<p>^^None of this is relevant. I knew my kid was quite good and the outcomes proved it. However, there are limitations to outcomes in the holistic process and that limitation was being in the top 100 of the Asian gender for the year. </p>
<p>I now know the kid was either not in the top 100 or should have applied early to stand a better shot at HYP. It is water under the bridge but people need to understand where the limitations are rather than complain about it.</p>
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<p>Practically speaking, it would not be an unreasonable assumption that the overwhelming majority of Jewish people at Harvard would, by US census conventions, be classified as white.</p>
<p>Accdg to Collegeboard, which I think has the proper numbers (for last year?), Harvard reported 45% White, 18% Asian, 9% Hispanic, 7% Black, 5% mixed, 6% unknown, and 10% international. I <em>think</em> the Crimson article I read that said 3/4 Whites are Jewish, used numbers from Hillel to come to that conclusion. I will continue looking for that article, but I am having trouble formulating specific enough search terms.</p>
<p>And yes, romani, it would assume that all Jewish students were White, which may or may not be true, but is probably a reasonable guess. Again, these are <em>rough</em> data, since there is no formal count for religion.</p>
<p>If 3/4 of the 45% white are Jewish that would leave less than 12% of Harvard WASP. Recruited athletes are about 15% of the class(of which I think its safe to assume well over half are wasps) —conclusion-wasps don’t waste your money applying to Harvard. I think what’s happened is every time they want to increase the representation of an aggrieved minority it comes out of the wasp population until there’s nothing left.</p>
<p>I attended Yom Kippur services one year with my roommate - I think all three of us went, but she was the only one who was actually Jewish. Did Hillel count us all? </p>
<p>The funniest story about misidentification is my very blonde sister-in-law whose got several several invitations to join African-American organizations the first week freshman year.</p>
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Based on my experiences 20 years ago at Harvard, 3/4 seems far too high an estimate. I would estimate 1/4 to 1/3. A 1999 NYT article is consistent with this.</p>
<p>[Princeton</a> Puzzle: Where Have Jewish Students Gone?](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/02/nyregion/princeton-puzzle-where-have-jewish-students-gone.html]Princeton”>http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/02/nyregion/princeton-puzzle-where-have-jewish-students-gone.html)
Why do other Ivy League campuses – Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Penn – manage to keep Jewish populations of at least a quarter and in some cases more than a third? (The figures, drawn from surveys by the University of California at Los Angeles that ask first-year college students their religious preferences, are considered rough estimates.)</p>
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<p>The Jewish kids I knew at Harvard were really smart. I did not think their numbers resulted from a preference.</p>
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<p>Isn’t Jewish heritage maintained through the woman’s side? And aren’t the last names adopted by the children (if not the mother) from the father’s side?</p>
<p>May be I am missing the point but I was reading the story as showing that each pool gets admitted on their own merits and so more jewish people are being admitted as whites since religion is not part of the consideration. Ivies have no problem admitting more people of a particular religion as long as the race fits and they are the best applicants within that race?</p>
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<p>Even fewer WASPs if you take off the Catholics …</p>
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<p>One does not have to be Jewish to join Hillel. I’m not Jewish, but was a card-carrying member while I was in college. I had a Jewish girlfriend and happened to be the editor of the campus newspaper, which had the office right next door to theirs.</p>
<p>I think the only way to avoid the perception of a racial based quota is not to have race question in apps and conceal the names of the applicants. Assign a number to each application.</p>
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<p>You don’t think this can be readily determined through the essays and the organizations and activities the student was involved in?</p>
<p>^ Hate to think they’re going to block names on LoRs and transcripts. And score reports. Who should this resp be entrusted to? Collegeboard? Comonn App? Yeah-huh.</p>
<p>H’s website has the 2016 numbers. The CDS breaks out a bit more detail.</p>
<p>If you look at majors, STEM = over 54%. Roughly 900 of 1660. 91.5% of freshmen had hs gpa’s 3.75+. I don’t know how the applicant pool broke out. But for an admit total of somewhere between 2000-2200, that suggests especially huge competition among STEMs.</p>
<p>It makes e uneasy when talk turns to race because, so often, underlying assumptions come out- that Asian American kids are smarter and more hard working and “deserve” to be repped in higher numbers; that Hispanic/Black kids are “quota” admits; that whites are wealthy- and now, that a huge chunk of the class is Jewish. </p>
<p>We also don’t know how many Asians were admitted and chose to go elsewhere. I hate to think another assumption is that Asians don’t want anything but H.</p>
<p>Collegeboard is passing on pictures along with SAT scores. So the name recognition is passe for next year.</p>
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<p>No, Beliavsky, that NYT article is consistent with a 3/4 ratio for <em>Whites.</em> The article says 25-30% of the student body is Jewish, and if 45% are White, then 3/4 Whites are Jewish, correct?</p>
<p>The reason why the Crimson article sticks in my mind, is that on that day, my D called me and said that as she was sitting in the dining hall with 3 of her girl friends, one of them said “Did you know that 3/4 Whites at H are Jewish?” (having just read the article). The four of them looked at each other, and burst out laughing. Because it was true for the 4 of them.</p>
<p>Kind of ironic since most of these schools were started by WASP churches.</p>
<p>[Harvard</a>, Yale, Princeton, Oxford?Once Christian? - Answers in Genesis](<a href=“http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/harvard-yale-princeton-oxford-once-christian]Harvard”>Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford—Once Christian? | Answers in Genesis)</p>
<p>I don’t know about Harvard, but I’d be very surprised if 3/4 of the white students at Yale are Jewish. Half, maybe. I think those Hillel numbers are suspect. (By the way, I knew a Jewish kid named Kennedy–he’d be perfect for Harvard!)</p>
<p>As for the idea of a “ceiling” for Asian students–I think it’s possible that, consciously or unconsciously, some schools might have a concept of what would constitute “too many Asians.” Clearly, 4 times the percentage in the population isn’t too many, though. I still think, though, that it may not be a matter of competing for Asian slots, but rather competing for STEM slots, further complicated by geographical and other demographic factors. That is, I’m not convinced that an Asian kid from Oklahoma who wants to major in classics, plays the accordian, and is on the soccer team, is competing with other Asians for a slot.</p>
<p>I think STEM is definitely a road block at Yale where there are only 100 engineering seats at the moment. I can see 3000 Asians applying for Yale engineering and getting turned down.</p>
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What’s more, you can’t assume that those 3000 Asians will all be better engineering prospects than all the non-Asian applicants, either. So there’s sort of a double whammy if you’re competing for fewer slots. There are some really good non-Asian violinists and tennis players as well.</p>
<p>Although we’re (rightly) denigrating conclusions based on surnames, I’m going to do it anyway. Here’s the roster of the Harvard undergraduate orchestra:
<a href=“http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~hro/roster[/url]”>http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~hro/roster</a>
What do you notice about these names?</p>
<p>I get that. You cant have engineering school with just Asians. That would be bad for the school. :p</p>