Does anyone know about sending a reconsideration request for honors Carolina?
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You likely need to contact UNC and see if a reconsideration request will even be considered, particularly since the given āsolutionā is to apply for honors after first or second semester.
I know it can be done, and I heard on CC last year of at least one student who asked and was offered a slot. I believe the website has information about how to do this. You can also apply once youāre at UNC to join the program later.
Finally, there are many Honors Carolina opportunities that any student can apply to ā not just those in the program. This is not an Honors College like some places have.
Good luck!
Last year there was an online form you could submit for Honors Carolina reconsideration. My S submitted and was successful.
I believe there was a link from the Honors Carolina page on the UNC website.
Is your student within the Average for Honors Carolina?
Average High School Class Rank: Top 3%
Average SAT Score: 1420
Average ACT Score: 31
It also says: If you did not receive an invitation, please know that you may apply to join Honors Carolina during the spring semester of your first year at Carolina.
The problem with applying after attending is that someone offered honors and $$$ elsewhere who wants those opportunities may choose to go elsewhere and thus UNC may lose out on top in-state kids. Itās frustrating for kids who worked extremely hard hoping for this opportunity. I do not know what UNC is thinking when kids offered Excel do not get honors or kids with top 1-2% rank and SAT 1550-1590 are not offered honors from in-state.
@gungablue High stats arenāt a given for the honors program as a result of the holistic approach. Essays, activities, and recs factor very highly into how Honors Carolina makes its decisions. Iām sure theyāre not extremely concerned with in-state numbers. A good and talented majority of in-state students attend UNC regardless of honors designation due to it being such a prestigious in-state option so I donāt think theyāre really ālosing outā on very much.
I know a lot of people are really interested in being part of Honors at UNC. The thing is that for the people there it is not that big a deal and most top students donāt see the worth in it. It is not a separate honors college like University of South Carolina or some others which have special perks like housing and you can take honors classes at UNC without being part of the honors college. So, not to sound bad, but I donāt think UNC is too worried about losing top in-state kids because of honors. In a sense, the entire school is honors and there are very few opportunities available to honors students that arenāt available to the rest of the school. UNC will lose students to South Carolina Honors College which is a fabulous program that is very separate from the rest of the school and they do make it the same cost as in-state UNC. My advice would be to not let being part of the honors program be the determinant of whether you choose UNC as you will not have a much different experience either way. I would have the opposite advice of South Carolina as the honors college is definitely worth it.
@jdogNC ā I generally agree, but I will point out there is honors housing which I think if popular for first-years and last year that talked up new advising for honors students. But agree overall it shouldnāt be the determining factor.
@jdogNC I agree that they donāt seem too worried but some kids find the honors housing appealing for finding their tribe in college. @Pastpower, in terms of āholisticā admissions, this would be true at the other super competitive schools these kids are getting accepted at with merit $$$ or honors or both. For some of the kids I know, honors housing was a draw. For others, it was feeling recognized. For others, it was perks to potentially make UNC worth it paying in-state rates when private schools are free rides or other state publics (good ones!) offer honors and $$$. For kids competitive enough to be comparing highly selective privates and their state school, honors can make the state school feel better. When you compare to other states who work hard to keep top kids (NMFs for example) in state, UNC seems like an outlier. Remember when UNC gave full-tuition to NCSSM students? Then they didnāt. Now they do, but only one year which makes other schools with merit potentially cheaper options? They have a history of trying harder to keep top kids in the past.
I agree with gungablue. Many/most of the alternative options for top talent NC students accepted to UNC are of the caliber or above of UNC. Most also use a holistic approach.
For example, SCHC also takes a holistic approach in reviewing applications and weighs essays, recommendations, activities etc heavily. However, the academic stats for SCHC are still higher than Honors Carolina - median range SAT 1440-1520, avg 1490 and ACT 31-34, avg 33. Honors Carolina average basically equates to the 25th percentile for SCHC. I find it odd that the average stats for Honors Carolina are barely above the stats for UNC as a whole. They basically must all but ignore academic factors, which seems odd for an Honors program.
When an NC in-state student (with stats above Honors Carolina averages + strong ECs) is accepted to SCHC (top or one of the top HCs in the country) with scholarship $$$$ making OOS at SCHC the same or less cost than IS at UNC, and then are not offered Honors Carolina, it makes it a hard decision to stay. For one offer the student is definitely in the Honors College with all the perks (and SCHC has more than Honors Carolina) vs the other offer of āwell you can apply once you get hereā and maybe you get in and maybe you donāt (bird in the hand is better than two in the bush). Given the student already had above average stats, but wasnāt accepted, why would they have faith that they would be accepted once at UNC? What would change between now and then?
NC is the largest feeder state into SC (outside of South Carolina itself). SCHC is just one example of other options for top NC students.
Add to that other potential factors such as already accepted to the business school elsewhere, but only have a 50/50 chance of getting into KFBS (and if they didnāt get into Honors Carolina despite above average stats will they also not get into KFBS despite above average stats) and it gets even harder (another bird in the handā¦).
UNC can only accept so much OOS talent and if they also are not giving consideration to retaining top IS talent it will move the needle down some, not sure how much.
The impacts of UNCās āmeh come or notā attitude vs āplease come, we really want top talent hereā attitude of other places would make an interesting study.
The Honors Program at UNC is a solid program that does come with some benefits and is great if it is what you are looking for. It is not an Honors College like USC and is more like the honors programs at other top tier public universities. Honors students do not graduate UNC with any better or worse experience than the other students and in pretty much all cases at least 75% of the classes honors students take are the exact same as the rest of the university.
UNC entices top in-state candidates by being one of the top 5 elite public universities, being located in Chapel Hill, having world class programs in many disciplines, being less than $9,000 a year tuition and one of the best value educations you can get. UNC chooses, as does UVA, UC Berkely and most other top universities with business schools to have an admissions process a studentās sophomore year for admissions to get the best college students (not high school students) in the program. Some of these things can be frustrating for applicants because they want certainty and quite frankly think they deserve the special accolades based on high school grades and standardized tests.
There are some universities that need a better honors program or college, merit scholarships based on GPAās and standardized test, and other hooks to entice more top level students to apply. That is not UNC, and quite frankly is not any of the top 10 public universities. An in-state student gets a fabulous education at a top university for about $20K all in, compared with the private university competition at $70K plus. If a student is looking for the smaller LACās or special honors colleges, they are available elsewhere. UNC canāt be all things for all people and is doing a great job in general as representing our state.
@GetCollege19 my DS is going through this decision currently - whether to go to USC HC vs UNC/NCSU. The cost will end up being about the same in all 3 scenarios. He keeps coming back to the point @jdogNC makes, the perception is that the degree from UNC, being a top 5 elite public university, even if from a non-honors program, outweighs a degree from USC, even if it is from the honors program. Iād be interested in hearing alternate opinions or other reasons to go to USC HC, all else being equal (suitable interesting programs at each location, etc).
@Cheapdad00 I know students who have had fantastic experiences at USC HC. Reasons I can think of to prefer it ā better financial deal (Top Scholar awards and NMF make USC way cheaper than UNC in state). Desire for specific programs like international business that are extremely strong at USC. Desire for the investment USC makes in honors kids ā early research, help with interviews, help finding outside scholarships, etc. I think a tippy top student might be more noticeable at USC than UNC and thus have an easier time finding opportunities and mentors. For grad or professional school, those are the letter of rec writers that make a difference. Whether those things make it more appealing than UNC would depend on the student. I know someone who turned down Duke last year for USC HC.
@jdog I agree that for most students, UNC is a great deal for most kids who are in state. The kind of kids I was mentioning arenāt paying 70K for privates (except Ivy, Stanford and MIT) but are getting merit options that bring the cost down below UNC and thus UNC needs to entice these kids with more than the cost. There are huge merit awards at Wash U and Tulane and BC and UVA and Miami and Duke and Vanderbilt and Southern California, not to mention the free tuition or free rides for NMF at some many state schools other than UNC. I wish UNC would compete more for their own top kids.
@Cheapdad00 Yes, we are going through the exact same choices, plus another IS Honors College with scholarship $ making it about 1/2 the cost of UNC. I think overall it depends on the studentās desired major. If student wants International Business and has direct admit from USC HC, definitely there - itās #1 in US. If student wants engineering, or design, then NCSU makes more sense. Yes, UNC is an elite public university, but it is not tops in every major/field. Also, if you are guaranteed to be able to major in your first choice major at UNC, then it makes more sense than what we are facing.
Our familyās sticking point with UNC is trying to get comfortable with the business school admit piece as my student wants to major in a (non-IB) business field. What happens to the 50% that are not admitted to KFBS? They settle on a non-business major? Transfer?
It would be one thing if it was āif you meet the following requirements as a college student, you receive admission to KFBS,ā but admission is not objective, itās subjective - same as Honors Carolina. The KFBS website itself admits they have had to turn away many qualified applicants (and I suspect, as with general admission, that it isnāt a level playing field as to which qualified applicants are more likely to be turned away in order to meet certain goals). So, for us itās not about not being accepted to Honors Carolina or any Excel@Carolina itself (despite above average, even for UNC, academic stats and qualifications (like APs) + ECs, lots of community service, etc), so much as what does that imply for KFBS chances.
For jdog- itās not about feeling entitled, itās about the risk of not being able to pursue desired field of study and yes, some top business schools are like UNC, but certainly not all - Wharton is direct admit for example.
I think for mine it is coming down to - is UNCās āeliteā reputation alone worth potentially settling for a second choice (non-business) major and how would that impact future path over the certainty of 1st choice major somewhere else, especially USC HC/Darla Moore with all that has to offer (as long as a student remains in good standing).
Also, everyone we know who goes to USC or knows someone who goes there has had nothing to say but praise and LOVE it. UNC gets mixed reviews from those we know - some say their classes are fairly easy, some are super stressed, some like it, some are not happy - likely depends on what classes/fields they are in and how well their HS prepared them. None are gushing quite like those from USC.
I am an alum and long-time UNC/KFBS donor/supporter. Having my student attend UNC was always the hope, but right now even I am having a hard time getting excited about UNC over USC HC.
@Cheapdad00 the most important part of the transcript are the grades then the Institution. Honors or not on a transcript is mostly irrelevant. NC State has a fabulous honors program that lets kids register before any other undergrad and also has special sections (like UNC) for honors kids that tend to have better teachers and grade easier. However, at UNC the honors offering are very slim pickings especially in STEM stuff. My kids that did not go to UNC were going to take the money for research and not the honors college. @gungablue none of the Ivies give merit, the top LACs (mostly) donāt give merit. UNC has some merit money (morehead cain, carolina scholars) but there just arenāt enough for a school that big. Also, unless Duke and Vanderbilt have changed they donāt offer merit to more than a handful.
@GetCollege19 know several business professors at top B school; did not know this but they said for MBA they prefer physics, or math, or computer science under grad degree to business undergrad. They pointed out that Harvard, and none of the ivies except Penn offer undergrad business. Also williams and amherst that send a disproportionate amount of kids to Wall street donāt offer undergrad business degree. I didnāt realize this either but itās a common misconception.
https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Harvard-offer-an-undergraduate-business-degree
@Cheapdad00 and others: we are in the same boat. USC HC, UNC and NC sate. So far she is not impressed with UNC. I was estatic she got into it and am pretty bummed she doesnāt want to go. She went to the USC HC reception and is so excited for that program, she said sheād be totally fine there. Our NC state visit is Monday for 2nd look. So far I have heard nothing but wonderful things about USC HC & most of what I hear about NC state is good also. I have a niece at USC who is in capstone and she loves going to school there. As far as UNC, I also have heard many mixed reviews from parents and students. Iāve heard comments that UNC doesnāt seem to care much about recruiting but I suppose they figure they donāt need to. NC state is the likely other contender for D since she is an environmental science major, and its well known for the sciences. The difficulty now between NC state and USCHC is- will she have better options being in a school like NC state known for sciences (and well connected faculty) and close to research triangle, or better at the honors college considering possible extra opportunities that the honorās college may provide. Ironically UNC has the largest number of environmental science majors (95) vs 45 at State and 35 at USC. She doesnāt want to base it off of that in case she decides to change majors though. Iād love to know how the rest of you/your kids decideā¦Decisions decisions!
Thanks for all of the replies. We still dont have a strong feeling as to desired majors. At this point in time, DS doesnt have a passion for engineering or other STEM disciplines, so that probably puts NCSU in 3rd place.
@gungablue, DS was a few points below NMF and wont be getting Top Scholars, so all 3 will cost about the same. DS has also not expressed an interest in IB or Business in general, so any of the automatic or nearly admission to business schools arent pertinent at this time.
@GetCollege19 Do you think your childās chance for admission to KFBS would be higher than 50% as that figure includes students from tier 1 and 2 counties who may not have the background yours does?
@anon145 I tend to agree with your B school professor friends in regards to undergraduate business schools. First from my own experience at UNC where one of my roommates was a business major (early 1990s). He would search out the classes he could take where taking the regular tests was not a requirement and if you skipped them it would make the next ones count for more of your grade. He would go to class the first day to get the syllabus and then not attend again until the final exam, for which he had spent 3 days and nights cramming the material. The exam was then worth 100%. He usually scored anywhere between a C+ and B using that methodology. I was a Physics major and if someone could do that and have some success, it made me doubt the complexity of the curriculum. [He was a born salesperson who could sell ice to an eskimo, and made a mint in several sales roles immediately after school].
Wall street has loved STEM majors over the last 20+ years, perhaps too much as the quants have about crashed the markets several times.
Just a few comments:
- For the person saying UPenn/Wharton is direct admit to the business school. Good luck getting in. Been there, done that. It is an exception rather than rule. UNC has chosen the method that works best for the school. It may alienate or otherwise cause some people to choose elsewhere without the certainty, but its method is more the norm. I do understand the concern though. Hopefully expanding KFBS will help with this issue, but that probably won't effect many people on here. I do think in general, people have the same issue at the other top state business schools where there is no certainty. My D would have been royally ticked if she had not gotten in, but she did the work, joined the clubs, got the internships and got in. As an aside, some of the direct admits have trouble in the prereqs like accounting or two Econ classes. Just because one thinks they want business out of high school doesn't mean that will be best. From the university standpoint, by choosing after they take business prereqs at the college level and engage in clubs, etc ensures you get the student that have what it takes to succeed at the college level. I sincerely do understand wanting the certainty though.
- For the MBA professor comments, most MBA's are for people without a business background or they have other experience. Most people have liberal arts degrees of some kind and bring different experiences to the table. Math is popular for all the quantitative specialties there are these days. There is not much of a reason to get an MBA if you have an undergraduate business degree. Most of the first year is taking the general business courses which undergraduate business majors already have. Most top undergraduate programs, UNC included, have a wide variety of classes and specialties that make an MBA mute in most cases.
- KFBS, or any of the schools at UNC, make it pretty difficult to not attend class, take a final worth 100% of the grade and still pass. KFBS is small classes, participation and attendance required and as discussed has students with top marks at the school. The only exception I can think of this is the unmentionable curriculum UNC that caused all the NCAA angst.
- Some of this discussion has shifted to UNC not doing enough to keep the best students. That's a difficult one. UNC has the reputation, the low cost, the programs to attract top students. Generally if you are a top student, you could choose the private schools (where UNC competes on cost and programs) or another school with a program you like such USC Honors (where your desire for what they offer outweighs UNC's reputation) or choose UNC. UNC does have scholarships such as Morehead and Robertson that target those that would otherwise go to the Ivies. Guess I just don't see it here. With 18K undergrad and the number of top students choosing and attending UNC, I just don't see a public school doing much more.