<p>Sakky, That you keep going on about this is interesting. I will tell you again that many top students in Virginia are quite happy with UVa and William and Mary . Harvard, etc. are not the ultimate goal of all families. UVa was not a safety school at all for my son. He looked at Duke and Princeton (and had some athletic interest from Princeton and Caltech) but could not justify the cost difference. In addition, UVa was the best fit for him overall with its ’ social life, athletics,etc. Unless you are affluent or want to beat the bushes for merit aid, you cannot beat the top Virginia public schools. And in addition, being educated with the “tail end” as you say of students has its benefits. This is real life. It takes more to make the world go around than the highest stat kids on the planet.</p>
<p>Again, nobody is saying that Harvard and other schools are the top goal for all families. But undoubtedly, they are the top goal for some. Similarly, I think you would agree that if everybody at UVA was offered a free transfer to Harvard, many students (not all, but many) would take it. </p>
<p>And that’s my point. I dream of a world where Berkeley (or UVA) were considered the #1 undergrad school for everybody, where even most Harvard undergrad students wish they were going to Berkeley (or UVA) instead. Sadly, that’s probably going to remain a dream. Given a free transfer, far more students would happily transfer from Berkeley or UVA to Harvard than from Harvard to Berkeley or UVA.</p>
<p>Sakky, With all due respect, I certainly do not agree that most students would transfer to Harvard. I don’t think my kid would have been happy at Harvard and certainly would never have left UVa for Harvard. It would be a better fit possibly for grad school but he wanted a more big time sports, social scene for undergrad. Harvard undergrad is a great school but not for everyone.</p>
<p>Sakky, Something anecdotal since you imply any top student in Virginia is really wanting to go to Harvard, Duke,etc. Local guy we know is a Duke alum and helps with local meetings by Duke reps to promote Duke. His own kids went to UVa. His youngest was accepted to Duke but waitlisted to UVa a few years ago. Got off UVa’s waitlist and went to UVa. Saved 10’s of thousands of dollars because of that. Saw them at 1st year orientation with our son and they seemed quite happy with their choice.</p>
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<p>Well, since you opened the door… I know some California residents who had dreamed of attending Berkeley their entire childhoods throughout K-12. But then they were admitted to Harvard, and found that the overall price they would have to pay, after factoring in financial aid, would actually be cheaper at Harvard than at Harvard, mostly because of the highly generous financial aid that Harvard provides that Berkeley, sadly, does not. Harvard guarantees that parents making less than $60k would not have to contribute a dime towards financial aid; a guarantee that Berkeley (and I suspect UVA) will not make. I will always remember one of them mordantly and sarcastically commenting that he had always dreamed of going to Berkeley, but he couldn’t afford it, so he had “no choice” but to go to Harvard. </p>
<p>Nor am I the only one saying it. Here’s what Robert Birgeneau, Chancellor of Berkeley has said:</p>
<p>*“It will cost less for a student from a family with an income of $180,000 to go to Harvard than for a student with a family income of $90,000 to go to Berkeley,” he said, taking into account Harvard’s recent decision to give more financial aid to families earning up to $180,000 annually.</p>
<p>“I’m not criticizing Harvard,” Dr. Birgeneau added. “They have done a great thing. I wish we were in a position to do it.”* </p>
<p><a href=“Endowments Widen a Higher Education Gap - The New York Times”>Endowments Widen a Higher Education Gap - The New York Times;
<p>Now, I concede the point : you probably indeed know more about what is happening in the state of Virginia than I do. Nevertheless, I doubt that the situation between California and Virginia is entirely different: I suspect that a poor, but highly capable student in Virginia would garner at least as attractive of a financial deal from Harvard as it would from UVA. Put another way, Harvard is basically willing to guarantee a full ride for anybody whose family makes less than $60k a year. I know Berkeley or any other UC won’t match that. I challenge UVa to match it - will they do it? Or W&M or Virginia Tech? In other words, will they match the following?</p>
<p>In 2007, Harvard introduced a new financial aid plan that dramatically reduced the amount that families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay. Families with incomes above $120,000 and below $180,000 with assets typical for these income levels are asked to contribute 10 percent of their incomes. For those families with incomes below $120,000, the parental contribution declines steadily from 10 percent, reaching zero for those with incomes at $60,000 and below.</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/03/harvard-increases-undergraduate-financial-aid-by-9-percent-for-2010-11/[/url]”>http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/03/harvard-increases-undergraduate-financial-aid-by-9-percent-for-2010-11/</a></p>
<p>If not, then I think it is clearly true that poor but highly talented Virginians are, frankly, better off at Harvard than at any Virginia public schools. What that then means is that UVA caters to the middle-class of Virginians: those not poor enough to qualify for full rides at the Ivies, and also not rich enough to care about the cost. But that’s not exactly the most inspiring of slogans.</p>
<p>The family I spoke about is affluent, just didn’t see the need to pay more for Duke. UVa has AccessUVa, so yes people with limited resources can get help and would be able to get most if not all paid for if admitted, similar to other top universities.</p>
<p>Sakky, UVa has AccessUVa to help low income students. Similar to other programs. Look into it. About your issues with middle income, that is true. We are not low income but not affluent either. It is great that schools are starting to address that. Too late for us but glad it is being addressed.</p>
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<p>Sakky, this is just about the worst argument I’ve ever seen. There are only about 8 or 10 private schools that have yields higher than UVA. Let’s look at the yields of some top 20 PRIVATE schools to put the yield figures for the top publics in perspective:</p>
<p>School / # admitted / # enrolled / yield %</p>
<p>Caltech / 674 / 252 / 37%
Dartmouth / 2,279 / 1,094 / 48%
Duke / 4,219 / 1,723 / 41%
Chicago / 3,708 / 1,336 / 36%
Northwestern / 6,887 / 2,128 / 31%
Johns Hopkins / 4,308 / 1,349 / 31%
Wash U / 5,128 / 1,510 / 29%
Cornell / 6,565 / 3,181 / 48%
Rice / 2,495 / 894 / 36%
Vanderbilt / 3,899 / 1,599 / 38%
Emory / 4,627 / 1,315 / 28%
Georgetown / 3,682 / 1,555 / 42%</p>
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<p>I actually think UVA (48%), UC Berkeley (41%) and Michigan (41%) acquit themselves quite well in this competition. </p>
<p>QED</p>
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Interesting… But what exactly do you mean by that?</p>
<p>Caltech is boring. Cal is fun. [YouTube</a> - Chris Brown “For Ur Love” Music Video (Cover) - Cal Men’s Soccer Team 2010](<a href=“Chris Brown "For Ur Love" Music Video (Cover) - Cal Men's Soccer Team 2010 - YouTube”>Chris Brown "For Ur Love" Music Video (Cover) - Cal Men's Soccer Team 2010 - YouTube)! :D</p>
<p>^Cal being funner than CalTech says practically nothing at all. </p>
<p>No one I knew in California ever called Berkeley “fun” until I came to CollegeConfidential. It’s definitely not fun relative to Stanford or USC, two of its frequent cross-admitted schools. -.-</p>
<p>^ You offer a lot of misconceptions and myths. You’re one funny guy. </p>
<p>The vast majority of students at Berkeley love their alma mater school, are proud of their school and are happy being enrolled in their school. Of course, there are those who regretted going there. But you’re talking about people that you can count with your fingers. I would not compare the level of hapiness at those schools you mentioned. The guy I just met who just graduated from USC told me a lot of negatives about going there and how he’d wished he has gotten into Stanford or Berkeley.</p>
<p>@No one I knew in California ever called Berkeley “fun” until I came to CollegeConfidential. It’s definitely not fun relative to Stanford or USC, two of its frequent cross-admitted schools. -.-</p>
<p>ROTFLMAO</p>