How are your hs kids doing in college?

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
1

<p>Most of the threads seem to be about preparing for and getting into college. I'd like to hear from parents whose kids are already in college. How did they do? What challenges did they face?</p>

<p>We all know that homeschooled kids have consistently scored high on tests, won national contests, etc. How did this translate into college success?</p>

<p>We all know about hs kids like the Colfaxes, who went to Ivy Leagues and astonished everyone. Any other stories like that?</p>

<p>I'd particularly like to hear from unschoolers, or from anyone who, while not totally an unschooler, didn't use an extremely structured (translate: try to duplicate school) approach - anyone who followed the principle of child-led learning as defined by John Holt. Did your child have any difficulty transitioning to an environment of academic rigor?</p>

<p>Based on the stories I've read, it seems like if the kid is totally unschooled, then they are so passionate about learning that they are totally self-motivated when they get to college, and do great. In contrast, if they were homeschooled with a lot of structure, that's basically the same as conventional school, so they're used to it and do great.</p>

<p>But what about the kids who were homeschooled with the middle-of-the-road approach? Structure on some subjects, just enough to sour the taste of joyful unrestrained blissful learning, and freedom on others, thus resulting in a complex blended attitude towards learning but without the academic rigor (numerous hours spent buried in homework).</p>

2

<p>Not quite sure where my boys would rate on the schooled-unschooled approach--probably more toward the schooled, although with a lot of flexibility. However, they did take some courses of their own choosing at the local high school and community college during their high school years, so I guess they were used to the structured approach from that, if nothing else.</p>

<p>My older son graduated from Stanford with a B.A. in Japanese and is currently working in a company in a small town in Japan, doing website design, translating, and various odd jobs such as steaming chestnuts and working in sales. He adjusted to college with no major difficulty and really enjoyed his time there, especially his junior year in Kyoto, Japan. He was always a big reader, so this made his classes easier for him.</p>

<p>My younger son is a music performance major at Indiana University, a junior this year. He is a very people-oriented kid, very good at knowing what is expected and how to do what needs to be done to achieve his goals. He also adjusted easily, although his studies are entirely different from his brothers, being so music-oriented. When it comes to music, he is totally self-motivated, quite willing to practice for hours and do whatever it takes to learn the material. Learning is definitely more important to him that grades in this area.</p>

<p>When is comes to non-music requirements, however, he has learned to judge how much he needs to do to gain the grade he wants--usually an A, but not always--and he will do just that much and no more. (sigh) I really tried to bring them up loving to learn in all areas, but it just didn't always work out that way. However, this son does value intelligence and learning, just in his own terms.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your response, and I'm glad to hear that your sons have both done so well!</p>

<p>My son took community college classes and is now in his 1st semester at UT. He has always learned quite easily, and is able to memorize massive amounts of information effortlessly, when it's something he's interested in. Right now he's going thru an adjustment to having to actually work hard at something, but I guess that's to be expected, to some degree. He has also just decided to switch majors, so that too is disorienting. I think once he is sure about his major, his natural joy of learning will reappear. Part of what he's going thru, I suspect, is the uncertainty. He had been heading down a certain path (computer science) all these years and now, suddenly, he's realizing that's not what he wants to do after all. He's realizing that he'd rather pursue something that deals with people, rather than just machines. He's considering political science. </p>

<p>Even though he's considered a sophomore due to the 41 hours from cc, age-wise he's supposed to be a freshman, so he's having to make a definite decision a bit earlier on account of it.</p>

4

<p>My older son had thought, from about age 7, that he would become an aerospace engineer. That was his aim when he applied to colleges. Japanese was a subject he loved, but didn't expect to turn into a career. It wasn't until his senior year--when he was rejected by the fifth year engineering program due to comparatively low grades in engineering classes (meaning B- average, compared to 3.6 in other classes)--that he decided that Japanese would be his career. It was quite an adjustment mentally for him, but I think he is much happier doing what he is doing than he would have been studying engineering. Math was never his strongest subject. So, yes, changing majors can be an adjustment, but it's usually for the best in the long run.</p>

<p>As for the adjustment to having to actually work hard at something, my sons have both gone through that, too--although community college classes helped a lot with that, as each had quite a challenging class then.</p>

<p>Hope this year is a good one for your son!</p>

5

<p>Thanks! I'll share your son's story with him. He should find that encouraging and be glad he's discovering NOW that he wants to change majors, and not 3 years from now.</p>

6

<p>S completed college in '06, and D started in September,
I guess most people would consider them to be unschooled. They never took any classes or used tutors, and they decided what they would do each day. On the other hand, they wanted to go to college and self-studied with that in mind as well.
Their reactions to college have been similar. Neither had time to finish their first test! My son had been the only student in that class to get an "A" on the first assigned paper, so the prof. approached him about it. He explained that he hadn't taken a test in that form (typical essay-type test) before. She threw it out. After that, he was pretty well up to speed (pun) on that stuff. My daughter also approached her prof. afterwards. She didn't go so far as to throw out the grade, but made it clear that she needn't worry about it. Her other sit-down tests have been fine.
They both had the advantage of being well-read as unschoolers pretty well beyond what a kid could realistically do if he or she had to go to school. My daughter is taking a double class in Humanities (two courses in the fall, two in the spring) that is regarded as an intellectual boot-camp and one of the hardest in her school. The mid-term was last week, and someone in her study group pointed out that there were 1000 pages of reading assigned that week as well- mostly Virgil and Ovid. She is one of the few to have read all the assigned readings, absorbs them quickly, and has a defensible opinion almost immediately.<br>
One course is a writing seminar taught by an anthropologist on culture and the law. Because the point of the class is to develop as writers, the rest of the class zones out when the prof. gets enthusiastic about the particulars of a culture or legal case. She thinks that is the best part of the course, and wants to take some anthropology courses.
They are annoyed by the "schooly" part of college- basically generating tasks because a grade must be assigned, but regard it as a small cost to be in a stimulating environment. Oxford appeals to them. Sort of "go read this pile of books, and then come back and we'll talk about them".
They both feel advantaged by their educational upbringing and want their kids to have the same experience.</p>

7

<p>What do you mean by the prof 'threw it out?' Was he allowed to retake the test, or what? And how could your d not 'worry about it?' Was she given a chance to make it up? </p>

<p>My son ran into that. He knew the material, but ran out of time. He did better with the 2nd test, so he's getting faster... the prof approached him, too. She said his homework assignments were among the best in the class, so she'd expected him to do better on the tests.</p>

8

<p>I have two that have graduated. My first went to Hillsdale College, majoring in violin performance and music theory, in the Honors Program. She's now working for Shar Music in Ann Arbor (anyone need violin strings???), playing for several symphonies and working on graduate school applications. She graduated magna cum laude. </p>

<p>My second is a youngster at the Naval Academy, majoring in history and minoring in Japanese. She just ran her first marathon! She's thriving at USNA, though still doesn't like calculus... She had an awesome summer on a guided missile destroyer, based out of Japan, with a week in Russia. She had appointments to USAFA, USNA, USCGA and a full-ride NROTC scholarship. She picked Navy for the many options after comissioning.</p>

<p>Both girls had a middle-of-the-road approach--some of our things looked very schoolish, especially #2. In the deathless words of Mary Pride: "the military doesn't do alternative". But the oldest one had time to have a string of violin students, kayak, work several jobs, swim on the high school swim team and show dressage horses. The second one got her private pilot's license, played lots of weddings with her sister, kayaked, became a Master Gardener, did two sports, traveled overseas twice, and built a flock of wool sheep. </p>

<p>Both girls started with the college orchestra at 10--the first was Concert Master and the other, Principal Cellist in high school. They started regular college classes at 15. </p>

<p>So Susan, how does your ds like IU? It's one of the places my oldest is looking at for grad school. What is his instrument?</p>

9

<p>"But what about the kids who were homeschooled with the middle-of-the-road approach? Structure on some subjects, just enough to sour the taste of joyful unrestrained blissful learning, and freedom on others, thus resulting in a complex blended attitude towards learning but without the academic rigor (numerous hours spent buried in homework)."</p>

<p>I would not agree with your assessment that "structure sours the taste of joyful unrestrained blissful learning." Neither do I think that academic rigor is the same as having loads of homework.</p>

<p>My sons started out working on subjects at home and at the start of highschool and then added in cc classes by junior year. Since the courses were of their choosing, their eagerness and enjoyment to learn were hardly diminished when they entered college.</p>

<p>When my older son was applying to approached college application, his interest were pretty broad and we aimed for a school with a broad spectrum of good departments. He entered his freshman year with 5 areas of interests: English, math, psychology, philosophy, and music (composition) and discovered linguistics within the first week. Now he is a junior and aiming for a triple major: linguistics, math and philosophy (ethics), although he has only formally declared linguistics. He enjoys what he is studying and is thinking of graduate school.</p>

<p>My younger son is a freshman in an engineering program. He looked at what the school was listing for the fall semester and found at least 6 courses to like. Lucky for him, the school restrict first semester freshman to a max of 19 credits. When he gets at least a 3.2 gpa this semester, he will be able to go for as many as he can fit into his schedule. He really likes his roommate and hallmates and spends much time with them to explore activities. They started out with a standing long jump competition in the hallway during study breaks. Now they are trying out racquetball. On top of that he is working out at the gym (new to him) and fencing twice a week. He is also continuing his two highschool ECs - African drumming and taichi, neither of which is offered at a school club. So he has offered to drum for an African dance class and trying to get a taichi club up and running. He is like a kid in a candy store - he wants to take everything in. I hope things will settle down a bit for him. Study load will be much heavier next semester but he is looking forward (really!) to some 'fun' classes.</p>

<p>Based on what I hear from my sons and what I observed when I visited over parent's weekend, my sons still love to learn, very much so. It does help that the university (they attend the same school but don't see each other much) requires only one core course requirement and the distribution requirements are very loosely structured. However, here are departmental requirements when a major is declared.</p>

<p>IMO, it is not so much structure but choice that is important in maintaining the joy of learning is maintained.</p>

10

<p>lealdragon...
I went to the University of Florida back in the day and have often imagined that the University of Texas is the most similar school in the universe. These are large state institutions with a civil service mentality.
My son attended and my daughter attends a LAC-like university. The prof that "threw out the grade" just x-ed it out and didn't pay any attention to it. She had that authority, and it made complete sense to her. My daughter's prof teaches a class of 10 and apparently feels she has plenty of opportunities to evaluate students' progress.
These incidents were not particularly important, but I thought they were interesting anecdotes about "unschoolers" first brush with formal college tests.
I worry about posting here too much and figure most have heard about these kids before. My son graduated from Dartmouth, and my daughter is a first year at Princeton.
I'd say don't worry!</p>

11

<p>heartcross,
My son loves the music school at IU, isn't that thrilled with the rest of the college--mainly just due to its size. He is a trumpet performance major. He loves his trumpet teacher, the other music students, and the vast opportunities to perform that he has found at IU. That is one reason he chose IU over smaller schools. This year he has made it a goal to perform somewhere every week, and has succeeded so far. It has ranged from playing in church--his own or others that pay for performers--to playing in ad hoc groups for others' recitals to playing pit orchestra for operas. Next week he even has a small on-stage part in an opera, where he is supposedly part of a village band that plays briefly on stage. (He even gets a costume.) He is nowhere near the top of the heap, but still finds lots of chances to make music and to listen to great music. (Tomorrow he will make his third drive up to Chicago this semester to hear the Chicago Symphony perform, but there are also a lot of great performers that come to IU to play.) So he has no regrets about choosing IU for college.</p>

<p>Is your son a performance major also?</p>

12

<p>Thanks, everyone, for sharing your stories.</p>

<p>I think what's going on with my son is mostly test anxiety. He's doing better, but it was quite a change for him, being suddenly thrust into the largest school in the nation. He had some really wonderful profs who challenged him (one who used to teach at Berkeley and still taught the same way at the cc), and small classes, at the cc, so this is quite a change.</p>

<p>Also, he didn't have the benefit of the many freshman activities & support, since he got classified as a sophomore due to his 41 cc credits. And, to top that off, he had a roommate with weapons and drugs (off-campus) so he had to move again 1 day before classes started...and some other things, but basically the semester got off to a shaky start.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I would not agree with your assessment that "structure sours the taste of joyful unrestrained blissful learning." Neither do I think that academic rigor is the same as having loads of homework.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree. Sorry if I didn't word that quite right. If anything, I was intentionally conjuring up the stereotype of blissfully free unschooled kids who naturally and organically teach themselves algebra...did not happen in my son's case! He did, however teach himself many things...enough to be the youngest Geek Squad agent, be the IT tech and webmaster of his homeschool co-op at at age 14, debate history & politics with his govt. prof and have the prof be really impressed, etc...all self-taught. But, I most definitely do believe that some things must be taught with some structure. If anything, I am now wondering if I should have been stricter on some things, if maybe we didn't have enough structure.</p>

<p>He didn't really get t0o much choice in his cc classes, since our goal at the time was to get some of the basics out of the way. So he took the obligatory history, govt, etc. Now, he is really enjoying Philosophy and is looking forward to taking some interesting classes in the spring.</p>

<p>I guess now that the nest is empty I'm going thru the 'maybe I should have done this' phase. And, after reading about so many hs kids who just flourished immediately upon getting into college, and being so totally self-motivated, with hardly any struggle, I was just wondering how true that is. I know my son will succeed - He's definitely getting better at taking tests - but he's had to make some adjustments and learn to work harder than he's ever worked before. He's extremely intelligent and has always understood most subjects with little effort, but he's in the big league now. It's definitely character building and a GOOD thing, but I was just wondering if most other hs kids have struggles too or do they just glide right in and soar.</p>

13

<p>lealdragon...
It sounds like the challenges he's had could happen to any student.
First year at a residential college presents a lot new to anyone. My daughter has had problems falling to sleep at night, off and on, due to what seems to me to be overstimulation, certainly compared to the life she lived before. There is a transition from being in control of your own education and your life to a new environment where you need to figure out a world that seems beyond one's control.
It isn't, of course. They are still the smart kids they always were and are getting on top of this one.
One thing I neglected to mention is that my daughter seems to be perceived as different in a positive way to others, partially due to being home schooled. Much has to do with bring interested in learning for learning's sake, which isn't typical of those who clawed their way to the top of the college admissions game. Love of learning is buried underneath for many of her peers- still there, but surviving under habits of doing what it takes to get to the top in the school world. She's refreshing and well liked.</p>

14

<p>lealdragon,</p>

<p>I think you will find that all students, homeschool or not, have a lot of adjustments to make that first year or two in college. The adjustments are different for different students even when they are from the same family and going to the same school. Whether the adjustments are major struggles will depend on the student.</p>

<p>As a parent, I do worry but I have to learn to trust that they do remember their education from home. I have shown them the ropes and they have to practise using them all on their own.</p>

<p>My older one struggled with essay writing and was very reluctant to use my suggestions. Last year, as a sophomore, he finally admitted that what I suggested worked and he was getting the hang of it and improving as he got more essay assignments. Now, I am waiting for my younger one to remember to use more care when he comes across easy problem sets or test questions. (I am learning to refrain from saying "I told you so.")</p>

<p>I also worry about their social skills since neither dated in high school. They enjoyed their friends but were never tempted to date even as friends started years earlier. Now that my younger one is in a co-ed hall, I wondered if he would even know what to do.</p>

<p>A parent's worry never ends. A homeschooling parent's worry is an even larger load. I am sure your son will be fine in another month and next semester will be even easier.</p>

15

<p>Thanks for all your reassurances!</p>

16

<p>I was homeschooled from 2nd grade to 8th grade, and went to public high school while still taking some subjects through homeschool (history, health, math until Calculus).</p>

<p>Now I'm a Senior at Mcgill University in Montreal (how the time flies!) majoring in Operations Management and Statistics. There are pluses and minuses to homeschooling but ultimately I'm very grateful for having had the opportunity to be homeschooled. I think it helped a lot for developing an independent work ethic and the ability to learn a subject from a book.</p>

<p>I had to go through the adjustment both in high school and in college. For math, the area where I was homeschooled almost all my life, I came to college with strong computational skills and a strong classical foundation, but I lacked exposure to the traditional proof methods and my trig was really shaky. But I think the resourcefulness I learned through homeschooling about how to "teach myself" a concept I was unfamiliar with really helped whenever a gap in my knowledge opened up. </p>

<p>Anyway, that's my experience. I'm happy for the background I had :)</p>

17

<p>Susan--mine is performance and theory. She just emailed me--she was asked to judge a music competition--she's excited! I know she'll find the big university a change from her small LAC, but she's been living in Ypsilanti and communting to Ann Arbor--Bloomington would look pretty nice after that! She'd still like to come home to the mountains...</p>

18

<p>heartcross, Now I feel stupid... Of course, you said it was your daughter, and she was majoring in theory and performance in your previous post. Sorry for the brain lapse!</p>

<p>That is exciting about judging a competition. How fun for her! Yes, the big university will be a change, but there are SO many opportunities in music there. My son was just telling me, as he walked home from the dress rehearsal for the opera he has a tiny part in, how exciting it is to hear the wonderful singers and see the magnificent sets for the opera. The only concern may be that she would have more professional playing opportunities in a large city like New York or Chicago or Boston. That is one thing my son is considering as he starts thinking about places for grad school.</p>

<p>And sadly, there are no mountains in Indiana. My son does miss mountains, too. Snowboarding is just not the same in the hills and fake snow of southern Indiana--or whereever it is he goes to snowboard there!</p>

19

<p>My older son graduated last year from a selective LAC with highest honors. He always loved academics and is now applying to PhD programs in intellectual history. Younger son is in first year of music school, loves performing and sometimes gets excited about academics. Neither had trouble adjusting after homeschooling through upper elementary and high school. Both took community college classes in addition to lots of classes within our local homeschool community.</p>

20

<p>S is a soph. at a Great Books LAC. He was mostly unschooled, except for math. He did go 1/2 day to public HS senior year to take a few APs and science labs. He was a NMF.
He likes his school, but his grades aren't so great--he obviously wastes time gaming and hanging out with GF. . . Pretty normal, I guess. College was quite an adjustment because he chose a school for social/religious fit rather than academic fit. At first S was overwhelmed by the sheer volume of reading. He was a math/science kid, pretty weak in literature, and not used to keeping up with six subjects at a time. Class participation is everything at his school, and S stuggles to compete with the former debate team captains and future lawyers. . . Other than that, he's getting by. He's a computer geek and still planning a career in IT.</p>