How accepting are the Ivies?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I hope to go to an Ivy League school next year. I am applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Dartmouth, and I'm wondering what the atmosphere is like at these colleges. I've heard a variety of opinions, but I want to know for certain. I am a devout Pentecostal Christian, and I want to go to a university that is tolerant and respectful of my beliefs and offers great opportunities to grow in my faith. Harvard is by far my top choice, but I believe that Princeton is the university that most closely offers what I'm looking for.</p>

<p>Do you guys have any opinions?</p>

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<p>Generally very far-left, progressive. In light of your personal faith and its values, you can get this. Anecdotally, you will find many faithful fellow Christians at any of these. Most will be closeted, or at least quiet about their faith. It’ll not be like Liberty or Grove City, for sure. None of these places are tolerant, at least when it comes to 1st Amendment issues. “Social justice” will be the battle cry, but never “follow Me.” That’s a guarantee. While none of these has a anti-Christian KKK type association to come and get you, you’ll be in the severe minority. Remember what JC warned, that when you’re found out to be one of His followers, you’ll be despised. My guess is that will mean more like “snickers” about your beliefs, couched in tolerance and respect, with few embracing or nurturing your freedom to believe in Jesus Christ. In terms of growth and development, institutionally these are lands of the lost, I’m afraid. Lots of anecdotal witness, virtually no pervasive Christianity anymore. It’s deemed just one more of the world’s religions, where Islam and atheism are likely deemed far more “cool.” Lots of missionary opportunities in these odd bastions of so-called intellectualism founded by Christians who were forced out the back door.</p>

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<p>You might think about contacting the Intervarsity chapters at these schools. The undergraduate members could tell you what their experience has been. If you’re not familiar with Intervarsity, you can find out more at intervarsity.org</p>

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<p>Check the clubs and activities info on the schools’ web sites; see what you can learn about the religious orgs, Bible studies, etc. Don’t just ask here, this is too important to you. Also, consider contacting the school pastors or chaplains- they are usually very welcoming and willing to answer questions. And see what choices of churches are in the immediate areas, what they are up to. (Important especialy for P and D, which are smaller communities.)</p>

<p>My young friend at NYU was warned how impossible it would be for her-- and is thrilled with her ability to express her faith and is highly involved with Hillsong. Some of her friends are religous, others are not.</p>

<p>But, you have to understand that, while you rest your faith on the Bible, profs will ask you to explore resources that may be contrary to your faith. If you can do that, super. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Very diverse! Only about 50% of the professors will have made it their personal mission to disabuse incoming students of your type beliefs.</p>

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<p>The idea that a believing Christian will be “despised” at the Ivies, or that half of the teachers will be trying to destroy your faith, is, to put it as kindly as possible, baloney. I speak from personal knowledge, both as an alumnus and as a parent of current students. There are plenty of religious kids, and there are active Christian groups at all of the schools.</p>

<p>But you may not feel comfortable if you have strong views on a couple of specific issues. For example, if you are strongly against gay rights, you will be in a small minority. This is also true with respect to abortion–although less so, because of the presence of Catholic students. Finally, if you don’t believe in evolution, people won’t think you are very bright. If any of those points outrage you, don’t apply.</p>

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<p>I agree with Hunt … I also and alum and parent of current student(s). IMO the one thing that might draw a negative reaction from a lot of people is if you proselytize … I would guess that would not be well received by a fair number of people.</p>

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<p>How could you have personal knowledge of all of the Ivies? Or even all of the professors at one Ivy?</p>

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I have very good knowledge of one Ivy, because I went there and my kids go there now. I have pretty good personal knowledge of several more, and honestly, they aren’t all that different from each other in many respects (including this one).</p>

<p>And contrary to myths promoted by some folks, they are generally pretty tolerant, live-and-let-live kinds of places. They include people with lots of views–and most people aren’t all that interested in your views. The exception, though, is that if you have views that seem intolerant, and if you want to broadcast those views. As I’ve said before, if (for example) you are strongly opposed to gay rights, you will face a lot of blowblack at Ivies, because there will be many openly gay students, and most of the students, gay and non-gay, will support gay rights. Abortion will be similar, but significantly less explosive, because there will be many more people with diffeent views about that. Gun control? Very few people will agree with you if you’re against it, but they won’t care very much. Same for most other issues. Most people won’t really care about your specific religious views at all.</p>

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<p>OP: I doubt that you’ll encounter anything out of the norm at Harvard or Princeton due to your religious beliefs & practices. Dartmouth & Cornell as well. Not as sure about Brown & Columbia so it would be good to hear from those folks. Yale has a well known divinity school. Regardless, expect to grow & expect to offer some diversity to your dorm & campus.
For all of these schools, I think that respect for the opinions & beliefs of others as well as for your own will be the key.</p>

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<p>Oh, Christianity. Never disappoints.</p>

<p>Try google. [The</a> Holy and the Ivy | Christianity Today](<a href=“http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/september/26.64.html?paging=off]The”>http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/september/26.64.html?paging=off)</p>

<p>It’s not Christianity most nonChristians dislike. It’s the religious right. I love the imagery the article uses — “diamonds on black velvet.”</p>

<p>They don’t even seem to notice how much of a complete ******* it makes that guy seem like.</p>

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<p>Yale’s divinity school doesn’t have much impact on undergrad life.</p>

<p>I will say that any of these schools–and many others–may be a culture shock to any student who has grown up in an environment that is not very diverse. With respect to religion in particular, if you have gone to a Christian high school and live in a community in which most people share similar beliefs, you are going to find the situation to be very different at many colleges and universities. In many ways it’s a good thing to have that broadening experience, but it can be disorienting when you find yourself around people who strongly disagree with things that you and those around you have always taken as a given.</p>

<p>Philovitist, that article from Christianity Today is not bad. I do think that some of the Christians quoted overstate the supposedly harsh environment and the “diamonds on black velvet” contrast, which is not too surprising.</p>

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<p>So they are intolerant of intolerance, eh? with them defining what is “intolerant”. </p>

<p>How dare someone compare their community to diamonds! Harrumph!</p>

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<p>Great article. Thanks for the link.</p>

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<p>Definitely a good article. I wouldn’t have quoted it if I didn’t think so. ^_^</p>

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<p>“Intolerant” has a pretty standard definition among English speaking peoples.</p>

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<p>It’s more the calling everyone else black velvet that irks me.</p>

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<p>:rolleyes:</p>

<p>Amazing. Some people just don’t grasp common forum rules.</p>

<p>Everyone, please keep your dogma to yourselves.</p>

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<p>I thought black velvet was too much as an image as well. There are many students at Ivies (and other schools) who have strong ethics and social consciences, even if they aren’t very religious. There’s lots of community service. (Which is why I never thought “they’ll know we are Christians by our love” was a particularly effective method of proselytizing, either). Religious kids probably do stand out more when it comes to some behaviors, though, like drinking and sexual morality. But again, this is not something peculiar to the Ivies (indeed, they are probably relatively muted in this respect compared to a lot of other colleges).</p>

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<p>There are definitely Christians on campus (at Harvard and elsewhere)–from the practically agnostic UUs to evangelical Protestant Asians and devout Mormons and Irish Catholics and openly gay college Republicans who also happen to be Christian and everything you can think of in between. </p>

<p>I agree with Hunt. If you want everyone to share your religious beliefs and you want to go around obnoxiously spreading your beliefs, then you’ll get a lot of push back. Ironically, though I’m sure there were a number of agnostics/atheists/freethinkers among the student body, I never once, in my 3 years as a student there, heard anyone try to convince me there was no god. In fact, I still don’t know about the religious beliefs of many people, nor do I care very much.</p>

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<p>Brown grad - granted it was years ago - and in my experience, intelligent conversation on religious subjects by informed and educated, rational people was interesting and elevating. Judging people for thinking differently from you was not encouraged or supported.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>Can I ask why Harvard is your top choice? Do they have a particular program that the others don’t have?</p>

<p>I’ll share my (very limited) experience as the parent of a (conservative) Christian who applied to several Ivies.</p>

<p>My pastor and his wife graduated from Princeton many years ago. They consider it, like most colleges, to be a secular and “dark” campus wherein you, as a follower of Christ, can shine your light. There is an excellent Christian support group that I’m familiar with, Princeton Evangelical Fellowship, that was one of several main draws for my son to apply to Princeton. The other draw to Princeton was their outstanding math and physics programs.</p>

<p>We visited U Penn and Princeton during his junior year together and then he was flown in to visit Princeton during his senior year after he was accepted. I thought it was a lovely school and my son has a couple of very nice friends there who showed us around. We also were able to worship with PEF (Princeton Evangelical Fellowship) which was a great experience.</p>

<p>On my son’s trip by himself, he also met up with the PEF. On that trip, he got a little different view and felt that most of the clubs he saw “advertised” were very liberal. He also didn’t meet too many other STEM kids, and ultimately, he felt that’s what he wanted.</p>

<p>He really liked U Penn on our visit and we have a young Christian friend there who is thriving. It, like Princeton, is liberal, but there are good churches and support groups on campus.</p>

<p>My son was not interested at all in Harvard. To us, it seemed very, very liberal and less friendly to Christians. However, I know there’s plenty of Christian support on campus, or so I’m to understand.</p>

<p>My son chose to attend MIT. MIT (and Mass.) is liberal, as well, but my son has found great support and lots of friends in the Campus Crusade for Christ group there, and he’s very active in the group and in his dorm. And, he has a lot of non-Christian friends, as well. So far it’s been a positive experience.</p>

<p>I don’t know if that helps but I would encourage you to contact Christian groups at the schools you are applying to. This issue was the most important to me, as a Christian mom, much more important than any programs or school my son would attend, so I was very involved in making sure that my son had a “home” away from home <em>before</em> he set foot on campus. It was also really important to have Christian adults in his life, so that he would have some accountability.</p>

<p>As a Christian, you will be swimming against the cultural current, but may God give you the grace, courage, and strength to love those precious kids around you just as He loved us first who were dead in our transgressions and made alive in Christ.</p>

<p>I wish you well!</p>