<p>Curm:</p>
<p>Quit the snarkiness. It's concept vs. skills. Understanding a concept is not the same as truly mastering it. And a student needs independent verification that s/he has mastered it. Ergo, guidance. In college, that means the prof looks over your problem set and corrects it. Not you, the student. Is that so hard to understand?<br>
If he had written peddling when he meant pedaling, I would have corrected his English.</p>
<p>marite, no snarkiness. Read it with a smile. I was smiling when I wrote it. ;)</p>
<p>And heck, I was agreeing with what I thought you were intimating (and laughing with you, or so I thought). My independent learning D had to change to meet the heavier peddling, too.</p>
<p>Thanks, curm.</p>
<p>I realize that most of the time this sort of acceleration occurs in math, because there is a defined sequence. But my D's private school allowed her to accelerate in Latin in 8th grade by doing Latin II concurrently with the second semester of Latin I. Her teacher met with her once a week (giving up his lunch hour to do so, bless him) to go over the assignments he had given her the previous week. In class she was allowed to read from a simple Latin reader if they were discussing something she already had a good grasp of. I'm very grateful that they were so willing to work with her (and she made all the arrangements for this on her own, BTW). She's now a Classics major in college.</p>
<p>epiphany - looking back at it more closely I think a big reason public gifted worked for many years for my kids was a really exceptional cohort of classmates (and their families) that they were with from grade to grade. They were not the brightest in their classes and not the most motivated. They were near the top always but there was always a good role model for them. And the other families were of one mind in terms of really valuing education. This all started to unravel as the kids approached high school. Many of these families simply moved away and others began opting for private high schools. So the critical mass of similar students started to dwindle for my girls. I think they might have connected to others in the larger high school arena, but the private option was a very good one - so no regrets.</p>
<p>Also, I am just really struck by the discussion underway on this thread regarding math acceleration. My girls always liked math well enough but it was not a huge passion for them. If I'd suggested self-paced supplemental math materials they would have protested strongly. That really seems to be a key determinant of the child's needs. If they are really verbal in their interests then it is much more practical (I think) to just set them loose in a good library. I hope I didn't short change them by not seeking out more math opportunities for them. Neither of my girls appears to be headed into engineering or computer science, and that makes me a little sad.</p>
<p>Re Post 320:
I wish you wouldn't feel this way, and it's one of the 3 things that bothered me about the tone of the article. (And I seem not to be alone in my disapproval of the tone.) Glamorizing homeschooling in this way is artificial & not necessarily accurate. It may have been slightly more 'glamorous' for the family in question, because of their financial situation, which gave them freedom + opportunities not universally shared by h/schoolers, & because they had the other key elements I mentioned in a previous post. But the article made h-schooling appear frothily effortless, which is just flat-out deceptive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, as I said, not every teacher is willing to even let students work on their own in class.
[/quote]
Exactly. Marite brings up a situation that is, unfortunately, very common. Some schools allow NO accomodations. Even ones that require no effort from the teacher & in no way disrupt the class or distract from other students. Whether your disctrict is podunk or privleged, if the teacher doesn't have the right attitude, a kid needing more challenge is sunk. </p>
<p>In the Chelsea situation, she was in an expensive private school, yet the kindergarten teacher was absolutely cruel -- annoncing reading games but publicly excluding Chelsea. Now, it must be challenging to fit in a kid like Chelsea, who would no doubt get every single question correct & answer before any other classmates could get their hand up. But a kind, creative teacher who understood Chelsea's gifts could have found a way that served both Chelsea and her classmates.</p>
<p>Both my daughters read quite fluently when they started mainstream kindergarten. Both absolutely enjoyed the year. They did the alphabet work sheets along with the rest of the class and sounded out letter sounds, etc. It just didn't seem to bother them that they could read well and the other kids (except some) could not. Kindergarten was just a very brief part of their day. They enjoyed the socialization and recess, the snack, the parties, loved their teachers. Then they'd come home and do other things with the rest of their day. It did not make them feel strange to be ahead of the other kids in reading or math skills or knowledge base. They found other things to connect with the other kids on. I would have hated for them to miss their kindergarten years. Did they learn much in an academic sense? Not really. Were they nevertheless enriched. Absolutely.</p>
<p>"Frothily effortless" ? Are we reading the same article?</p>
<p>Again, & this time to mammall:</p>
<p>Please stop guilt-tripping yourselves. Homeschooling is not perfect (in the etymological sense of complete). It has, as I've mentioned, its drawbacks. It provides opportunities, and eliminates some opportunities. It can be a good solution for the intellectually charged, but even then there is some reduction in cognitive growth due to the absence of regular <em>academic</em> interaction with peers (as opposed to 'doing lots of things with others'). The human brain works not in a vacuum; we learn additionally from & with our peers whether we're 5 or 50, but sometimes that realization in us is delayed until well beyond college. The newest brain research clearly proves this.</p>
<p>Further, as I mentioned earlier, realistic self-concept is an important part of growing up & relating to others. GUARANTEED, no matter how 'gifted' & 'impressive' any individual homeschooled student is, there will be at least one student brighter, more capable, more talented, more accomplished in virtually every class in an <em>elite</em> college. (That's one reason they call them "elites.")</p>
<p>Bank on it.</p>
<p>post 329:
I'm quite clear on what I read.</p>
<p>While I agree that so much depends on the teachers, I have to say that my kids had some similar experiences to Marite's, though my kids went to rural public schools. While we did not have to advocate for accomodations that much in our elementary school as they were very willing to come up with ways to meet our kids' learning needs such as acceleration and supervised independent studies (we have no gifted policies or programs in our state), we had to do a LOT of advocating for both our kids in the middle and high schools. Like Marite's kids, our kids did some acceleration, and also independent studies either in the back of the room or in a different space entirely where they met once a week with a faculty member to check in and receive guidance. Usually these were one on one situations but a couple of instances were two on one. They did this in several subject areas and over many years. Some of these independent studies included taking exams that a class would have had to take (that was more in math). Otherwise, the papers and projects were very individualized. So, while the school didn't offer these accomodations outright, we advocated to make this happen and found teachers who would do it. It wasn't always easy but we made it happen (and we had a VERY supportive guidance counselor who also advocated for our girls). We also utilized CTY long distance a few times (though that was at our expense). The only thing Marite's son had access to that my kids didn't was college classes at a fine university nearby. Given our rural location and the fact that my girls were so heavily involved in extracurriculars, going to college classes was not an option. By the way, private high school was not an option here either (not that I could have afforded it anyway) and we would not have sent our kids to boarding school like some here do. </p>
<p>Every family forges a path for their kids that works for them. I would not have done what the family in the article chose to do for their very gifted daughter, but applaud what they did do. Many would not send their kids to our rural schools here but we made it work for them at the school through several accomodations for their 'advanced' learning needs and provided enriching activiites outside the classroom and feel things worked fine for our kids too.</p>
<p>No guilt-tripping here. As I mentioned way up-thread, this has been a fascinating lesson for me in how homeschooling can serve the needs of academically talented students. I have even discovered that, although my son has always attended conventional schools, we did incorporate several elements of homeschooling along the way, beginning in middle school. We have been fortunate (very fortunate, indeed, as I understand from this thread) to work with teachers and school administrators that "got" him and worked with us to meet challenges and provide appropriate opportunities in the form of acceleration and independent studies. But he is a kid who I believe -- I'm certain – was best served in a conventional school setting. Had we met official resistance at his schools, I suspect I would feel differently. I'm grateful, because I don't think that I would have been up to the challenge that Chelsea's mom so ably met.</p>
<p>Epiphany, No matter the tone of the article I know very well that home schooling is not frothily effortless. My husband actually wanted me to home school and I just knew I was not the gal for the job. What I really have appreciated about sending my kids to school is that they have the opportunity then to choose to share with me what happened at school. I was very conscious of this even when they were in preschool. It always felt like such an honor when they wanted to relate the events of their school day to me. It felt important that they own a sphere of their life that was apart from me to some extent. No doubt good home schooling can provide this same experience, as well, though. Maybe I'll help home school my grand kids.</p>
<p>I really don't get the frothily effortless thing. That's how our life sounds to some of you?</p>
<p>Chelsea won four world championships in Irish harp. She got perfect SATs, ACTs and 5s on a bunch of APs, the vast majority of which she self-studied. She took college classes for high school (46 college credits). Throughout high school, in addition to her studies, she basically ran a part-time Shakespeare school as one poster described with 42 students and a major spring production the kids work on all year - for all of which, by the way, she charged nothing for prodigious amounts of time and energy. Throw in museum classes, acting troupes, online classes, home school co-op classes, restoring a prairie and other interesting experiences and ways of learning. My husband and I built a company while we home schooled our daughter. I created and still run a support group that serves 100 families, as well as a weekly Co-op. I taught or organized probably 30 classes over the years.</p>
<p>And this sounded effortless? I'm mystified. And it definitely didn't feel frothy while I was trying to keep all these balls in the air! :)</p>
<p>alchemymom, when an Olympian wins her event leaving everyone in the dust, it does look beautiful and effortless. However, her everyday training logs containing hours and hours of painful repetitions show how much work preceeded this seemingly effortless victory. No, your work was far from "frothily effortless", and you do not have to defend yourself. I'm amazed at what you've done. Are you going to continue your involvement with the homeschooling community?</p>
<p>I can't even make frothy matzah balls, much less juggle them effortlessly... ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Both my daughters read quite fluently when they started mainstream kindergarten. Both absolutely enjoyed the year.
[/quote]
I doubt they'd have enjoyed the year if the teacher set up reading games & announced "Not you, Chelsea," as the OP relates. Chelsea's situation was much more than just a fluent reader being ahead of many of her classmates. Plenty of kids read fluently by the time they enter kindergarten. But if the teacher shows some type of resentment or annoyance because the kid is advanced, life can be miserable for the child.</p>
<p>Post 335,
...and I don't really "get" the fact that I mentioned the ARTICLE, not the post(s) in this thread correcting/modifying the tone of the article.</p>
<p>Do people read critically anymore? Stop claiming I said things I didn't. The article did <em>not</em> describe the real effort/labor involved, i.m.o. Both by what it said & what it did not say, it implied this to be much more of a cakewalk than it was.</p>
<p>HELLO: Frothy is about the author, not the persons described. Geez.</p>
<p>The <em>article</em>, the <em>article</em>....</p>
<p>"you do not have to defend yourself. "</p>
<p>Again, a NON-ISSUE. No one's being "attacked," BunsenBurner. You're manufacturing an issue which is not 'there.'</p>