Honors programs at low-prestige schools?

<p>My son is at Ohio University's Honors Tutorial College. Those who say that all honors programs are similar or that it is not substantially different from the normal university experience are misinformed. What other program gives you no hours requirements for graduation other than what you work out with your advisor for YOUR course of study, or gives you one-on-one classes with professors in the courses in your major, or allows you to take ANY courses in the school - even graduate level - with no prerequisites. It is very difficult to get into. Unlike schools who accept 10% of the applicants into "honors," OU only accepts 60 people per year to HTC. Spread across 26 majors, that is an average of only 2 students per major being accepted into HTC.</p>

<p>However, it is not for everyone. The student must be VERY self-directed, independent, and have a long-standing passion for the subject. It is not for someone who is wondering what to major in. In my son's portfolio DVD (films), he included films made back when he was 9 years old, to show that this was a long-term commitment.</p>

<p>HTC is only for students who know what they want and have the drive (and humor, as Garrity said) to make it happen. It is certainly not a place to avoid attention. Being the only student in a tutorial (class) does not allow you to avoid discussion or hide in the back row. And even a B-minus in a course will get you called in for a conference with the dean. The perks are incredible, but the expectations and demands are incredible too.</p>

<p>To Mrhazel44: I live in AZ, and have multiple friends attending both UofA's honors college, and Barrett. </p>

<p>UofA selects their honors students based on raw scores, and the program is actually seen as more of a perk to students (special advising, priority registration, honors dorms) rather than an actual honors college itself.</p>

<p>Barrett selects its students based on scores, EC's, and a heavily weighted essay. Barrett is a bit tougher to get into generally, but both programs offer the same advantages throughout. </p>

<p>Garrity will continue to criticize Arizona schools, specifically ASU and their strategies to recruit honors-level students, which is obviously working because ASU enrolls the fourth largest amount of National Merit Scholars, behind Harvard, Northwestern, and Yale. Yes, Barrett is no PSU honors college, or OU, but for a university that is perceived as pure partying (which it's not), it offers a different strategy to complete a college education for a good price. </p>

<p>Like I've said before, if someone goes to ASU wanting to scrape by with an honors education, then they will, but there are many honors students looking to satisfy their craving for learning, and ASU can offer that, only if you take advantage of it. I'm going to Barrett, and I will enjoy my education, and the academia that the university offers, regardless of its perceived drawbacks. If anything, only good can come out of the opportunities.</p>

<p>Barretts and U of A both have good honors programs. For freshman in AZ Barretts is actually easier to get into and gives better aid. My D was accepted into Barretts as a freshman but not into U of A honors and recieved great money at Barretts. She recieved a scholarship at U of A which was much less. We know many students at Barretts who had great internships and now are in good grad programs due to the opportunities they had with less stress then many of their peers at tier 1 schools. Some attended reluctantly due to financial pressures after being accepted to Ivys and ended up being very happy despite this. My D transferred as a sophomore from U of San Diego's honors college to U of A's honors program and is quite happy. Many of her honors classes are small, they require a theses and have opportunities to workclosely with professors on research. There are some honors classes you can take where you attend a regular class and have an honors discussion group but you don't have to opt for those. My D is happy and thriving. College will be what you make of it and students can have more money to pursue grad school with less debt or they can go to a top tier school. My son is at Pomona and my D at a state honors college and both meet their individual needs.</p>

<p>U. of Arkansas, U. of Fla.....(low prestige outside of Florida, high prestige within Fla... go figure)</p>

<p>ASU buys NMF with scholarship and housing money and is an aggressive marketer that has largely failed to deliver with respect to course offerings, housing,& HAD a grading policy which resulted in the loss of many,many,many scholarships. The folks at Barrett make false claims- such as stating that Barrett is the only honors college using law profs for honors courses- which are so ridicuously incorrect that they are either grossly mis informed or worse. Many wondered if the scholarship loss WAS by design as sophomores have little chance to transfer and receive financial aid or scholarship money. The outrage was so pervasive that Barrett had to change grading policies and standards for scholarship retention. ASUs Barrett's Honors College now-starting next year-is charging honors students to be in Barretts. Footnote 18 & footnote 19 courses make up a large % of "honors" courses at Barrett, and they are not true honors courses. That being written, and it has been written several times on this web site by me and by several Barrett's students, any honors program or college is better than none unless it involves fraudulent type "promises". U. of Arizona is what you make of it, but lacks true honors housing- mixed "honors" halls- and lacks the structure found in top 25 or so honors programs and colleges. ASUs problems are and have been well known for the past two years outside of this web site. Barretts keeps promising to start building new housing after multiple delays. ASU and Arizona are discussed because both are frequently mentioned on this site.</p>

<p>wow Garrity - thats some eye-opening stuff and a real warning to parents and students - check these programs out carefully.
Of course, all of the programs do marketing - just like regular universities do. And sometimes, the marketing at honors colleges DOES go overboard, as they know they are competing with Ivies and other top schools.
Overall, we have had a very positive experience at SHC (PSU). But we were aware that some students were sold on the program as a "small liberal arts college" like Williams or Swarthmore. Not even close. You really have to be comfortable in a big environment. I think they're doing a better job getting that across in sessions now. And the new Dean (from Tulane) seems to be bringing a lot of positive energy and change. But, I'm still curious as to what the retention rate is at honors colleges. That would be a good sign of how well the school is doing in portraying "fit" and following through on their promises.
All in all, there is a real need for better information on these programs.</p>

<p>All honors programs and colleges, well almost all, are better than the regular large state school courses. Arizona students and parents attend and are familiar with Arizona schools due to in-state tuition, geographical proximity and familiarity due to friends, family and alumni. ASU and U. of Arizona have weaknesses and problems that deserve attention. Neither honors college is where it should be, but that can change in the next three to six years if issues are brought out in the open and not swept under the rug and hidden, and adequate funding and proper sopport are given. Barrett opened themselves to criticism by very aggressive marketing practices and scholarship offers that it cannot and has not sustained.</p>

<p>Retention at honors programs and colleges is tricky because many feel "trapped" as transferring as a sophomore is a financial nightmare and a social trauma, and because many leave the honors program but remain at the school or are permitted to jump in and out of the honors program or college. Some honors programs and colleges only allow or only require one course per term or year. Many upper level engineering, math and science majors don't need or want honors courses beyond the first two years due to the intense demands of those majors.</p>

<p>Agree that retention is "tricky" but it still should be measured and reported. And perhaps student satisfaction too (to catch those "trapped" souls). I guess those that don't offer significant financial incentives (like full tuition) have less trapped souls.<br>
I see a "fact sheet" for each program. Done by an objective outside party to help cut through marketing and hype. Perhaps the programs would develop more discipline if this was available, and they knew that parents and students were seeking out this type of standard reporting. Do you see that happening anytime soon?</p>

<p>No, because most honors programs and colleges deliver on their stated benefits.</p>

<p>mrhazel - see the attached editorial on U Of A honors. Like what garrity warns - they have some issues to clear up.
<a href="http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/media/storage/paper997/news/2006/09/21/Opinions/Honors.College.Graduation.Rate.A.Shame-2289759.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/media/storage/paper997/news/2006/09/21/Opinions/Honors.College.Graduation.Rate.A.Shame-2289759.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>^^___ incredible...</p>

<p>I think too many kids join an "honors program" just to get preferred housing, or perhaps the small extra scholarship it might come with. </p>

<p>Also, schools use it as bait for their admissions offer (you are so special...). </p>

<p>On nearly every campus tour the thing they tout most about their honors program is better housing. Well, what kid doesn't want a fancy dorm room that first year?</p>

<p>So, it can't be much of a surprise that in many cases kids aren't really committed to it. Neither the school NOR the kids really even understand what the program is supposed to be. </p>

<p>(Clearly, I'm not talking about a program like OU's though.)</p>

<p>weenie - agree with your comments. My s was invited into the honors program at one of the privates he was accepted to. Not much there other than flexibility on course requirements and a few seminars. We had to read the letter three times and we were still confused. I believe he was invited strictly on his GPA and SAT scores.
Saying all honors programs are the same is like saying all universities are the same. They're quite different and vary significantly in quality.
But I agree with Garrity that most DO offer benefits over the regular university experience - some more than others. And a few stand out as models.</p>

<p>Someone earlier on this thread asked about the University of Pittsburgh's Honors College. I second the question. My daughter was also accepted to ASU Barrett Honors College and the University of Maryland College Park Scholars (not Honors). If anyone has any firsthand knowledge of these programs, I would appreciate it! She wants to study Japanese language and culture.</p>

<p>I joined this conversation late, but here's some worthwhile information from the National Collegiate Honors Council regarding what makes a fully developed honors program or college. It's a good checklist for parents and students when evaluating honors programs/colleges at particular colleges and universities.</p>

<p>"Basic Characteristics of a Fully Developed Honors Program</p>

<p>No one model of an honors program can be superimposed on all types of institutions. However, there are characteristics which are common to successful, fully-developed honors programs. Listed below are those characteristics, although not all characteristics are necessary for an honors program to be considered a successful and/or fully-developed honors program. </p>

<p>A fully-developed honors program should be carefully set up to accommodate the special needs and abilities of the undergraduate students it is designed to serve. This entails identifying the targeted student population by some clearly articulated set of criteria (e.g., GPA, SAT score, a written essay). A program with open admission needs to spell out expectations for retention in the program and for satisfactory completion of program requirements. </p>

<p>The program should have a clear mandate from the institutional administration ideally in the form of a mission statement clearly stating the objectives and responsibilities of the program and defining its place in both the administrative and academic structure of the institution. This mandate or mission statement should be such as to assure the permanence and stability of the program by guaranteeing an adequate budget and by avoiding any tendency to force the program to depend on temporary or spasmodic dedication of particular faculty members or administrators. In other words, the program should be fully institutionalized so as to build thereby a genuine tradition of excellence.</p>

<p>The honors director should report to the chief academic officer of the institution.</p>

<p>There should be an honors curriculum featuring special courses, seminars, colloquia and independent study established in harmony with the mission statement and in response to the needs of the program.</p>

<p>The program requirements themselves should include a substantial portion of the participants' undergraduate work, usually in the vicinity of 20% or 25% of their total course work and certainly no less than 15%. Students who successfully complete Honors Programs requirements should receive suitable institutional recognition. This can be accomplished by such measures as an appropriate notation on the student's academic transcript, separate listing of Honors Graduates in commencement programs, and the granting of an Honors degree.</p>

<p>The program should be so formulated that it relates effectively both to all the college work for the degree (e.g., by satisfying general education requirements) and to the area of concentration, departmental specialization, pre-professional or professional training.</p>

<p>The program should be both visible and highly reputed throughout the institution so that it is perceived as providing standards and models of excellence for students and faculty across the campus.</p>

<p>Faculty participating in the program should be fully identified with the aims of the program. They should be carefully selected on the basis of exceptional teaching skills and the ability to provide intellectual leadership to able students.</p>

<p>The program should occupy suitable quarters constituting an honors center with such facilities as an honors library, lounge, reading rooms, personal computers and other appropriate decor.</p>

<p>The director or other administrative officer charged with administering the program should work in close collaboration with a committee or council of faculty members representing the colleges and/or departments served by the program.</p>

<p>The program should have in place a committee of honors students to serve as liaison with the honors faculty committee or council who must keep the student group fully informed on the program and elicit their cooperation in evaluation and development. This student group should enjoy as much autonomy as possible conducting the business of the committee in representing the needs and concerns of all honors students to the administration, and it should also be included in governance, serving on the advisory/policy committee as well as constituting the group that governs the student association.</p>

<p>There should be provisions for special academic counseling of honors students by uniquely qualified faculty and/or staff personnel. </p>

<p>The honors program, in distinguishing itself from the rest of the institution, serves as a kind of laboratory within which faculty can try things they have always wanted to try but for which they could find no suitable outlet. When such efforts are demonstrated to be successful, they may well become institutionalized, thereby raising the general level of education within the college or university for all students. In this connection, the honors curriculum should serve as a prototype for educational practices that can work campus-wide in the future. </p>

<p>The fully-developed honors program must be open to continuous and critical review and be prepared tochange in order to maintain its distinctive position of offering distinguished education to the best students in the institution.</p>

<p>A fully-developed program will emphasize the participatory nature of the honors educational process by adopting such measures as offering opportunities for students to participate in regional and national conferences, honors semesters, international programs, community service, and other forms of experiential education.</p>

<p>Fully-developed two-year and four-year honors programs will have articulation agreements by which honors graduates from two-year colleges are accepted into four-year honors programs when they meet previously agreed-upon requirements.</p>

<p>There are many excellent honors programs and colleges throughout the country. Here's a plug for one of them, Texas Tech's Honors College. A couple differentiating items about Tech's Honors College. First, it is one of only a few honors colleges in the country that have faculty whose appointment is specifically in the honors college and it is one of only a handful that offer majors specifically in the honors college for honors students. The dean of Tech's Honors College, Gary Bell, is a nationally known expert on honors colleges and has been retained by other universities to evaluate their honors programs. For instance, Dean Bell in the last few years has critiqued the honors programs at University of North Texas and Abilene Christian University.</p>

<p>In post 27 there is a reference to "One self proclaimed expert on honors colleges claims that his daughter attends both Univ. of Texas Plan II Honors as well as Rhodes College in Memphis, Tenn. at the same time." One of the most prolific, witty, and informed posters on this Board is Curmudgeon whose daughter is a freshman at Rhodes College. I can not envision a scenario where Curmudgeon claimed his daughter attended both UT's Plan II and Rhodes. Regardless, Curmudgeon's advice and comments are always welcome to me (including comments on honors programs) as he has a lot to offer others via a very successful college search adventure that his family pursued over a couple years.</p>

<p>If you live in the NYC area, you can apply to the CUNY honors college. It is free for the four years you're there and they give you $7500 study abroad grants and a free laptop. Furthermore you can take classes in any of the colleges in the CUNY system.</p>

<p>Anybody have anything good or bad to say about the University of Arizona's Honors College? The graduation rate doesn't really worry me too much, but honors courses that are just as big as regular university courses seem like a bit of a problem. Priority registration and generally smaller classes seem like a pretty nice perk, though. Any thoughts?</p>