Honestly now...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
41

<p>PS-- I know Esquette's son is a lax player from MD and I am not trying to imply that they're all terrible people... there just really are a ton of them. It really seems as if over 50% of the lax team is from B-More or NJ.</p>

<p>EDIT: haha yeah, laxer, I just read your post. I don't have a problem with them at all; one of my best friends is a lacrosse player. Some of them do suck, but definitely not all of them. Sorry about that; I just realized that "taking over the school" sounded like I had something against those people. I was simply stating that they are present.</p>

42

<p>So are there too many kids from mid-Atlantic or from the South?</p>

43

<p>I never said there are too many from either region; we have tons of kids from both areas. I get along with kids from both regions equally well.</p>

44

<p>Why does tradition need to be "fixed?" Did you ever think a lot of students come here precisely because it's insular?</p>

45

<p>I definitely did come here because it's insular. I think that being in an isolated area fosters better interpersonal relationships, as opposed to going to a large city school.</p>

<p>If you want to talk about tradition getting "fixed," that has nothing to do with the homogeneity of the student body. Believe it or not, tradition has been trampled all over at the school. We have gotten pretty far away from what the school initially intended to be. For example, the "Speaking Tradition" is totally null, and that's the fault of the student body. I almost always have to initiate the "hello." When I've tested it by letting the other person initiate it, it just doesn't happen. Then in the Greek realm, the houses really have changed significantly since their original inception. The problem is that students have LOST sight of tradition; it's not at all that I have a desire to CHANGE tradition... I'd prefer to keep the tradition as pure as possible.</p>

46

<p>Traditionally there were only men at this school. Really traditionally, it was a seminary. Do you want to bring it back to a all-male school for training ministers?</p>

<p>I love tradition. I would not be as enamored with schools like W&L or West Point if I didn't. But even the Academy with its Disgruntled Old Grads only half-jokingly says to never let progress interfere with tradition.</p>

47

<p>Yes, Motherdear, I completely agree. I want to keep some key aspects of our tradition, and in order to do that we actually need to make progress to return to those ideals. At the same time, we can make positive progress that actually breaks away from some other aspects of tradition of the school (ie all-male school for training ministers). Sometimes, though, I do see the merits of an all-male school. I've heard pretty positive things about what it was like back in the day.</p>

<p>And PPS to laxer-- the coolest girl I know in the school, who is dating my best friend, is a lax player. A lot of girls lax players are pretty sweet, I have to say.</p>

48

<p>I doubt anyone even caught this, but for my own sake: I should have used "eg" instead of "ie" in that post. Those years of Latin in HS do pay off sometimes! ;-)</p>

<p>And when I said that we've gotten far away from what the school "intended to be," I meant post-Robert E. Lee, as he was an extremely influential presence in the school. I've been studying a lot about the school under Lee in my Concept of Honor Philosophy seminar-- great Spring Term class-- yet another great thing about W&L. Spring term allows you to take some really cool, fun, and unique classes that aren't offered in Winter and Spring terms.</p>

49

<p>I would have to agree with HereWeGo. I know somewhat more than the average person on campus does and I find the actions of the EC disgraceful. The person accused of committing the crime was threatened to withdraw. Moreover, the jury pool was tainted and the EC's witnesses... lets just say were less than credible. While I am still at this school, I must say I am very dissappointed by the EC's actions and no longer believe in the honor system. They chose to ingore credible evidence from third parties that exonerated the accused. Quite frankly, they are a body of students that hold way too much power on campus.</p>

50

<p>Another anonymous poster who crops up just to complain about one case. Just a little suspicious.</p>

51

<p>i feel the same way, dima. ive read several complaints from current students on this thread which all seem to point out problems with corruption on the EC. but no proposed solutions or answers are given. what could be done to make the process more fair? are you all suggesting that the honor code be abolished? do you want the faculty/ administration to have a hand in the EC? although i am not yet a studet, none of these seem like good solutions to a problem which all of you seem eager to jump on but to which none of you can propose solutions.</p>

52

<p>I have issue with the use of the word 'threatened' - and the anonimity of a couple of 'disgruntled' folks - who may not completely understand the judicial system in place. There is a difference between being 'threatened' and being given a choice - ie - leave on own accord or face a hearing - that is not a threat by any means. This is NOT the first time that students have been 'asked' to leave the school - based on Honor Code violations - and it certainly won't be the last.</p>

<p>All who attend W&L - also agree to partake of the Honor Code and the judicial system in place - as part of being a student at the school. If one does not like the way things are - then those are the folks who would need to take action to create change - or get involved - and even then - may not be successful. So - If you don't like it - you also have a choice - do what you can to change it - live with it - or don't - but you don' t have the right to disembowel a system verbally because you don't agree with it and do nothing about it. The judicial system of W&L is based in history - based on Honor - and is well explained - for every student to read and know about.</p>

<p>KDBUDDY - please point out exactly what you refer to regarding problems with corruption on the EC - be specific - as I don't see it - I see complaining by a couple of unhappy folks - but nothing that would indicate dishonorable behavior by the EC. Soooo - step up to the plate and explain yourself please. And unless you were THERE and KNOW exactly what the offense was - not by any type of here-say - maybe you don't have the right to judge either - tread softly there - your complaining/statements could well be considered less than honorable as well.</p>

53

<p>Dima and Morgan- No offense but you have no idea what is going on. I know both of you on campus and I know you have no direct ties to the case. I, however, do. Although I cannot disclose facts because of confidentiality reasons and because I am still enrolled in the University, I know far more about the case than you will ever know. For all of you out there, please read the articles in The Trident- I found the posters strewn around campus and handed out by individuals other than the accused thoughtful and truthful. The student newspaper tells the stories of other students put in the same situation and forced to withdraw because of a tainted jury pool and unjust circumstances surrounding the case. All were given 48 hours to prepare for the biggest case of their life. How that makes any sense at all is beyond me.</p>

54

<p>Pirt- A good solution would be allowing a student to go to an open hearing without the treat of receiving "dismissed" on the transcript.</p>

55

<p>And JeepMOM- did you ever attend W&L? I believe it could be considered less than honorable to speak of something you have never experienced/ know about.</p>

56

<p>As an alumnus who saw more EC injustices during my time at W&L than I'd like to admit, perhaps some perspective from a person who has/had been there longer than a year...</p>

<p>The EC, while intending to do good, is capable of incredible mistakes and errors in judgement. The biggest problem is the insular, self-importance that members take on during their tenure. Frankly, behind closed doors they're changed people. During my time, I knew two former members (and since graduating another one) who admitted to me that after leaving the committee, they realized just how cultish it can get and how much it plays up to already large egos. EC campaigns aren't run on issues - they're run on popularity. By giving these popular 18-22 year olds unrestrained power, they become drunk on ego and the idea of not letting down "tradition" (whatever that means). </p>

<p>Finally, if you want to see the corruption that the EC is capable of, check out the issue of the Trident from April 1, 2004. <a href="http://www.thetrident.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.thetrident.org&lt;/a>. This kid was going to take it to open trial too until the EC loaded the jury so much (they went through nearly 60 kids before finding a jury of 14 - if you even disagreed in any way with their interpretation of the Honor System or single sanction, you were disqualified...basically, they looked for kids that would find him guilty) that he felt there was no way he could win. If you actually knew what went on during EC trials, you wouldn't hold the opinion that they're a bunch of saints. When threatened with exposure of their errors, the EC gets ugly. </p>

<p>By the way, the EC is in no way the "most respected" organization on campus. The only people who think they're "respected" are EC members and underclassmen who mistakenly view their position as some aspirational goal for achieving power and status. Most people don't care - that's why not even a third of the school votes in the elections. By the time you're a senior, they're a joke. Over time, after losing friend after friend for stupid mistakes - not damning offenses of character - you realize "Honor" isn't worth it. </p>

<p>Finally, all of the secrecy stuff isn't to protect the accused or the jury - it's to protect their asses. That's why they ban recording devices at the open trials. They don't want to be held accountable after everything is said and done. Again, I respect the secrecy before the trial, I just don't understand the compulsion with it post-trial. In my experience EC members were good people who were compelled into cowardice by the imagined importance of their position and fear of being embarrased. </p>

<p>By the way, so we're clear, I loved my experience at W&L. But upon reflection, if there's one part I could do without, it was the Honor System. I just didn't really see the value outside of some take home tests. W&L is a terrific school, but I would caution the freshmen on this board to wait a few more years once they've seen friends kicked out for stuff that's pretty innocuous and see if they feel the same way.</p>

57

<p>KD - ALUM parent - mean anything to you at all?? - so - yes - I can speak with honor!!</p>

<p>Seems you still have alot to learn.</p>

58

<p>WNLALUM - it sounds like alot of other systems in this country - just on a different level - but still - if it is broke - then fix it - that is the only solution open to those who feel as you do.</p>

59

<p>wnlalum, can you post the article? I can't get it to open even though I signed up.</p>

60

<p>JeepMom, I think the bigger problem is that even when you try to bring changes they're rejected. The EC, in my experience, is first and foremost concerned with protecting the EC, not ensuring that justice is carried out.</p>