<p>NeedAdvice,
The thing you should realize is that EVERYONE has different life experiences. EVERYONE misses out on something, but has other experiences that are equally as good, if not better. My son, who attended high school part-time and homeschooled part-time (his choice) missed his senior prom because he was visiting colleges before making his final decision. Was he upset? Not in the least. Prom was just not on his list of priorities at the time.</p>
<p>Just because you look fondly back on prom, lunch trips for fast food, etc. does not mean those experiences are vital to all young people. Each person grows up with memorable experiences; they don't all have to be the same.</p>
<p>I said something about reading through this entire thread to see why folks are fed up with it. </p>
<p>I just went through it again myself and discovered that some of the more offensive posts have been deleted. This makes it a little harder to follow! For instance, a couple times it looks like I am answering criticisms that haven't been lodged by anyone. Hard to convince people we are not crazies if it looks like we are answering the voices in our heads :)</p>
<p>I was talking to a friend of mine, who is the product of public schools. I told him that a lot of people I know think I am missing out because I will not and have not attended a prom. He couldn't figure out what I was missing out on. He told me that he rarely went to school parties in high school, as they were all filled with wild kids who were not supervised and, hence, drank and acted inappropriately. </p>
<p>Seems to me, in that respect at least, that I am not missing much by homeschooling.</p>
<p>Not only that, but it's outrageous to assume homeschoolers can't attend proms. My daughter did.</p>
<p>Now here we are again, all talking with each other in this obnoxious thread, after the troll has slipped out the back door. Maybe we should formulate a standard response to this thread, and then stick with it. Anybody who first sees this thread could post the standard reply. How about something like:
[quote]
Homeschooling is not a joke. A number of us in the CC homeschooling forum have decided to boycott this thread because of its offensive title. We believe this forum exists for the purpose of discussing and sharing information relevant to college bound homeschoolers, and should not be used as a dumping ground by people who do not approve of homeschooling. </p>
<p>If you seriously believe homeschooling is a joke, you will find ample responses if you take the time to read this thread. </p>
<p>On the other hand, we do recognize that homeschooling is controversial and many people have legitimate concerns. We welcome debate and discussion, so if you would like us to respond to your questions or comments, please post under an existing thread, or start a new thread with an unoffensive title.
[/quote]
Any edits, corrections, or additions? What do you think? Am I out to lunch to think something like this would work? </p>
<p>DianeR, I didn't realize so many posts had been removed from this thread. Interesting. I wonder how that works. It's not great for continuity, but it's kind of nice that somebody cares.</p>
<p>Do you have a standard troll response in mind? I'm having trouble coming up with something diplomatic. Story of my life LOL</p>
<p>I don't know if many of the posts have been deleted. But I noticed that some comments I responded to (calling us homeschooling parents control freaks and conceited and homeschooling "crap") aren't there anymore. I know one time I received an answer by email, but when I followed the link it wasn't on the board. So it must have been deleted before I even had a chance to respond.</p>
<p>No, it isn't great for continuity. I just wanted to say something so that new people reading through the thread won't think I'm nuts. Like, why did I start out a post saying, "Control freak?" when no one had used the expression? Why do I say someone is calling homeschooling parents "conceited" when no one has?</p>
<p>Oh well. I don't know if anyone is going to read through this entire thread anyway. I was trying to come up with a comprehensive list of all the allegations that had been made against homeschooling, then discovered some were missing.</p>
<p>Just because you look fondly back on prom, lunch trips for fast food, etc. does not mean those experiences are vital to all young people. Each person grows up with memorable experiences; they don't all have to be the same.
</p>
<p>Let's just say my main point is that homeschooled kids miss out on socializing with their peers and thus miss out on developing skills that could possibly help them in the real world. Kids who attend public/private high schools have to know how to defend themselves from life's hardships: ie) conflicts with others, etc. It just makes them tougher and more able to deal with others in the real world. Mommy isn't there to protect them. That was my main point, not so much prom as I never really placed that much importance on it in high school.</p>
<p>Assertion is not proof. Studies have found no life skills missing in homeschooled students or an absence of necessary socializing with peers. Your assumption to the contrary is offensive.</p>
<p>It is also offensive to assume that homeschooled students never venture out into the real world without mommy there to protect them.</p>
<p>Is there any proof that homeschoolers have any difficulty in college or the workplace? No. Followup studies have been done, but then, you aren't interested in any studies, are you? No, you just want to seek out strangers and tell them they are inherently flawed or they have done a grave disservice to their children. </p>
<p>I submit that holding negative, unsupported stereotypes about people you don't know -- and actively seeking them out to share those stereotypes -- is not a life skill worth having. So I see no reason to take to heart what you have to say about learning to "deal with others in the real world."</p>
<p>Well, I never said never, just in high school. It may take longer for homeschooled students to adjust to the real world than those already assimilated.</p>
<p>
[quote=dianer]
</p>
<p>Is there any proof that homeschoolers have any difficulty in college or the workplace? No. Followup studies have been done, but then, you aren't interested in any studies, are you? No, you just want to seek out strangers and tell them they are inherently flawed or they have done a grave disservice to their children.
</p>
<p>Academically speaking, I see no disservice to their children, generally. Some home schooling can provide great educations. However, socially and extracurricular-wise, yes I believe it is a disservice.</p>
<p>I would argue that the one who starts the discussion by criticizing others is the one with the burden of proof. My mention of studies -- throughout this thread, none of which were denied by any of the previous folk who popped up here to say what you have said, were proven wrong, and quietly slipped away -- is deserving of less credibility than your assumption? </p>
<p>About homeschoolers never venturing out into the "real world" you say:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, I never said never, just in high school. It may take longer for homeschooled students to adjust to the real world than those already assimilated.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>High school is what I was talking about. They do get out. Without mommy. Jeez.</p>
<p>And it may take public school students longer to adjust because they have to start making decisions for themselves in college, while homeschoolers are accustomed to deciding what they want to study, how to schedule their time, etc., and have had a chance to develop knowledge of what they want to study. But I have no proof of this other than my daughter's personal experience in college and what other homeschoolers have said. This is more than you have, however, so I think my "may" is a bit more credible.</p>
<p>If there were ANY negative evidence about homeschooling, the NEA would be plastering it all over the media. Colleges and employers wouldn't be accepting homeschoolers. This just isn't happening. </p>
<p>Finally, I don't want my child to be assimulated. Isn't that what the Borg did?</p>
<p>NeedAdvice, it is not your assumption against ours. We have experienced homeschooling and see the results. What purpose does it serve to state that homeschoolers don't socialize with other students, without even acknowledging the examples to the contrary given just a few posts prior? There are real people here dealing with real issues in their lives regarding homeschooling and college. </p>
<p>And why are we homeschoolers still participating in a conversation that begins with an insult an continues with more insults? </p>
<p>Am I the only one interested in boycotting this thread? What was wrong with my suggested response to this thread below? Too long? Totally off the mark? </p>
<p>If one of us posted something like I suggested below every time somebody revives this thread, and then took any serious issues raised here to appropriately named threads, maybe we could put this to rest.</p>
<p>Seriously. How about taking questions about socialization and homeschooling to a thread called "Socializtion and homeschooling"?</p>
<p>I thought it would be useful to post the links I did. Maybe they will be sufficient to end things now and we can refer back to them when the next troll strikes here or in another thread. I will admit to a weakness (particularly in the middle of the night) of hoping to see a troll admit error; but first thing in the morning, it isn't looking that realistic! The "this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it -- I don't care about your facts" attitude is remarkably impervious to criticism. </p>
<p>I am not that interested in suggesting a thread about socialization. It has all been argued before, on this and that other annoying thread. So I wouldn't invite debate and discussion about it or any other ill-informed attack on another thread. We would then be in the same position, although the name of the thread would be different.</p>
<p>I also think your proposed language is too long. It looks like too much credence is being given to a troll and that our only problem is the name of this thread.</p>
<p>As I mentioned before, I don't have a perfect alternative in mind. I would prefer something simple like, "Troll ... don't respond" -- to be used in this or any other threads. </p>
<p>What do the other homeschoolers (and former homeschoolers like myself :) ) think? Nan's language, mine, or something else? Or do others think we should engage in the debate whenever and whereever it arises in the hope of educating people?</p>
<p>To me...I don't think it deserves a response.</p>
<p>It's one thing to come in and say, "I don't know how this works." Or "How do you deal with this?" Or "I have concerns about ___"</p>
<p>I can work with that.</p>
<p>But someone who just comes in to bash, with their minds already made up, doesn't deserve the time and effort it takes to type out a response.</p>
<p>I don't know what drives them here...superiority complex, jealousy, or boredom, but I have better things to do with my time than to try to convince some teenager that homeschooling works.</p>
<p>These aren't parents we're dealing with, who are thinking about homeschooling or wondering if homeschooling would work with their child...or college admissions officers, wondering how our children will do in college. They're other kids!</p>
<p>There was a college professor (or someone who professed to be such) earlier in the thread, but he's long gone. But you are right ... I think they have all been teenagers recently.</p>
<p>So -- would you prefer to just maintain an icy silence or do you have a pat reply you would prefer to use?</p>
<p>Replies to people whose opinions are immutable are a waste of time and effort. If someone is genuinely seeking information, I'm glad to help. </p>
<p>That's the same approach I take with live people. If a person begins to rant about all the horrors of homeschool, I quickly find a reason to excuse myself from the vicinity. If a person is misinformed and is open to clarification, discussion is worthwhile.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, socially and extracurricular-wise, yes I believe it is a disservice
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sounds like this is being based upon your presuppositions more then any studies or links you will provide.
The facts are coming in more every day. Some of the statistics DianeR listed
are recent. The stereotype that home schooled kids are socially inferior has been discussed and dismissed by so many for quite a while now they are almost akin to urban legends.</p>
<p>Karen Rile, a UPenn writing professor has home schooled her girls who have gone on to win national awards and one is attending Swarthmore and her younger one is playing with the Philadelphia Symphony.</p>
<p>My son who was home schooled for the three high school years has developed in to a very fine well rounded adult.
For three years I listened to the concerns of friends and family on his lack of socialization. Meanwhile he went to museum classes, worked on his art , and served at the RNC working next to the Secret Service. Of course I understood how my neighbors might have these false notions about socialization. That is always the first thing they bring up.
Of course there are some home schooled kids who might suffer socially just as there are public school kids who are damaged by bullying. </p>
<p>I'm with hsmamainva and EllenF in that I don't have the patience defending home schooling but I commend the rest of you for your well though out efforts.</p>
<p>I for one have been a homeshooler since I was in 4th grade, and I am now out of homeschooling. My mother was my teacher, along with assistants that graded my work, and let me tell ya I did not make straight A's. I have many friends and 50 percent of them are other homeschoolers...We hade a prom we had football games we had just as much if not more activites as any other Kid our young adults does in a puplic school....I never got special treatment from my mother just because she was my teacher, in fact I belive she was much harder on me. There is more one on one time when you are homeshool. I feel like puplic schools are more about money then education. I mean you get an F if you don't have your P.E outfit, and your the one who has to supply that.I just don't get it...I am glad that my mother cared so much about me that she took me out of puplic school...And When I have children I will do the same.</p>
<p>I'm not suggesting we should engage trolls. On the contrary, I'm suggesting we simply post a note to discourage others from going on the defensive when this thread flares up.
This works for me for the obvious trolls, but I'd like it pointed out to anybody reviving this thread, no matter how well meaning their post, that we intend to put this thread behind us.</p>
<p>I don't care about the language, I just think a boycott is in order. </p>
<p>How about this for an experiment: Whoever gets here first when the thread is revived says it using whatever language they want, and the rest of us agree to let it go with that one post. If that doesn't work and somebody new gets caught on a troller's hook, they could be invited to join the boycott, again with just one post (maybe including a re-post of DianeR's excellent links) from whoever gets to it first. </p>
<p>I have no idea if it would work, but why not give it a try?</p>
<p>The reason they have good grades is because there is more one on one time with the child, did you attend homeschool? I'm guessing NO....You should look up a site you might be suprised how much more they have to offer then public school...Heres one try it....<a href="http://www.educationsacademy.com....You%5B/url%5D">www.educationsacademy.com....You</a> might learn something..Doubt it.. in reply the homeschool is a joke</p>