<p>Another participant, amstphd, teaches at a college and has seen the unintended consequences of AP and IB: "First, the tests in those courses don't cover the same content as [college] placement tests. English placement tests require grammar; math placement tests require computation. AP and IB classes don't stress this content, and some students were surprised when they didn't test out of the course. Students who do test out may arrive at college expecting to start second semester courses in September. That's not what colleges expect. They offer some sections of spring courses in fall semester, but they don't schedule many and the seats often go to students who were enrolled in the previous spring."</p>
<p>anybody with experience of going into college with AP/IB have opinions on this. They are really pushing AP/IB/college courses and i wonder what your experiences are</p>
<p>My daughter’s college took all of her APs. She started with 200/300 level math and econ courses right away, and didn’t have any problem. We know because of her AP credits, she is able to double major and a minor at her school. Good outcome for D1 over all.</p>
<p>i guess it would be a good idea when looking at colleges to ask whether they accept your credits and whether they have room for students to take higher level courses</p>
<p>I suspect that this is more of an issue at public universities that are attracting a “more accomplished” student body due to the state of the economy while at the same time these schools have had their budgets cut. This was not an issue for my son at his private university a few years ago nor is at an issue for my daughter at the private university she is attending now.</p>
<p>Lots of Jay Mathew’s articles are based on anecdotal data; this article is typical. I’ll counter with my own anecdote. My son’s AP credits would have enabled him to graduate a semester early from his large VA public university. (He chose not to) His AP classes prepared him very well for the rigors of college work. He, too, was not happy with his initial advisor who seemed out of it; my son just switched advisors. </p>
<p>There are many low income students who attend my son’s university. In order to attend, many of them must work part-time. The kids my son knew from freshmen year who have dropped out have done so because the demands of working enough to pay for books/tuition and carrying a full course load proved to be too much. The idea that ap/ib credits have been a factor in causing low-income kids to drop out is laughable.</p>
<p>I do agree with some of his article and that is that the AP and the IB classes don’t always cover the same material that the “equivalent” college class covers. </p>
<p>What I have noticed with the schools is that more AP credits are accepted at universities than IB credits are. My daughter is an IB graduate and will only be able to use her AP tests and her Higher Level IB scores to test out of college credits. Her Standard Level IB classes, with the exception of Macro Economics, will not count. In any case, even if she had been allowed to test out of any science or math classes she had no intention of doing so as she is a science major and wanted to take the college classes so she doesn’t miss anything. She is taking advantage of her AP English and AP History test scores. </p>
<p>I live in Florida and teach at an IB school. Many of our students matriculate to a Florida public school (my daughter did not) and my understanding is that those who receive their IB diplomas typically start off with 30+ credits. In the long run this could save them a lot of money, if these credits count toward their major.</p>
<p>If a student or parent is looking at getting as many college credits as possible while in high school I suggest the AP or duel enrollment route. For those that want students to have to do more than memorize and regurgitate I suggest IB. IB really stresses problem solving and thinking outside the box. It is a difficult program and only the top students do very well in it.</p>
<p>To the OP - My son graduated with an IB diploma (with some AP courses) and scored well enough on the IB tests that he could have skipped his first year at his private college (and graduated in three years). (I am not sure how exactly that worked, but I believe that he would have been exempt from some of the “core” classes.) He chose not to do that. He scored well-enough on his college placement tests to exempt him from Math or foreign language classes, but he wanted to take additional foreign language classes anyway.</p>
<p>I have certainly heard of students at public unis who have been unable to take upper level classes because they are full, but this is not limited to AP or IB students - it is often sophmores and juniors. It has been a topic on several boards here on CC, especially regarding the California publics effectively taking 5 years to graduate because of this problem.</p>
<p>Having said all that, it bothers me that many of the students are upset that they may have to take classes which are not specifically required for their major. If they cannot see the point of taking classes to learn something other than their relatively narrow major interests, they should be in a trade school.</p>
<p>My kids attended 3 different colleges, both public and private. AP credit and policies toward exemptions from course work and enrollment in advanced level course work was handled differently at each, but always clearly stated in written policies, easily found on the college’s web site. </p>
<p>The anecdotes described in the article all seem to be from students who did not check their particular school’s policy in advance of enrollment. </p>
<p>One thing that I did observe along the way – even if a desired college does not offer credit, advanced standing, or the opportunity to enroll in advanced level coursework based on APs – it is worth having that credit in case the student later transfers. My son’s first college, a private LAC, did not award credit for AP courses – but when he later transferred to a public U., the AP credit was particularly useful in helping fill gen ed requirements that he otherwise would have had to make up at college #2, which had a very different set of requirements than college #1.</p>
<p>Some colleges may accept AP credit for specific courses, but may still require students to amass a certain number of credits from the institution itself (i.e. 128) to graduate. If that’s the case, no time or money is saved, although the student gains some curricular flexibility.</p>
<p>APs are useful as a marker for a certain kind of student; but as they proliferate, colleges are beginning to balk at crediting them as generously as in the past. As Fendrock upstream noted, many better private institutions don’t take them at all, and never have.</p>
<p>As one of the people quoted in Mr. Matthews piece, let me try to clarify a little.</p>
<p>My son knew exactly how his high school courses were going to be transferred to his university. He had 12 hours of dual credit classes and only used the 6 hours of credit from APUSH, opting out of the AP Calculus and AP Physics credit. </p>
<p>The problem he had scheduling courses was based on several things
coming in with credit for many of the commonly taken freshman classes
his desire to be in the marching band and the time commitment needed for practices
not being able to take some courses until admitted to his major
some courses only being taught in the fall or only in the spring
not having the pre-reqs needed for some classes
the need to fit in some honors classes </p>
<p>My son reached the minimum of 12 hours needed for full time status - but only because he added a web-based class. After some juggling, he got up to 15 hours, adding a class that is related to - but not required by - his major. However, it helps to meet the honors college requirements, so it works and so far he is really enjoying it. As for next semester, he says he should have no problems with scheduling.</p>
<p>We have no issue with how the school accepted my son’s credits. While he won’t graduate early (that was never the plan), he will have a little easier time down the road and will be able to take some additional courses that interest him but that he wouldn’t have had time to take without all those credits coming in. So, yes, he will graduate with more credits than he needs for the degree - and that is just fine.</p>
<p>While I appreciate Mr. Matthews raising this issue - I really think he has lumped a bunch of problems all together and he has used my comment out of context. I was not complaining about “unneeded college credits” but was just trying to provide a “heads up” for students coming in with a lot of credit from high school - depending on your major (and your interest in continuing EC activities), scheduling that first 1 or 2 semesters may pose some challenges.</p>
<p>On “unneeded college credits”–3 of my 4 kids took a cross-section of APs in all subjects (one child took all math/science APs) and so they had “unneeded” APs. The CS major didn’t need all his humanities/language credits; the Art/Jewish studies major didn’t need all her math/science credits. But would they have taken the general courses instead of the more challenging APs? No way.</p>
<p>Many students start IB with the idea of getting college credits, but in the end many of them go to high caliber schools that accept few or no IB credits. But that’s ok, since by the end they realize that the big benefit was interesting classes and excellent college prep. It also does help I think for college admissions. I’ve heard students who went to competitive colleges come back to speak, and they claim the workload seemed easy after IB classes and intense high school EC (and sometimes a job too). </p>
<p>If they happen to go to our state schools, most will give students with IB diploma automatic sophomore status and 24+ credits. (They may not all apply for student’s major).</p>
<p>My daughter entered college with an IB diploma and 30 AP credits. This didn’t mess up anything. </p>
<p>The AP credits gave her the opportunity to start taking upperclass courses in her major as a freshman and also allowed her to place out of a freshman writing seminar she preferred not to take.</p>
<p>The experience of going through the IB program gave her the time management, writing, and study skills to allow her to transition to college work easily and to do well academically starting with the very first semester.</p>
<p>Where’s the problem?</p>
<p>To colorado_mom: Where we come from, kids in IB take AP tests in their IB subjects. That’s how they get college credit/advanced placement for their IB work (and the school helps by making some courses AP/IB – meaning that they prepare students for both tests). My daughter got exactly zero credits for her IB diploma, despite respectable scores (2 7’s and 4 6’s). But four of her eight AP tests were in subjects where she had taken the IB course, and she got credit for all of them.</p>
<p>I think a lot depends on the major. With the exception of a freshman seminar, my son is not allowed to take any courses in his major until next year (after he is formally admitted).</p>
<p>I “played” with my son’s situation and pretended he was pursuing my younger son’s intended degree program. LOTS more flexibility. Would have had no problem at all. </p>
<p>I agree with the overall experience that the IB program (not so much AP) gives to students. My sons were in and MYP school for several years and that has given them a distinct advantage over their peers. The AP classes have also been good, but just not the same.</p>
<p>My D is an IB diploma holder, also. All her credits were accepted (I don’t know anywhere that HL classes with good scores aren’t accepted, even Bryn Mawr and Harvard accept them). She was able to receive credit for almost all her core requirements. Which allows here to double major and still graduate in four years. The best thing about her IB/AP credits is that it puts her at the front of the line of her class in registering for the next semester’s classes.</p>
<p>Most colleges I researched do NOT accept credit for IB SL (Standard Level - in our hs that means one year course.) But often the student can study for the similar AP test if they are going to a school that accepts AP/IB credit. </p>
<p>Many colleges grant credit for IB HL (Higher Level - in our hs that means two year sequnce), usually for score of 5, 6 or 7. But we learned that some of the very top engineering schools do not accept IB or AP, especially for Math and Science. Even if they do, it may be a good idea to retake the class at college level due to have solid prerequisite for the next course. </p>
<p>If the student has a list of colleges in mind in junior year, it is worth checking the website for their IB/AP credit policy and credit list when planning senior year schedule. </p>
<p>Even in senior year it can be helpful to check the website for colleges that student has applied to. For example, my son thought that he should sign up for the AP calc exam (in addition to his five 5 IB exams,each with several parts). By looking online we determined that his colleges either did not accept AP/IB math credit OR would award the same credit for a good score on his IB HL Math exam.</p>