, H likes to go around saying how people shouldn’t use the SAT:</p>
<p>[SAT</a> May Someday Be Optional, Dean Says | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2008/9/23/sat-may-someday-be-optional-dean/]SAT”>SAT May Someday Be Optional, Dean Says | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>
<p>But if you look at their 25:75 test scores, they’re close to, if not the, highest in the country.</p>
<p>Yes, essays and ECs are very important they are what set a candidate apart from the rest of the pool. But only IF they are first a competitive candidate academically.</p>
<p>Call me cynical, but I think that colleges are in the business of education, and the rule holds true, “buyer beware”, it is up to the consumer to be informed about the product. The reason I’m on CC is that it’s a source of information about colleges that doesn’t come directly from the college.</p>
<p>I have to say that I agree with most of your observances regarding college admissions. College admissions is not only big business, it is HUGE business. Just think about the revenue that some top tier universities receive from application fees . 25,000 apps. * $50 = $1,250,000. Adcoms at a large number of universities my son visited seemed more interested in putting out rainbows and butterflies during the information sessions (to get your application fee) rather than answering the hard questions with specific numbers. My greatest frustration was not hearing the bottom line during the information sessions. Each university/college is unique and their bottom lines are all different (with certain common threads). </p>
<p>On the other hand, some universities were very candid. We found that if a school tells you to apply Early Decision you should probably do it (ONLY if it is your #1 and you have the financial means to afford). We heard this first hand from the Admissions Deans at the Duke and UPenn information sessions. The financial gamble was too great for us, so my son went RD and was denied at both. I appreciate that they were so candid about the admission rates being double or even triple, if you applied ED. Clearly, kids get in RD but at least we knew the odds going RD. </p>
<p>It was interesting how my sons list turned out. He applied to 15 schools 2 safety schools and the rest goal reach schools. He was accepted to 8, waitlisted at 3, and denied 4. He has three top choices with the programs he wants and doesnt have a clue as to which one he wants to attend. He also decided to stay on the waitlist for one. We’ll see…</p>
<p>My son and I had an appointment with his two college counselors today to go over some post-admissions counseling /strategies. (Students at his school probably have equal numbers of pre- and post admissions strategy sessions. I imagine it is the same everywhere.) Anyway, there was some interesting conversation about admit numbers and then his counselors said the rumor mill is abuzz with Duke’s waitlist numbers. Apparently they are well over 3,000, possibly close to 4,000, and that they waitlisted so many because there just wasn’t enough time for the Adcoms to thoroughly go through the thousands of applications AND to possibly get their admit rate down. I found an interesting article about Duke’s 2015 admissions. </p>
<p>[Duke.Fact.Checker:</a> Decision Day: Duke admits the Class of 2015](<a href=“http://dukefactchecker.blogspot.com/2011/03/decision-day-duke-admits-class-of-2015.html]Duke.Fact.Checker:”>Duke.Fact.Checker: Decision Day: Duke admits the Class of 2015)</p>
<p>“ONLY if it is your #1 and you have the financial means to afford”</p>
<p>Here is the Common Application rule:
</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf</a></p>
<p>So if the offer is not enough to support attendance, you tell them thanks but no thanks, and apply elsewhere RD. Imagine a student somehow compelled to attend, and then being expelled when the bill couldn’t be paid; it doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>^ There are really a couple of issues regarding Early Decision that students and parents must seriously contemplate before applying ED .</p>
<p>Entomom has many informative posts regarding ED. I dont have her expertise but this is what was made very clear to my son by his guidance counselors. </p>
<ol>
<li> If I apply ED, I CANNOT apply to any Early Action (non-binding programs).</li>
<li> Once accepted ED, I MUST withdraw all my RD applications to other university/colleges.</li>
<li> The FA packets dont all come in with the acceptances. It may take a week to 4 weeks to get the full aid packages.</li>
<li> If you have already withdrawn your applications to other universities and your FA packet makes it unfeasible to attend, you may find yourself in a terrible situation having to re-apply or start applying to other universities late in the game.</li>
</ol>
<p>While technically you may be able to get of your Early Decision obligation if you cant pay the tuition, fees, room and board, you may have compromised any other great offers from other universities. So, yes, it is indeed a financial gamble.</p>
<ol>
<li>Not true in most cases. Check each school’s web site. Don’t rely on GCs for this important issue. Some GCs have strong opinions about this that are at odds with published rules.</li>
<li>If FA is involved, this is true after you ACCEPT the school’s offer, not before.</li>
<li>You don’t have to decide until after the packet arrives, no matter how long it takes.</li>
<li>Doesn’t apply, because of the above.</li>
</ol>
<p>Kids should be applying ED only to their number one dream school, when they don’t care about comparing FA packages, when the only question is: can I afford it?</p>
<p>Some schools are trying to dispel the notion that ED is only for the well-to-do. See “Myth 3” at [Dickinson</a> College - Early Decision](<a href=“http://www.dickinson.edu/admissions/apply/Early-Decision/]Dickinson”>Early Decision | Dickinson College).</p>
<p>Great posts on the crap shoot aspect of admissions. We survived the long waiting period, now are going through decision process. D was admitted to 5 top “20” schools with no merit aid, one top 25 private with 1/4 tuition, 1 OOS public, with instate tuition and health science honors program, and large OOS private (ranked between 50-60) with 1/2 tuition and honors college. One top 20 was an “Ivy”. She visits the Ivy next week for a couple nights for their multicultural event. Because we don’t qualify for financial aid this is even a more difficult decision. My D. would need to take out partial loans to attend any of the top 5 at full sticker, as we have a S in college. Is an Ivy worth the extra money?</p>
<p>Two years ago my S applied to a similar slate of schools and was awarded 3 half tuition scholarships at 3 top 25 universities. My D has better grades, valedictorian, stronger EC’s and test scores…I was suprised she didn’t get offered any of the same scholarships. I am guessing that some of this might be in the large increase in applications across the board and it is really a honor just to get admitted to some of these colleges. I think this year was truly difficult year for so many kids! Good luck to everyone. I know I’ve had a number of sleepless nights already. We will see what she thinks when she gets back from her visit!</p>
<p>“Is an Ivy worth the extra money?”</p>
<p>If she anticipates looking for a job where Ivy prestige is valued, perhaps; in any other case (e.g., going to grad school), probably not.</p>
<p>“Is an Ivy worth the extra money?”</p>
<p>My D plans to major in Neuroscience and French, and will be on a premed track. Definitely plans on heading to professional or graduate school. Appreciate your input!</p>
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<p>The Ivy league is an athletic conference, the schools in the Ivy league vary in their potential “worth”.</p>
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<p>The place to find this out is on the PreMed Topics forum where there are many experiences posters. But please don’t start a new thread on that forum as this is the #1 FAQ. Instead, read the sticky thread about selecting an UG school or read the many threads that are a variation on this question.</p>