<p>Students at both schools can be qualified, but have different goals. A college like Princeton would admit students with varied interests. Caltech is a school that is STEM focused, so a student interested in a non-STEM field might prefer Princeton while a STEM focused student might prefer Caltech. There would be some self selection when deciding where to apply, but both students could have high grades and SAT scores. </p>
<p>It also seems that the discussions on any potential favoritism in the admission process take a dismal path. Each of these elite schools has only so many places and way more qualified applicants. They get to choose out of an application pool of the very best. Since they want a diverse student body, they choose students with different talents from different backgrounds. They have many more applicants than they can accept. Sometimes the only reason to not accept a student is that there aren’t any more spaces.</p>
<p>Nobody, no matter who they are, has a spot at one of these colleges that someone else can take. The process is far too complex and personal for anyone outside to judge an applicant who is accepted, and I don’t see any good in doing so. It just builds resentment. </p>
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A CCer recently made an analogy between the audition at high level music schools and the college admission on another thread. Both explain what is happening very well.</p>
<p>I agree with @PennyLane2011:</p>
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<p>I converted to Judaism (Sephardic) before marrying my Caucasian, Jewish husband. I am Black and our children identify themselves as Black/African-American, but they are Jewish. </p>
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<p>Are you kidding me! </p>
<p>Next there will be a study posted on CC that Jews control the media and banking in this country. Obviously you can’t control the world’s financial system unless you have been disproportionately admitted to elite colleges. </p>
<p>A major irony has not been addressed in this thread. Elite colleges in the early 20th century added an interview process to enforce quotas against too many Jews and homosexuals (per Jerome Karabel’s book “The Chosen”). By pure merit, qualified Jewish male students were rising in the Ivy student bodies. Less than progressive administrations strove to lessen the Jewish and gay footprint on campus. The genesis today’s holistic process can, embarrassingly, point to these nefarious interviews from a century ago.</p>
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I guess that, in the early 20th century, it was not “political correct” (if such a phrase had been invented then) to talk about (if they had an outlet to talk about it at all) how the interview process, asking about parents/grandparents’ whereabout in their lives, etc., were added to enforce a quota against those who did not have enough clout to defend or promote themselves.</p>
<p>I also read a story about a female jewish student around that time who decided to participate in a pageant competition, and it was considered a major event or even a “milestone” for them. Before that, it was not a norm for such a person to participate in such an event. We have progressed a long way since then.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, I heard from somewhere that Brown University encourages their applicants to submit their photos. It is rumored that their students tend to have a better physical appearance than the average. Is it (i.e., submitting the photo) true?</p>
<p>@mcat2 DD applied & was not asked. Brown was a rejection for her.</p>
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<p>That irony is a subtext of the Ron Unz article. “Holistic” admissions had its roots in anti-semitism. He’s alleging that holistic admissions now enforces the over-representation of Jews along with discrimination against highly-qualified Asians. </p>
<p>He seems to be assuming that that the populations of students with the highest average test scores and grades should have the highest numbers of admitted students, if they were being evaluated fairly by standards that are free from racial/ethnic bias. However, I don’t think it is to be expected that the highest ranked, highest scoring populations necessarily will produce the most students who satisfy holistic standards. The highest-scoring, highest-ranked students won’t consistently write the best essays. Presumably, schools cannot assure a race-neutral outcome if they favor legacies, children of rich donors, applicants from under-represented states, and athletes. These “hooks” reflect ideas about who best contributes to the overall well-being of the university and the education of its students. Arguably, a belief in “class crafting” is misguided, but it’s not by definition tantamount to racism or corruption. </p>
<p>Posting about an article from a conservative magazine published 18 mos ago seems to serve little purpose other than to be inflammatory.</p>
<p>Here’s an article critiquing the OP’s article. <a href=“https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/”>https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/</a></p>
<p>No one has added the the 176 comments about that article in well over a year. Why drag this article out of the mud now? Seems a bit tasteless.</p>
<p>^^ I agree. </p>
<p>@Goldenpooch You’re trying to be cute chalking this up to conspiracy, but that’s not what anyone is insinuating. I just think Asians and Jewish collectively recognize the landscape to a higher degree than other ethnic groups. That fact remains many prestigious employers don’t recruit outside of the elite name brand schools. Many CCers not at name brand schools will scream that undergrad doesn’t matter, but we all know that’s a lie. Good luck getting a job at McKinsey from Ohio State. Good luck getting a job at a white shoe law firm with a JD from outside the Top 14. Good luck getting an analyst position at Goldman from UConn. I could go on, obviously. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just a recognition of the landscape. Lifetime earnings, circle of friends and occupational prestige is very real. Targeting elite name brand schools is a very measured approach to positioning your children for success.</p>
<p>“Obviously you can’t control the world’s financial system unless you have been disproportionately admitted to elite colleges.”</p>
<p>Thanks, jym624, for the link. The type of thing I was looking for.</p>
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I just think Asian and Jewish [families] collectively recognize the landscape to a higher degree than other ethnic groups.
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<p>I think this is largely true and not something that is derogatory unless said in a snarky way. Certain cultures treasure different things. Some don’t treasure higher education as much.</p>
<p>Since my FIL was Jewish, we have a Jewish last name. My kids’ first names are popular Jewish names, so often Jewish folks will ask if we are Jewish (we are Catholic). My sister and cousin have the same situation. I doubt any of this made any difference with our kids’ college admissions(favorable or not…lol) </p>
<p>I just read jym626’s link and it is excellent, so I give it again here.</p>
<p><a href=“https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/”>https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/</a></p>
<p>The matter is closed as far as I am concerned. Thanks jym626.</p>
<p>Wait, is this the same article where the writer is suspicious because some university presidents have Jewish spouses? Didn’t we already demolish this? I’ll have to look for the old thread.</p>
<p>Here’s the old 91-page thread, that started with this same article: <a href=“How corrupt are Ivy League admissions? - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1425554-how-corrupt-are-ivy-league-admissions-p1.html</a>
It’s wide-ranging, but a fair amount of it is devoted to thoroughly kicking Unz’ buns.</p>
<p>“I just think Asian and Jewish [families] collectively recognize the landscape to a higher degree than other ethnic groups.”</p>
<p>I can’t speak to Asians, but I can tell you that the variance among Jewish families in the current generation (I’m not talking about the post WW2 generation) is huge. My guess is that it mirrors the variance among the general population.</p>
<p>SOME Jewish families are highly invested in their children’s education from day one. Some are not. SOME Jewish families are very savvy regarding higher education and others are not. There are subsets within the Jewish population whose children do not attend college for a secular degree at all (literally- among the Satmar, Belz, Chabad communities college attendance is close to zero for the current 18-25 year olds, even though some members in past generations did get college degrees).</p>
<p>It is rather offensive to keep pounding away at this point-- sort of “some of best friends are African Americans so I know what I’m talking about”. I know Jewish parents who are indifferent in the extreme to where their kids attend college as long as it’s close to home. I know Jewish parents who start saving for college the day they learn they are having a baby, and others who believe, “it doesn’t matter where you go as long as you get that piece of paper.”</p>
<p>Hey, sort of like the differences among everyone else in America.</p>
<p>Many Jewish immigrants came to this country to escape persecution and exclusion. The American dream was through education. It’s not a wonder that new immigrants would focus on the one way they had to improve their conditions. Several generations later, travel, a smaller global world, intermarriage, conversion (in and out), adoption, has diversified us, in appearance, level of practice, politically, occupations, and how we approach higher education.</p>
<p>Some of the competitiveness in applying to selective schools is due to circumstances that have nothing to do with admissions. Computerized applications have set the stage for low acceptance rates. Everyone who applies to a college with a <10% admission rate faces the probability that he or she is more likely to get rejected than accepted. It’s absurd to blame a person, or worse, a group of people, for what is more likely to be explained by the fact that there are a high number of extremely qualified applicants for a few spaces. </p>