How corrupt are Ivy League admissions?

<p>There are international kids putting a lot of effort into the MIT program. The material helps them prepare for Math and science for their own national entrance exams since those are usually extremely hard and people spend a fortune in coaching classes.</p>

<p>Interesting comment from a deferred kid on Yale thread about engineering. People are catching on.</p>

<p>Other
Applied for Financial Aid?: Yes
Intended Major: BME, which may have screwed me over
State (if domestic applicant): VA
School Type: Public
Ethnicity: Asian (may have also screwed me over)
Gender: Female
Income Bracket: Not sure</p>

<p>I thought the myth busting comment was aimed at more than immigrants.</p>

<p>In any case, I don’t think we shake our cultural influences just by being American today. It takes time. Our identities and attitudes are shaped by complex influences from our family backgrounds, going way back.</p>

<p>"Even so, there was a white male reporting 2400 and 4.0 from Alaska who was deferred, while Asian kids with substantially lower scores were accepted (as well as other white kids and URMs). "</p>

<p>Maybe this kid should start a thread over how his rightful spot was unfairly stolen by an Asian kid.</p>

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<p>Or a jewish kid, or a kid from massachussets, or an URM, or an athlete, or a legacy, or a famous person’s kid, or a famous person, or a piccolo player from Nashville, or …</p>

<p>How many spots are there at this school? :p</p>

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<p>I started a thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414038-will-online-courses-replace-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414038-will-online-courses-replace-college.html&lt;/a&gt; on this and have the same thought as texaspg.</p>

<p>As you look through the blogs, they distinguish between becoming more educated and acquiring the degree for a sum total that meets some breadth and depth. I’m afraid it’s too easy to look at online ed in a “flat” way, too.</p>

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<p>Poetgrl, what a skillful way to deflect another round. :)</p>

<p>[Fears</a> of an Asian Quota in the Ivy League
New York Times – Room for Debate
December 19, 2012](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league]Fears”>Fears of an Asian Quota in the Ivy League - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com)
has the posts</p>

<p>Statistics Indicate an Ivy League Asian Quota
RON UNZ, THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE</p>

<p>Scores Aren’t the Only Qualification
ROD M. BUGARIN JR., FORMER ADMISSIONS OFFICER</p>

<p>Harvard Shuns Quotas and Narrow Criteria
JEFF NEAL, HARVARD UNIVERSITY</p>

<p>Quotas Are Imaginary; Need for Diversity Is Real
KHIN MAI AUNG, ASIAN AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND</p>

<p>Discrimination Is Obvious
S.B. WOO, 80-20 NATIONAL ASIAN AMERICAN EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION</p>

<p>When Wealth Trumps Merit
JOHN C. BRITTAIN, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SCHOOL OF LAW AND RICHARD D. KAHLENBERG, CENTURY FOUNDATION</p>

<p>Also appearing today:</p>

<p>[Asians:</a> Too Smart for Their Own Good?
By CAROLYN CHEN
New York Times
December 19, 2012](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opinion/asians-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html]Asians:”>Opinion | Asians: Too Smart for Their Own Good? - The New York Times)</p>

<p>"At Northwestern, Asian-American students tell me that they feel ashamed of their identity — that they feel viewed as a faceless bunch of geeks and virtuosos. When they succeed, their peers chalk it up to “being Asian.” They are too smart and hard-working for their own good. "</p>

<p>Uh oh. Are they feeling the pressure to underachieve?</p>

<p>Here’s a few quotes, and my responses, from the “Discrimination is Obvious” piece:</p>

<p>

As we’ve discussed ad infinitum, these numbers suggest a possibility of discrimination, but they aren’t proof, and they don’t make it obvious.</p>

<p>

But the proportion of Asians at the Ivies is about four times the proportion of Asians in the population. So…?</p>

<p>

Well, not exactly. For most of the Presidential Scholars, eligibilty to be considered is based on SAT scores (CR+M), with a certain number from each state identified as candidates. In many states, to even be eligible requires perfect CR + M. (A smaller number of Scholars in the Arts are also chosen without this requirement.) So while other factors are considered in choosing the final Scholars, scores are essential in getting you in the door for this.</p>

<p>So, it’s not so obvious.</p>

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<p>My son was on that qualifying list a couple years ago, but never filled out the subsequent paperwork. With 137 candidates in Illinois and only two winners, it seemed to be a poor time investment for a tiny chance to go to Washington for free. Instead he applied for and won a $2500 math scholarship.</p>

<p>HuffPo weights in. If this was a stock clearly all of the suckers are in and its time to sell
[Daniel</a> Luzer: Elite College Admissions Are Unfair, Sure… We Still Shouldn’t Care](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Elite College Admissions Are Unfair, Sure... We Still Shouldn't Care | HuffPost College)</p>

<p>In typical Puffington Host fashion its rife with red herrings and shoddy rhetorical tricks. Unz article is sooooooo “long”; HYP arent elite, they are “fancy”; people who from on the Ivy’s discrimination are hyperventingly think its “really important”;why bother thinking about it because nothing is going to change; accuses the asian kids trying to getting to Harvard of thinking they “deserve to be in the Elite” ruling the country. </p>

<p>Meanwhile a Harvard flack has entered the fray, release a 2 paragraph statement so heavily wordsmithed by the lawyers with an eye to future litigation that it essentially says nothing beyond "we didnt do nuttin’ " and “we refuse to say what we do do”. It heavily recalls “Lefty” Rosenthal’s testimony before Congress where he issued a brief statement and then took the 5th when the committee had the impertinence to ask where he lived and if he was left-handed.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league/harvard-shuns-quotas-and-narrow-criteria[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league/harvard-shuns-quotas-and-narrow-criteria&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The current Times debate echos this thread writ large- the arguments put forth by the defenders of institutionalize racism are embarrassingly shoddy and logically hollow. They cant cogently defend the position because it is indefensible- so we get complaints about long articles, anti-semitism, and invocation of the magic wand of ‘holistic’ (please dont look behind the curtain). </p>

<p>Unz was exactly right when he invoked Lenin’s “who/whom”. The HYPs are getting too much benefit from their policies to ever change just because of a few brown strivers. Throw them another few percent on the on the quota and it’ll silence them. The only thing that will change them is legal action.</p>

<p>I’ve gotten to the point where I hope there is legal action and let the cards fall where they may. I can’t imagine why we want some other organization to determine the way the elites select their students, but I really don’t care, either.</p>

<p>All it will serve to do is to decentralize the collection of power at these institutions and spread it around more evenly to other institutions, leaving them where they really ought to be anyway. Educators and not kingmakers.</p>

<p>Schools like Uchicago and MIT have worked very hard to shake off their drudge veneer, and these schools have worked very hard to remain places of joy and life education and not to become drone factories. But, if they are forced to become drone factories? Other schools will become more exciting and dynamic. The US is like that. We have state universities and privates. If the state gets too involved in the way the privates work? The privates will lose their power and allure. It will be like nationalizing the great private universities. They will all begin to look the same.</p>

<p>And exactly when was MIT a drone factory?</p>

<p>^ around 1995? :D</p>

<p>Honestly, why should these institutions have special admissions protections? Just make them take people based on test scores. I think it is a waste of time to go through all of that selecting for talents and gifts and personality and skills. Just go down the line, best test score to the least of what they have to accept.</p>

<p>Then, tell the students they just have to go to whichever school they are placed in based on test score and then, one school will automatically be sanctioned as 1st, then 2nd, 3rd. </p>

<p>We could let US News decide who “gets to be” first.</p>

<p>I think that would be the best solution.</p>

<p>The deference to these places as “places of utmost power that goodness knows, you won’t ever gain if you don’t go there” is interesting culturally as well. Here’s a clue - maybe if you stopped genuflecting, they’d be more interested. No one wants a sycophant.</p>

<p>Yes, the genuine love of real learning is overwhelming in this debate. The love of the freedom of colleges to choose students.</p>

<p>But, remember, not far behind colleges not being allowed to choose comes students not being allowed to choose, either. AFter that? Good luck being allowed to choose your own field of study.</p>

<p>Perhaps, the best solution would be to accept students based on test scores, then to place them in the school they must attend, based on test score, and to place them in the major they are allowed to pursue, based on test score? That would be the best use of our resources.</p>

<p>Since they do seem to be “our” resources, as far as argbargy is concerned.</p>

<p>Will we still “allow” test prep under our new system? I think, no. No test prep. If you get caught doing test prep, you will be charged with misdemeanor tampering with an application and banned from the application process. We are looking for “pure” intellectual ability, here, objective. NO subjectivity allowed.</p>

<p>“But, remember, not far behind colleges not being allowed to choose comes students not being allowed to choose, either. AFter that? Good luck being allowed to choose your own field of study.”</p>

<p>Remember when I said the HYP racism defenders arguments were embarrassingly shoddy and logically hollow? You dont have to bend over backwards to give us another, there were already plenty in this thread.</p>