How are private high schools better preparing kids over public schools?

Parents Forum
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<p>Both my sons went to the same private school. The things I found better there than at our local public HS were:</p>

<ul>
<li>small class sizes (avg. 15). Students can’t hide in classes that small.</li>
<li>involved faculty. Teachers also acted as coaches & advisors and got to know their students well.</li>
<li>consistent advising. Students had to meet with their advisor at least once every 2 weeks.</li>
<li>excellent college advising. There were advisors who did nothing but college advising & they had far fewer students than HS guidance counselors.</li>
<li>emphasis on writing. Sophomores had a mandatory once a week writing workshop. They stayed in writing workshop until they could pass a written test on usage and an essay test graded by 2 teachers. Some students were still doing writing workshop well into their junior year. Both my sons credit this emphasis on writing with the relative ease they’ve had with writing assignments in college.</li>
</ul>

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<p>cptofthehouse hit the nail on the head; “average” kids are not given the same opportunities in our high achieving local public HS…some of the “B” kids graduated without ever writing a research paper; some without ever writing a critical english paper… little is expected of the “college prep” level kids (much to the irony of the title)</p>

<p>terrific public for the AP/honors kids if they can achieve at that level; for everyone else, um, no…</p>

<p>and, yea, what shellfell said about the writing…ditto</p>

23

<p>In my experience, here’s what private schools are doing better

  • As shellfell said, small classes. At my child’s private school, many classes have about 10 students. It makes for better discussions and no hiding. Students need to know the material because they can’t hide.</p>

<p>-homework assigned consistently, and it’s not just busywork or worksheets. It’s actually material that enhances learning. Homework is not done in class. Class time is used for teaching only, not homework. Students get in the habit of knowing that there will be daily homework in every class.</p>

<ul>
<li>much higher expectations and and more challenging work than public schools and no grade inflation. At our local public school which is supposed to be one of the best in the state, a 93 average puts you in the bottom half of the class. At my kid’s private school although there is no official ranking, a 93 average puts you near the top of the class.</li>
</ul>

<p>-emphasis on writing in all aspects of the school. If you’re used to writing research papers and essays on a regular basis, it won’t be a shock in college. Tests will not just be multiple choice and graded with a scantron.</p>

<ul>
<li>College counselors responsible for maybe 20 seniors instead of hundreds mean that they know your child and will be able to guide them in finding a school that is a good fit.</li>
</ul>

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<p>The private schools, the reputable ones, have real college counselors, money, better teachers, and good relationships with the private colleges</p>

25

<p>Well, I went to both private school and public school and what i saw was the following:</p>

<h1>1) Much lower student to teacher ratio</h1>

<h1>2) Much more challenging syllabi</h1>

<h1>3) Pretty incredible competitive atmosphere among students(My graduating class had a 87% average which is the equivalent of a 4.0. I went to private school in Canada)</h1>

<h1>4) Many more options for enrichment in Math, Physics, English etc…</h1>

<h1>5) More money for sports and clubs (Some kids don’t care about this, but for us that are sports-oriented it was great. Public schools don’t have a lot of money to throw around when it comes to EC activities)</h1>

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<p>I want to make it clear that I do not believe for one instant that all private schools are better than all public schools for all kids. It’s even narrower than that. I’ve seen many great kids who would have done better in most decent public schools than a very good private school. It is truly a case by case issue, even within the same family. The rigorous private school that I refer to was truly a great case educationally for my kids, but one of them really would have done a lot better socially at some other choices. You don’t always touch all bases with your choices, and your lucky to get the most important ones.</p>

<p>One problem with not putting your kid through the public school system is that they do not bond as well with the community when you put them in private schools. Though a good solid private will always welcome alums, you do lose that contact with the neighborhood. I miss that here, and it is something that was lost in our choice, not to mention the hundreds of thousands I spent on private schools. If you can work with you children and make a good public school district work, I think that is usually the best choice over all. You can do a lot with those dollars you save in not sending them to private school in terms of tutors and supplementation. It’s when the overall fit is poor that rethinking those options becomes important. </p>

<p>The same goes for colleges. I don’t understand why it is suddenly so important to send your kid to a private, boarding college after years of talking up the greatness of the public school systems. Of our siblings, three of us went to top schools. Only one went to public schools all the way through law schools, and he is by far the most successful. And he advocates publics all the way for his kids, though he could easily afford the best privates in the world for his kids. The oldest is taking LSATS soon and will go to the state law school and will inherit the family law business if she is capable which she seems to be despite a lack of Ivy or any private finish.</p>

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<p>On CC, we talk a lot about fit for colleges. IMO, this is just as important in K12. For many people, though, the only way to have a choice other than the local public school is a private school. Fortunately, in our area, the public schools offer a lot of options via a variety of magnet programs, a few even for K5. S switched from one private school to another during elementary as the first was becoming an increasingly poor fit, and then attended public magnet programs for middle and high school. We were happier with the public schools than either of the private schools, and I’m sure he got a better education than he would have if he had stayed private. This of course, depended on both the particular kid and the particular schools.</p>

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<p>Motherbear, your name says it all. That’s what it takes to get a kid a good education many times. To get it from the public schools is certainly preferable, in my opinion. I wish we could have worked it out, but in our case, it was pretty clear what the best choices were. Though I may have gone private anyways just because of my personal bent. But when I step back and look at things from a distance which I can do now, as all of my kids are pretty much past all of this, I see things from a more detached perspective.</p>

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<p>“I wish we could have worked it out, but in our case, it was pretty clear what the best choices were”</p>

<p>I couldn’t have said this better myself…and I do agree that you make a very conscious decision that sending your child to private school does “take a hit” on community issues…</p>

<p>we wish we could have made the public school work for D2…D1 was fine there…but it wasn’t happening the second time around…</p>

<p>and we actually know ALOT of families who have had to split up their kids based on individual needs/strengths etc…</p>

30

<p>We looked at private high school for one of our kids. He didn’t want to go largely due to the strength of the program at his high school that eventually became his college major.The money that would have been spent on private school tuition (he would have lived at home) was used for many supplemental activities in this area. To be honest, we got a lot of joy out of seeking out and providing these “outside of school” opportunities for both of our kids…and it broadened their horizons in a different way. That’s what worked for us. A combination of public school, and the ability to seek out and take advantage of other things outside of school. For some, that isn’t possible. For others a private school might fulfill this and other criteria and needs.</p>

<p>Thank goodness there are choices some of us can make. It all depends on the kiddo.</p>

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<p>For us the difference between private and public were a little different. Private had the advantage that everyone could participate, even with mediocre ability, in every sport, club, production or team. As a teen trying to fit in, this is very important. We found that academics at the private were taught to the student with the lowest ability in the class. There weren’t numbers outside of math & English to split the classes by ability. Many AP’s are taught every other year and are not sectioned by ability for that same reason. At the private school the pressure to be cool, drink and have sex are much more intense; after all, your peers really know you and the buttons to push. </p>

<p>Our public school has many times more class sections, AP’s and opportunities to section by ability, so for us, the academics are much better. On the other hand, most sports, productions and teams are selected by ability and cuts are expected and students are left out. There are many clubs, though, that are completely open. However, the student has to be proactive to get involved, and the more introverted, may not. With many students, there may not be as much pressure to conform, both good and bad; as you can always hang out with those other friends. As always, it’s a mixed bag.</p>

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<p>I attended a private high school in part because I was not a top student. My sister, who was a top student, did beautifully at our local public high school. I most likely would have fallen between the cracks and am thankful for my private high school education. </p>

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<p>My son did basically the same at our public high school. He ranked in the top 5% of his high school class and I would say the top 15-20% of students were very driven. The large group of kids with similar goals was really good for him, they pushed each other to succeed and supported each other as well. Our town has too small of a population for the privates to offer the same.</p>

<p>If we lived somewhere else, we might have sent him to private school but we very much preferred to send him to public high school and were thankful that we could.</p>

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<p>Public schools do not have this luxury. Private schools have the luxury of vetting a kid before they even walk through the door. Once they get there, if it is not working, private school gets to ask that the child be removed. After all is said and done, child will always have a seat in public school where they have to take him/her (btw, I have about 10 kids on my caseload now, that did not return to Rice. Some, because of money, others for academics/behavior).</p>

<p>I’ll talk to my experience in NYC public high school since this is what I know. Any kid that comes across your threshold and is added to your roster, you are responsible for them. Get a kid on your roster from out of the country, who does not speak a word of English, your kid and if you don’t graduate them with the cohort, your ding.</p>

<p>Kid comes into your school as a safety transfer 18 years old, one credit; s/he is yours and there is no sending them back to their previous school. Kid in your school who has racked up 5 superintendent suspensions during the term, your kid because it is not easy to get an involuntary transfer. Kid fails every class and does not pass regents, your ding. When is the last time this happened in private school?</p>

<p>But the other side of the coin, is not all public schools are created equal. </p>

<p>I remember when we were looking at school, I said that I would not send my kid to public school. I remember when my D got accepted to a prep school, and the price tag was $8100 back then for kindergarten. My sister was outraged and said “I am a grad student at Columbia and I don’t pay that much to go to school.” She said save your money and use it for college (which we did). </p>

<p>I went to one of the big 3 specialized high schools in NYC and my kid went to what could be called “private” public elementary school in Tribeca and one graduated from one of the Top magnets (turned down top specialized high school to stay with her friends). The PTA at her schools raised a few hundred thousand dollars each year to support the enrichment program.</p>

<p>The Title I high school I worked at last year is currently going through a phase out and will close in 2012. However, this year’s class has a Posse scholar and students accepted to and attending Amherst, Wellesley, Vassar, JHU, Bowdoin, RIT, Tufts, Syracuse, Bing and Stony Brook. My next door neighbor, the kid of a professor and a teacher, who attends one of the Big 3 specialized high schools is attending CUNY in the fall - gen admissions.</p>

<p>Next year the DOE will begin evaluating high schools on college readiness. This will include the % of students admitted to community and 4 year schools. Those that chose to attend CUNY will be evaluated on the percentage of students that enter CUNY remedial free. The DOE will track student for 2 years following their graduation from high school.</p>

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<p>pacheight’s daughter makes an excellent point,

</p>

<p>You’ve got to find your people. I think that’s a lot of what “fit” is all about for college. It’s neat too because it transcends race, sex, nationality, religion and so on. It’s chance to find people whose brains work like yours; a common unspoken language.</p>

35

<p>Both my kids went to a progressive, private, Catholic high school. My best friend sent her kids to the local, very highly-rated, public school. Here’s what I saw at the private school.</p>

<p>Less busy work.
Less “weeder work,” i.e. overload designed to separate AP track students from the rest
Smaller classes
More innovative assignments
WAY better college counseling</p>

<p>In terms of outcome, I’m not going to judge what makes a good outcome. But those were the observable reasons I spent the money. The “more rich kids” bit was not so great, as drugs and distress can hit everyone.</p>

36

<p>For me, it was about the academic opportunities. My town has a good but not incredible public high school, where the top few students are accepted to Ivies and other top schools (whether or not they go is another question - even with financial aid, parents seem to seldom be willing to send their kids to such schools). There are 3 separate “tracks” for students of different levels and a reasonable number of AP classes. However, there was already a “brain-drain” effect, where most of the top students in the district went to local private Catholic schools. The math options would have been limiting, too - the highest level math course offered was AB Calculus, and they had cut the program allowing students to take courses for credit at a local college. This would have been insufficient to challenge me, as I ended up taking BC Calculus as a sophomore at my private high school and needed 2 more years of math beyond that. The atmosphere at that particular public school wasn’t right, and luck had it that I was able to go to an exceptional private school at a feasible cost, and I haven’t looked back. Interestingly, in classes at the public school, I wouldn’t have been able to pursue computer science, Latin, or Greek - I’m currently a Classics, Math, and Computer Science major, so I credit my high school greatly with starting me down that path. In no particular order, the student body, the course offerings, and the (generally) exceptional faculty are the three biggest differences I found between this particular private school and that particular public school. YMMV.</p>

37

<p>Our public schools are considered excellent but I have had children at top public, top private and boarding school. </p>

<p>What I think private schools do better:

  1. small classes
  2. writing, writing, writing
  3. feedback-- work gets corrected in detail and students have to work through corrections
  4. more work in each class (if that’s bettter-- and, honestly, it depends on the class and the grade) and no grade inflation HOWEVER there are soooooo many parents doing their child’s work, especially in elementary school, that I think, in some schools, it’s the parents who are being graded and the schools should only use grades for work done in front of the teacher</p>

<p>What I think the public school does better:

  1. diversity-- my kids are URM and private schools are less diverse and less accepting than ps
  2. course selection-- there are more languages/ higher math courses/ STEM and technology classes, more APs/IBs
  3. access-- Based on what some wrote, this must be different in different areas but, in our public school, it is pretty easy to get into top classes. The private schools are more restrictive on how many APs can be taken and if there are entrance requirements (teacher rec, etc).
  4. extracurricular-- better opportunity for most sports and greater variety of coursework and opportunity for music</p>

<p>I would honestly say I have to disagree that private schools have the better teachers. As a matter of fact, I would say that hands-down, public schools have the better teachers. PS teachers are able to teach a child regardless of his level or learning style. They have also been vetted through the licensing process. Private school teachers vary greatly in ability. Some of the best teachers I have seen are experienced private school teachers who have created their own curriculum and spend years teaching it. Unfortunately, I’ve also met private school teachers who are right out of school, without a lick of teaching courses or who were chosen to teach a foreign language because of their country of origin, not knowlege of teaching. </p>

<p>What I think both do wrong:

  1. overlook cheating-- I found that too much work in private schools is being done by parents. I think this is because of the intense workload, the stress of getting high marks and the threat of academic action. I think in public schools, the students are much more likely to cheat off of each other or the internet but there is rampant cheating among top students.</p>

<p>What boarding schools do better:

  1. DISCIPLINE – Kids learn to wake up, do their work, follow the rules. </p>

<p>It is probably unfair to generalize. I agree with much that cpt wrote but I think that a family’s finances also has to play a role. One of my kids had a huge scholarship to a top private school-- but it was very difficult to be the minority scholarship kid. Many administrators, teachers and students treated my kid differently. I doubt any of them meant to do it, however, some teachers assumed that being a certain race meant you were familiar with certain things and the administators invariably had different rules for children of generous, wealthy parents and children of scholarship kids. So as thankful as I was that the school was generous with my kid, my kid eventually left (not asked to leave but left-- which was pretty rare) because it was very hard to be in that environment.</p>

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<p>Again depends on the private school. The teachers at my kids’ private are hands down better than the ones in the public ones. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, I find that true for the schools I’ve used. Which was a reason for using them. Not saying there isn’t that exception. And again, not all public school vs privates will work that way.</p>

<p>But what Sybbie says is absolutely correct. The private schools have the right and do exercise it vigorously to get rid of any kid they don’t want to have to deal with. They don’t even have to have a reason. The teachers and staff at the publics are then forced to deal with these miscreants along with those they already have. </p>

<p>But the thing with the private schools, is that YOU and your kid do not have to deal with those problems as much either. The screening net that the school uses does offer your kid that protection. Instead of having to deal with such issues, the school just gets rid of those problems so there is more time and resources to deal with your kid. Now if your kid is one of the problems, and, yes, I’ve had that too, you aren’t going to get the support of that private school. That’s not their thing. They are a boutique, not a department store.</p>

<p>I know a family who had years of association with a private school. Their son had some LD and spectrum issues but could with accommodations do well. Nope, said the private school. They were not interested. They were right in that that was not what they had their experience and resources to deal with, and they were not about to start in that direction. Into the public school, he had to go where he joined many kids with similar issues. And that school district had to deal with other issues as well that this private school would not touch. </p>

<p>At sons’ school, as in any school, there was cheating, but there was a lot of handwritten work that needed to be done, and things were checked in stages with very involved teachers so to cheat was not as easy. Small classes and vigorous proctoring also discouraged cheating. The department chair made up fresh tests each year and eschewed the canned ones in the teacher’s editions. I found public school teachers much lazier that way. Again my experience. My kids had to do a lot of their work on low tech basis , and had to utilize the library and bring source documents for research projects in a way that even if the work was being done by parents or others, the kid HAD to do a good part of it. Things were set up so it was difficult to have someone else to do the work. You could hire a tutor to work alongside the kid and do so yourself, but there was a lot the kid had to do on his own at school to show mastery of the work. The AP and SAT2 test scores which are incredibly high at that school is a testament to that . And cheating had some very hard core consequences at the privates. At the public school here, some blatant cheating resulted in being kicked out of Honor Society and not getting honors designation at graduation. At the private they would have been kicked out of school if this happened after freshman year, and knowing some kids who did so get kicked out, it didn’t matter who your parents are.</p>

39

<p>A good school must have at least these four elements - adequte funding, experienced teachers, a critical mass of good students, and supporting parents/community. </p>

<p>Both my kids only attended public schools and they are doing fine at the best colleges. The HS they attended, has all the 4 elements. ONce they got into AP classes, they are within a group of students in an environment, IMHO, not unlike any expesnive private school.</p>

40

<p>Better packaging.</p>