How did you do your first cut of colleges?

<p>D had a school in mind when she was a HS freshman. She was also interested in a few (3) other schools. All were out of state and located in urban areas. We told her that she had to choose 4 state schools to visit and she did. She hated one, was so-so on another, and really liked 2 of them. She ended up applying ED to her original choice and EA (non-binding) to another. Got into both, so other apps were never sent.</p>

<p>We looked at some of the college guidebooks, but more for information rather than rankings. D did not care at all about rankings, cared very much about finding the best fit.</p>

<p>Initially I did research (google, CC) looking for scholarship opportunities for high stats and NMF students. Eventually we looked more on fit aspects. Things got a lot easier when son declared that Engineering major was required (he was still also considering Math or Physics, but they tend to be offerred at schools with Engineering).</p>

<p>Two web sites I found useful were Petersons (where you can get like format info for all of the colleges) and MyChances (especially the scattergrams). Also Naviance once the high school started using it. </p>

<p>On criteria, I like the non-stop air trave destingations too, especially if there is easy transportation to the college from the airport. Huge bonus points for cities within a few hours of family.</p>

<p>I’ll third Insiders Guide to the Colleges. The big ones like Fiske are good for objective data (size, geography) but that book best described the feel and fit of a place, and most of my visits confirmed what I had read in there…</p>

<ol>
<li>Initial cuts - geographic location (no more than 3 hour plane ride or 7 hour drive away), size (2,000-7,000), not preppy</li>
<li>Visited 5 schools on my list that were quite different from one another in one weeklong trip - rural and urban, bigger and smaller, more athletic vs more politically active.</li>
<li>Realized that I didn’t like too rural or too urban, a small to medium city was ideal. Realized that I didn’t like intellectualism for the sake of intellectualism. Realized that I like the smaller size of my previous size limit, 2,000-3,500.</li>
<li>Thought about money - we can afford full-pay, but I wanted to have some merit aid options in case things changed in the next year.</li>
<li>Applied to 2 safeties EA, both of which offered me good merit aid. Applied to 10 more RD (in retrospect, not all of them were necessary as I would’ve picked one of the EA one over a few of them).</li>
</ol>

<p>some folks with very specific criteria can reduce the list to manageable size (small enough to give some thought to all) by starting with the total list and then cutting it back by criteria.</p>

<p>Many folk cannot. They usually use SOME list/guidebook/ranking to shrink the universe of possible schools to manageable size (with openness to some schools not on that list that are otherwise recommended). Fiske, Princeton, USNWR, or more than one.</p>

<p>Which suggests to me that USNWR is a useful tool in the college search process for people who are NOT necessarily obsessed with narrow differences in rank.</p>

<p>For both my kids the process was remarkably similar. I checked out some of the guidebooks (Fiske, Princeton maybe Insiders Guide) from the library. I asked for advice here at CC. I passed the info on to my kids. They both had geography requirements that narrowed the list considerably. For both a few visits junior year helped them define what they were looking for in college. (For oldest it was “I don’t care about anything except my major” (computer science). For my youngest the visits confirmed that location and campus were important and that he was looking for normal to quirky populations, he also had a major in mind that is definitely known to be better at some schools than others.)</p>

<p>We also used USNWR as a rough gauge of academic quality, in that older son’s schools ranked 68 or better and younger son’s schools ranked 84 or better.</p>

<p>How did we make the first list of 25 with our daughter?</p>

<p>Schools that seemed appealing based on conversations with respected adults and recent graduates.
Schools in the cities that appealed that had the right size, major, etc. (Daughter wanted to live in a city.)
We ruled out whole geographical areas ruthlessly: nothing in Texas, California, the South, that kind of thing.
My contribution was: NO schools that had ever been listed as a Top Ten Party School by anyone. I also added: NO schools with a 100% acceptance rate. </p>

<p>For son, it was MUCH MUCH easier. There were only three schools on his short list and he only applied to two of them.</p>

<p>So, I listed how not to do this in post #37. Here’s the strategy that gave me the best result:</p>

<ol>
<li>Pick a safety with guaranteed admission, guaranteed merit aid, and reasonably good academics in engineering. U Oklahoma fit the bill nicely.</li>
<li>My parents wanted to see at least one very small school on the list. U of Tulsa offers pretty good engineering and is generous to NMFs while remaining small and well-rounded.</li>
</ol>

<p>Now, down to the main list. I took the top ~50 schools on the USNews engineering ranking and did the following:</p>

<ol>
<li>Remove all schools that I know are in unappealing locations. Down to 35.</li>
<li>Remove all schools with engineering programs that I do not especially like. Down to 27.</li>
<li>Remove all schools with very lopsided male/female ratios. Down to 24.</li>
<li>Remove schools near the bottom of the list that do not offer unique programs, great locations, or merit aid. Down to 18.</li>
</ol>

<p>From here, I examined lots of objective data on everything from snowfall to the number of Target stores nearby and used that to form subjective quality of life point scores for each school. This established about five favorites, and I’m just working out a few more optional additions from the remainder of the list.</p>

<p>^ this sounds familar to both my kids approach … </p>

<p>I’ve been through this 1 4/5ths times so far and I’ve come to the conclusion that reach/match/safety mindset so often harped on on CC is probably not the best way to go and often might turn out to be counter-productive. Why counter-productive? Almost by definition it creates a tiering of schools by prestige as opposed to school attirbutes that will draw the student.</p>

<p>Earlier I mentioned I created spreadsheets for my kids … the second got a hold of it when the schools were split into reaches/matches/safeties … and reorganized it by high interest / mid interest / low interest and the reach/match/safety thing is listed an attrbute in a column just like size of school or location of school … this turns the whole process on it’s head and focusses on the attributes the student is seeking. My oldest did not formally do this but if she had … for both my kids their high interest schools would have included … for kid #1 (reaches and matches) and for kid #2 (matches and safeties … (while reaches showed up lower on the interest list)). The only gotcha was for kid #1 after having the her initial list she really needed to think about a safety because her search did not naturally lead to one.</p>

<p>Both my kids #1 schools are matches and not reaches … and if they explain why they like those schools best it makes PERFECT sense. Focussing on the attributes of the school allowed them to consider more schools … and consider more on par … than I believe they would have if they had been focused on reach/match/safety.</p>

<p>Again, I think almost any student can get to a manageable list and a list that has reach/match/safety covered by thinking through attributes …

  • size of school
  • location
  • majors offered (I suggest schools that have all/most of the majors they are considering)
  • urban/rural
  • male/female mix
  • frat/sor precense
  • need for FA or merit
  • how they want to fit in academically (be a star, be average, OK with being below average)
  • ability to continue in their EC
  • etc</p>

<p>"Again, I think almost any student can get to a manageable list and a list that has reach/match/safety covered by thinking through attributes …

  • size of school
  • location
  • majors offered (I suggest schools that have all/most of the majors they are considering)
  • urban/rural
  • male/female mix
  • frat/sor precense
  • need for FA or merit
  • how they want to fit in academically (be a star, be average, OK with being below average)
  • ability to continue in their EC"</p>

<p>Not my DD. She was hardly limited by location - she was willing to go with rural OR urban, and was looking everywhere from New Orleans and St Louis to the east coast. She was willing to compromise on at least one of the majors she was considering for the right match on academic rigor, campus life, etc. She did not prefer greek life, but was willing to accept it. She did not rule out all female colleges, and ended up a predominantly male tech school. </p>

<p>She has some fairly specific goals, but not of the sort that could be expressed easily in a set of numbers to be found in big book. </p>

<p>I think there are many others who are like that, which is why Fiske, etc are so popular as starting off points.</p>

<p>Brooklynborndad</p>

<p>– my son is a rising 10th grader & I have already started his list – Yup – Mom is doing it at this stage. Why? Because after helping neices over the last year with this process and talking to son I realize he is very much like your daughter – Very few limiting criteria.</p>

<p>He is an East Coast boy with a West Coast attitude.</p>

<p>He only cares about weather – not too cold/dark/dreary – not too hot & sunny (he is very pale & burns easily). But 2 months of hot or a months of frigid is fine.</p>

<p>He is smart, but not yet driven/motivated. Anotherwords, he scores well on standardized tests and currently has a solid GPA, but I don’t expect he’ll be Ivy material in attitude. </p>

<p>He is balanced in both humanities & sciences.</p>

<p>He procrastinates.</p>

<p>He has done summer programs on college campuses and has gone on a few visits with his cousin. He really has no preference of size of student body.</p>

<p>He likes being around “thinking” students, but could care less in regards to prestige. This means Tier 1 - Tier 4 are good so long as the Tier 4 has honors that isn’t 90% female only.</p>

<p>I am using the CTCL, Princeton Review Top guide, this site, and the “popular” with his high school for getting lots of merit.</p>

<p>I have now enlisted my DH to help. I figure if we can get a solid list of 50 and visit a variety over the next 2 years then son will have a solid list of 15 of HIS choosing.</p>

<p>The financial aspect is our most confining. Our family income has only recently jumped to a figure that may knock us out for FA at many schools. This means son either needs to be competitive enough for the likes of Williams, Pomona or needs to focus on lots of merit.</p>

<p>Not so daunting if you look at it from the perspective of building a list rather than cutting down possibilities. We used US News search and sort capabilities and D read a few guides. Having found schools that meet the critieria don’t worry about the “school that got away”. A lot of it is serendipity. D ended up at a CTCL we had never heard of.</p>

<p>Currently going through the same process with S who will be a junior this year.</p>

<p>Longhaul’s approach may be a viable one for your family. Since your daughter is so indecisive, perhaps you take building the initial list out of her hands. Check academic fit first by using the online sites that allow you to plug in her stats to obtain an initial broad list. </p>

<p>Then create a list of criteria that is important to YOU… that may be the price tag, or distance for home, or setting, etc. If, for example, you’d like to include urban schools but are concerned about safety, research crime rates to cut YOUR list down. If you think she’d thrive at a large university, check class sizes…</p>

<p>There likely isn’t anyone who knows her better than you so I’d think if you take the lead on building the initial list, you’re still bound to find the right fit.</p>

<p>Brooklynborndad,</p>

<p>With S1, we knew the flagship would take him, give him tons of credit, and that he was a good candidate for merit $$. He had been doing research there already and we know many friends who took the merit ride and were happy. He was willing to make a go of it.</p>

<p>The rest of the list focused on schools with excellent programs in his intended major(s) that were flexible with placement and would give him access to early graduate work. (This knocked out most LACs off the bat, somewhat to S’s disappointment.) He never had 25 schools on the list; a dozen, tops. This boiled down to mid-size research universities in urban areas (since he has no desire to drive).</p>

<p>We looked at S’s friends at school with similar interests to see where they applied. Keeping an ear to the ground with parents and paying attention when one is carpooling were great ways to gather info. </p>

<p>Naviance gave us an excellent idea of how college admissions would respond to his academics, GPA and scores. He was at a similar school to your D’s. Most importantly, he talked/IM’d FB’d with folks from the programs he was involved with (USACO, HCSSiM, etc.) and got feedback from students who were a year or two ahead of him, some who were grad students, and some faculty from these programs. This helped give S a sense of the strengths/politics/paths of the various departments and helped him cut some schools from the list, as well as increasing his interest in some.</p>

<p>He had nine on his list, dropped three after getting into two of his top three EA, and added one pie-in-the-sky after hearing good news EA. In retrospect, I would have kept only three applications still active after the EA admits (one was the flagship, one was his #2, and the other a school he dropped which I now think would have made him quite happy).</p>

<p>We asked both kids to include a couple of schools fitting their parameters that offered merit $$, and both were accepted at places that gave them scholarships.</p>

<p>With S2, the main focus was also on quality of programs in his intended field – though his specific major is a little more flexible. Applied to flagship, but did not want a huge school (even though he’s a sports nut; we’ll see how that plays out). With this kiddo, there were 29 schools under consideration. We visited most of them over the course of two years – some in the process of looking at S1’s schools, a good number were within a couple hours’ drive, some he visited when there for sports camps/Model UN conferences. He was considering playing D-III football and had talked to coaches, but halfway through senior year got cold feet about it. He was VERY glad he focused his list on academics, not football, and that he had not made any commitments or asked for early reads, etc.</p>

<p>He split his apps between mid-size research Us and LACs. Considered two Ivies but chose not to apply.</p>

<p>Naviance was again our friend. We looked at schools that were kind to students from his IB program and would understand that his GPA did not represent slacking. Most of his list was to the low reachy side since we did not know how schools would react to his application. </p>

<p>S2 had 10 on the list, dropped three after getting in EA at his tied-for-top-choice, added one mega-reach LAC after getting in to the EA.</p>

<p>Lesson we learned: don’t bother adding a reach after getting EA results. In retrospect, neither kid would have chosen the mega-reach over the EA acceptance already in hand, and that last-minute app just didn’t get the same kind of love as the other ones did, so not surprisingly, neither one got into that last-minute reach.</p>

<p>Didn’t look at USNWR rankings. Had the “365 most selective schools” book, which gave some general gist of the place. Both my kids spent time on CC asking questions and reading threads.</p>

<p>Other criteria:
Weather was irrelevant to both of them. Did not want the south. Did not care for Ivies, though both considered them (and one applied). Liked cities with good air/train connections (yeah Southwest!). Mid-size schools with graduate programs. I was thrilled to see they both liked the Midwest. Chances to get interesting and/or well-paying internships. Places where students cared about academics. House system was really important to one of my kids. Neither was looking for Greek life. Wanted some Jewish presence on campus. S2 wants access to kitchen facilities. One school dropped right off the list when the guide sniffed that “we don’t cook here.”</p>

<p>Just my opinion:</p>

<p>If you look through my past posts, you’ll see that I have no love for the Princeton Review Best 3xx Colleges book. However, I do feel that it is probably the best guide. I have not been at all impressed with Insiders because the reviews seem very variable making comparisons difficult and I’ve seen some pretty drastic factual errors in that book. Fiske provides a coherent perspective, but it comes from a very strongly slanted angle. PR is actually the best book I have used.</p>

<p>^^^Will add that neither S REALLY looked at the differences in core/distribution requirements between the various schools until late in the day. If you want AP scores for accelerated standing or to get rid of odious (to the kid) requirements, pay attention!!! </p>

<p>Some IR majors want eight semesters of foreign language; some math programs require many humanities/social science/history courses. Read those catalogs so you at least have a sense of the various schools’ requirements.</p>

<p>We didn’t think that much about reach, match, safety for either kid. Older son had the stats that made all his match schools reaches, so he found two safeties he liked and then applied to top comp sci programs and/or top schools. </p>

<p>Younger son stumbled into an idea for a possible major as part of the process of looking at colleges (he started off saying maybe history, but I don’t want to be an academic - international relations seemed to fit his interests really well as he started looking at what colleges offered), and fell in love with his safety early on. Because he liked it so much, and I knew he had a decent chance of getting into its honors program, I didn’t panic when he hated all the obvious match schools on the original list. He dropped several more schools when he unexpectedly got into a real reach EA.</p>

<p>It certainly makes it easier to put a list together if you have a major in mind, though especially for my younger son, it was important that there be fallback majors if he changed his mind. (And it was the one drawback to his safety - it’s very strong in IR, not so much in other fields.)</p>

<p>I’ll add that Naviance did quite a good job of predicting acceptances. The reaches where S2 was accepted he was not a complete outlier in terms of grades and scores. He basically hit the jackpot every time he was in iffy territory - older son did not. I think, here the difference was that S2 understood the game of crafting an application, much better than my older son did and also applied to schools where he could respond to their particular brand of quirky questions. (Optional and supplemental essays at Vassar, Tufts and Chicago all served him well.)</p>

<p>"Longhaul’s approach may be a viable one for your family. Since your daughter is so indecisive, perhaps you take building the initial list out of her hands. Check academic fit first by using the online sites that allow you to plug in her stats to obtain an initial broad list. "</p>

<p>You misunderstand me. We have already been through this process, DD graduated HS in June.</p>

<p>And DD was far from indecisive. However she was very open on some of the criteria folks here use to cull their list. </p>

<p>My point here, is that for kids like her, a RANKING based on academic rigour/selectivity is very useful. And that lots of people use rankings - whether Naviance data, Princeton Review, the implicit culling of inclusion in Fisk,e or the USNWR rankings for that culling. We used BOTH Fiske, and the USNWR rankings. Naviance type info was less useful, as DD was something of an outlier at her school (a relatively low GPA/rank at the country’s number 1 ranked public HS, but high SATs)</p>

<p>And of all those ways of establishing a list, USNWR rankings with ALL their problems and innaccuracies, are more transparent than inclusion in Fiske or Princeton Review.</p>

<p>Ergo, the USNWR rankings, while they should not be a bible, or encourage a student to spend $200,000 cash on a school when a similar experience is available cheaply at a school a few places down the list, can still be very useful to many families.</p>