<p>The University of Chicago, Swarthmore, MIT and West Point will kick you in the butt also, but kids persist to graduation. Not a whole lot of sports either, except the Army-Navy game.
I bow to emardkity's experience and detailed knowledge.
But I didn't hear drugs mentioned.</p>
<p>Try that math again: (203+46+13)/349 = 75% in six years (the standard measure)</p>
<p>(203+46)/349 = 71% in five years</p>
<p>203/349 = 58% in four year</p>
<p>Or is my math nonsense? ;)</p>
<p>I don't know much about the drugs on campus there, other than at one point asylum block was also known as the cocaine dorm.
I grew up in the 70's , not much shocks me in that line & I knew that students would not be able to keep up with academics if they used alcohol/drugs frequently.
Re: rigor, I didn't imply that Reed was the only school with a thesis or heavy academics, however- my impression of the schools that you mentioned was that they considered numbers of GPA and SATs to be very important for admission. How many students with a 3.00gpa are attending Caltech & how many that had 570 in the math SAT are science majors at MIT?
Reed also grades very tough in class- perhaps 10 people have gotten straight A's, in 10 years. Some parents, happy that would not make them.</p>
<p>The only time I saw drugs is during a parent weekend I saw two students going underneath the blue bridge with a bong.
Oh.NO.
( Iv'e also attended parties on campus and didn't see drinking to any extent or drunkenness- thats why I was comfortable with my preteen visiting)
My daughter chose subfree dorms most of her time there, because she is
asthma
allergic
mental illness and addiction many members both sides of family.
She also has learning challenges, and decided sub free would be quieter than a dorm that attempted to be quiet at 10 pm.
Worked well for her.</p>
<p>yep, vossron, my bad.
I was reading the number of students as percentage of students, I think.
Still, drop out rates much higher than Swarthmore, etc. I would still worry about this as a parent, while trusting my kid, I hope.
emeraldkity, it sounds like you have a strong relationship with your daughter, which is the best we can do. I'm happy she has found the place for her.</p>
<p>Reed really isn't a competitor school to Swarthmore -- I think if you are going to compare graduation rates then you need to look at schools that are more similar demographically. That is, look to the schools on the same spectrum of cross-admits, same relative degree of selectivity, similar demographics of student bodies, etc.</p>
<p>My 2 cents. Son graduated Reed in the 80s. Daughter a rising junior now. Very, very different people, but both thrived. I was worried about my daughter -- not so much Reed, but the city of Portland. When she left for college she hadn't yet learned to navigate in a city, take a bus, identify sketchy neighborhoods and protect herself. No street smarts. After two years, she's learning, though she's still shy, quiet, studious, and not at all interested in drugs and alcohol (after two years in subfree, she's ready to move off campus for the quiet). She thought Renn Fayre was "interesting," but kept her clothes on. She has a few good friends, likes her professors, has been hired to do work in her major, and apparently aces her classes (though neither of us has asked to see grades). Son was, as I said, different. Liked to party and scraped through Reed doing little work, but does well professionally in the field in which he majored. Both kids report Reed's lack of emphasis on grades and competitive sports is a big plus. Both report that being treated like a responsible adult suits them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Reed really isn't a competitor school to Swarthmore -- I think if you are going to compare graduation rates then you need to look at schools that are more similar demographically.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with that. Graduation rates mostly correlate with SAT scores which mostly correlate with high income students (which, of course, correlates with higher graduation rates!)</p>
<p>Where Reed and Swarthmore share a similarity is that "x" number of students reach a point at the end of freshman or sophmore years where they can see they just aren't going to graduate unless they find a less demanding academic program. You have to have a C average or better to graduate from Swarthmore and that reality hits if you can't declare a major because your grades aren't good enough.</p>
<p>Swarthmore loses fewer because, once you are there, financial aid isn't likely to be an issue and because the support services/safety net is broad and deep. To borrow an Everest analogy, there are plenty of very capable sherpa guides to get almost any student to the top of the mountain -- from the trained study group leaders in the science departments to the writing associates for reviewing papers to counseling services to deans for every imaginable permutation of student. The school places heavy demands on the students, but there is an underlying support network that usually catches kids before they fall through the cracks.</p>
<p>I also do not think Swarthmore and Reed students are that similar. Swarthmore some quirky kids, but they are quirky kids with an "old-school" nose to the grindstone mentality when it comes to academics. My sense is that Reed attracts a little more counter-culturish student which is going to inevitably lead to a higher rate of marching to their own drummer right out of Reed.</p>
<p>... marching to their own drummer right out of Reed. </p>
<p>Like Steve Jobs?</p>
<p>Yep. Works for me. Some folks just don't belong in college.</p>
<p>Swarthmore gets a few students in each class who get so wrapped up in an extra-curricular that they forget about college. For example, they had a few students who got so involved in starting the Genocide Intervention Network and organizing Darfur rallies that they essentially moved to Washington DC for their senior years. Somehow, Swarthmore manages to figure a way to get kids like these their diplomas.</p>
<p>Well, heck, my son is headed to Reed in the fall. There isn't a question or point that's been raised here that hasn't crossed the minds of my husband and I. </p>
<p>Two years ago, we had a lot of the same questions when our daughter decided on Beloit (which, by the way, has a similar approach to substance use to Reed's and a similar march-to-your-own-drummer student culture). </p>
<p>In both cases, we decided to take the leap of faith TrinSF mentioned because our children felt strongly that they had found the right and best place for themselves. In my daughter's case, it has worked out wonderfully. There have been some ups and downs (there will be at every college!), but she still believes she made the right choice and we are amazed and thrilled to see her more fully becomming her own person because of her experiences at Beloit.</p>
<p>The jury's still out on whether Reed will live up to my son's hopes and dreams, or how it will affect him. So, yes, it is a leap of faith to send him there. </p>
<p>But, frankly, it is a leap of faith to send a kid to ANY college because in reality no one really knows how it is going to work out. It is nerve-wracking for ALL of us parent-types to let go of control and trust our kids' decisions, but bit by bit, we must and we do. We keep our hearts and arms open in case things don't work out or the decisions are disasterous, but from here on out, it is their life, not ours. We are there if they need us and we may sometimes cringe when they make choices different from what we would have made, but they are the ones living their lives, not us. We can only hope that we have prepared them well for life's challenges, in college and beyond.</p>
<p>Well said, carolyn--and best wishes to your son next year at Reed! It's certainly a great school for the right student and no one school is right for everyone.</p>
<p>I've been out of town or I would have posted earlier, but it's nice to see so many perspectives out there.</p>
<p>My son was at MIT--home of the gnurds--and my daughter was at Reed--during the same four years from 2003 to 2007.</p>
<p>Both of them worked very hard to graduate. I thought that in some ways Reed was harder. Certainly the demands of the senior thesis and junior qualifying exams at Reed are very high. Reed's 6-year graduation rate--high for the west coast but low for the east coast--was mentioned; I think quals and the thesis account for a great deal of that. Several of my D's friends left after they failed their quals; others decided to go elsewhere because of finances. </p>
<p>The academic standards are very high and they take them seriously. My daughter maintained a B average--and I only know that because her advisor filled out the forms for car insurance--and found that a challenge. There is no "physics for poets" option; all students take the same 101-level science courses and there are distribution requirements. (In my perception, my son worked less hard in his non-major courses than my daughter did.)</p>
<p>All students take a demanding freshman "western civ" course called Humanities 110. I have really enjoyed the side effects of that course; my D is knowledgeable across a wide variety of concepts. I thought I was well-read but her learning exposed the gaps in my own. </p>
<p>At the same time, the Reed education is not necessarily a practical one. My son, with his MIT degree, landed on his feet quickly and had some serious job hunting skills; my D has struggled to find a paying job. (Of course, she's a theater major, and she's found a lot of poorly-paying jobs.) I expect my D's degree will last longer than my son's, in the sense that she'll still be using it in thirty years while my son will have moved on and will find most of what he learned in college out of date in short order. (Of course, he also learned how to learn and that won't go out of date.)</p>
<p>Does Reed have a drug and alcohol problem? Yes, I think they do. Is it worse than other colleges? I don't think so. Certainly drugs and alcohol were at least as available and widely used at MIT as they were at Reed during the four years I was observing both colleges closely. Are they winked at more at Reed? Maybe. I think that's changing.</p>
<p>Renn Fayre: well, Renn Fayre is a post-thesis bacchanalia in the ancient Greek tradition. It does in fact involve picting--painting oneself blue and running around otherwise naked. My daughter tells me that wearing sneakers is important when picting because otherwise you get really cold. The alums traditionally guard the campus during Renn Fayre to ensure that it is limited to Reedies and invited guests. </p>
<p>Would I send my daughter to Reed again? I think so. There's a part of me that wishes we'd sent both kids to the local U and saved our dollars and bought them a house instead of a college diploma... but ultimately I think I'd do it again.</p>
<p>Thanks, Dmd, and the other Reed parents who posted here. I appreciate it.</p>
<p>it kind of has a hippy reputation</p>
<p>it kind of has a hippy reputation</p>
<p>That would be the "no time for showers" aspect of finals week. :p</p>
<p>and my D thought the "white guys in dreadlocks" she saw at CalTech were the epitome of the finals week syndrome....</p>
<p>how do white kids get their hair dreadlocked anyway?
::::::::eyes rolling back in my head:::::</p>
<p>so just because it is out there- an " article" from teh local free newspaper Re: Reed.
Cover story even!</p>
<p>The comments from students are great, because they are articulate and know that the slant is clumsy and obvious.</p>
<p>Willamette</a> Week | “Higher Ed” | May 14th, 2008.</p>
<p>Im certainly not saying that there isn't drug problem at Reed, ( or anywhere , where there are young adults or teens- I could tell you some stories about Bill Gates high school for example- cocaine I think someone said, is God's punishment for having too much money ) some students apparently go there because they think getting high is a integral part of the culture, just as some students chose schools where they intend to party down as much as possible.
But that isn't the school & I stick with my belief that if you can't behave appropriately, it isn't the colleges place to teach you.</p>
<p>They do have honor court etc- and that could be viewed as " teaching" but I am talking about how you behave day to day.</p>
<p>dke -</p>
<p>Not only have the kids not learned anything from the people that you mentioned, they romantasize those tragedies. Layne Staley, Kurt Cobain, Hendrix - kids who have a predisposition towards the worst form of addiction often LOVE the idea of dying in a youthful state from heroin, just like their "heroes".</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the young man in the Oregonian article sounds like he suffered from early onset addiction, which has pretty tough statistics attached to it. Someone who had an encounter with heroin before college MIGHT have done better at a recovery school, or a local campus while living at home, or no campus at all (just long term treatment). It's such an impossible call for parents, and nothing that kid's parents could have done would have saved him. Nothing Reed could have done would have saved him. </p>
<p>I think that the long term outcomes for early onset opiate addiction are something like the following (from memory): about 40% of heroin addicts stay clean after two years of recovery after treatment, about 2/3 at three years, and about 75% at five years. Such a devastating illness! Even after being clean for two years, early-onset addicts still have about a 60% chance of relapse.</p>
<p>But for Reed or any other school, there is a moral obligation to publish the truth. People need to learn the truth about addiction so that they can understand what it really takes to be in recovery (TIME, and MONEY for treatment). The more people learn the truth about this disease, the more money will be diverted towards the search for medicines, a vaccine, or even a cure.</p>
<p>Layne Staley, Kurt Cobain, Hendrix - kids who have a predisposition towards the worst form of addiction often LOVE the idea of dying in a youthful state from heroin, just like their "heroes".</p>
<p>Well Kurt Cobain committed suicide by blowing his head off.
It wasn't romantic, it was tragic because he was in such pain from physical ailments that he turned to other drugs to cope, but I don't think kids think it is something to emulate.</p>
<p>I would agree that some drug users are playing Russian roulette and actually want to die, but I also don't see kids glorifying depressive behavior in my area.</p>