<p>@hoggirl and @momzie - Exactly! My parents did save and pay for their kids to go to prestigious colleges, so my dad feels perfectly entitled to tell me that we should do “the same” without any real awareness of how money, and rankings for that matter, have changed over the years. He has a hard time getting outside his own vantage point - an example, he told me when I graduated that he was sorry he couldn’t contribute to a car as his own dad had, but that finances were different “nowadays” so that was impossible. But that logic could never be translated to Princeton’s cost in 1988 vs. in 2015.</p>
<p>@Momzie, my mother-in-law was the exact opposite. She had a MENSA-level IQ (and told everyone she met as much!), grew up during the Great Depression, and put herself through school to get many degrees over the years, bagging a UC professor along the way who became my DH’s stepfather! To her, my alma mater (Penn) was not in the same league whatsoever as Berkeley or UCLA, and only a fool would waste money on an Ivy League education when there are good publics available. (She did acknowledge, somewhat begrudgingly, that for some students it could be more affordable to attend the “fancy” private than the public option if FA was a factor as it was in my case.) </p>
<p>She was all about VALUE, and for all our headbutting over the years, I’m sure she’d be quite happy that her grandson is attending a public university that offered him a “good deal.” </p>
<p>She was also very generous to our family over the years, and I am extremely grateful to her. All her frugality over the years benefited us to a great extent.</p>
<p>@LucieTheLakie - yep. This is how my fil is. I am certain he thinks we are bat cr@p crazy to pay what we will be paying. “Frugal” would be a kind word - he is cheap. Every time he would see my ds, the first thing he would ask was if he had “gotten any more money.” </p>
<p>That seems to be the challenge of this thread: how does one define, “value.” Clearly, it is different things to different people. However, IME “value” can’t be TOTALLY about the price, but it would be to my fil.</p>
<p>@Hoggirl, you’ve hit the nail on the head. We all define “value” differently. My mother-in-law would be thrilled my kid earned a full scholarship (because that would mean he’s SMART), but she might not bee too keen on the actual school he’ll be attending. I like to think she’d be on board, but we can only guess.</p>
<p>I’m a snob in my own way, so I “get it,” regardless of the individual biases, but I figure if the school meets my snooty standards, it’s plenty good enough! ;-)</p>
<p>
@catmom, This is the situation I am in now, after I have paid for DS’s UG. I really can not afford to pay both UG and grad school. It is also my goal of not becoming his burden in my old age. I think a lot about moving to a cheaper place in the future after retirement so that whatever money we still have after having paid for 4 years of private college could stretch more. We still pay whatever we can for his grad school but much less now. So his student loan debt (but not ours) started to pile up (will reach six figures eventually) after he had started the grad school.</p>
<p>We all define value differently. I will just offer that we live below our means, and my husband is often close to be downright cheap (of the “you don’t really need that air conditioning,. it’s only 90 degrees out” and everything-with-a-coupon) – and he has said that he would have paid double for our kids’ education. It is THAT important to us that it has been a top financial priority since before our kids were born.</p>
<p>Double. 65000 X4=256,000 x2= $512,000. Half a million bucks.</p>
<p>So here you have one couple willing to pay $500,000 for an undergraduate education. This is a good indication that college costs at the top schools are no where near their peak.</p>
<p>We have no true financial safety school for D. The in state COA for 2014-2015 at our state flagship in her area of interest is more than $35,000, with no hope for FA and scant merit aid offerings. It’s little wonder that we went “shopping” elsewhere. And we have been pleasantly surprised at the relative affordability of “fancy-schmancy” colleges compared to good ole’ state U. For us, the economical option is apt to be a private out-of-state school that offers decent merit aid. </p>
<p>“Double. 65000 X4=256,000 x2= $512,000. Half a million bucks. So here you have one couple willing to pay $500,000 for an undergraduate education. This is a good indication that college costs at the top schools are no where near their peak.”</p>
<p>I don’t really think it’s a reflection on anyone else but us. And of course it’s easy to say “willing to spend twice the amount” when it’s not really what’s on the table. My larger ooint, though, is that not everyone who is paying full-freight at this level of school “thinks it’s a poor value and is trying to justify it in some way.”</p>
<p>I’d like to see before and after assessments, as in “how did you justify this?” when your child turned down good merit money and in “how did you justify this?” after graduation (or, in rare instances, dropping out), and particularly for students who entered with better than average credentials for the school and graduated closer to the bottom of their class than to the top and/or without achieving original goals, or students who graduated with significant debt and no job in sight.</p>
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<p>I don’t think it’s a poor value either, not if you have the money saved or can afford to pay for it out of your annual income–with or without a little belt-tightening. But that’s quite a different scenario than somebody taking on a lot of debt or raiding their retirement funds because “nothing but the best” will do for Junior and he’s “earned it.” If Junior is as incredible as Mom and Dad believe, he will do just fine at the second (or third) best.</p>
<p>Like @EllieMom, our in-state flagship now costs $34,000 a year, and we were not eligible for any FA there, since virtually nobody is. That was our upper limit, but we knew we’d be a LOT more comfortable with something in the $25,000/year range. I know from my own experience 35 years ago that a private university is often more affordable than a public one–IF you’re eligible for FA. And we took a very similar approach with our kid. </p>
<p>We did end up with a tremendous offer from one private school, that would have made it slightly less expensive than our flagship, but my son just didn’t like the school when we went to visit. Plus, he changed his mind about what he wanted in terms of course of study and size of student body. He’s happy with his choice to take a full-scholarship at non-prestige OOS flagship. And, I’m not gonna lie: We’re thrilled with the cost and I will sleep a LOT better at night. And I don’t see this discussed much on CC, but I can’t tell you how delighted I am to NEVER have to fill out all those FAFSA and CSS Profile forms again and to know that we can comfortably afford to pay for our son’s education without anyone taking on any debt.</p>
<p>I’m sure if money hadn’t been an issue for us, there are some schools our son might have been happier at than where he’s going in the fall, but we never allowed him to apply to those schools after running their net price calculators–fantastic places but well beyond our means. I’m genuinely happy for those who can afford to attend those schools, just like I’m genuinely happy for my friends and neighbors who can afford to write a check for a new Lexus or a family cruise. The people I don’t envy are the ones who max out on credit cards or are living off home equity loans to finance their lifestyles. I’m much happier driving my 10-year-old, paid-in-full Subaru, and knowing the only debt we have is the mortgage on our home–which will be paid off the year the kid graduates from college.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl. It stands to reason that if you would have paid more than you are paying now for the school your kids are at so would other people. Therefore the school and others like it can and will continue to charge more. People see value in attending .</p>
<p>Will there ever be an upper limit? There are quite a few wealthy people in the world. What if Harvard decides to charge a million bucks for their degree? I think they still easily fill their class. I think people still find value there.</p>
<p>
That’s the $64,000 question, isn’t it? And that’s pretty much what one year at a good private school costs! ;-)</p>
<p>@sax
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<p>I had to smile when I read your post. I have found this thread quite fascinating b/c the posts simply reflect we are all living completely different realities from each other. Conversing on this topic is rather pointless b/c the words we are using to define things may as well belong to different languages. How do you reconcile “value” when some are paying $41,000 for a pocketbook and that same amt might be 1/4 of the value of someone else’s home and they live pay check to pay check in order to make their mortgage payment. Obviously they could not even begin to have a meaningful conversation on budgeting!! :)) </p>
<p>It really is as simple as we all need to be prudent to our own fiscal reality. Some parents are in the position where being frugal may allow financing dream schools. Others aren’t. Some may be willing to jeopardize their future financial security to send their children to their dream school. Some won’t be. </p>
<p>Knowing what others can or can’t do or are willing or unwilling to do is simply irrelevant. The only thing you need to do is know your own parameters and make your kids aware that they live in your reality and no one else’s. It has never been an issue for our kids. They know that they are one out of many and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. 
Not a problem and it has never negatively impacted their lives or their plans. </p>
<p>Well, that’s why it’s never a conversation that can have any consensus. It’s always easy to spend other people’s money.</p>
<p>The point isn’t that some are willing to pay more – obviously rich people have more money to spend than poor. and the elite colleges are attractive precisely because they are perceived as appropriate places for rich people to send their kids. I’m sure that if my net worth was, say, $50 million – I’d feel the same way. (I’d hate to be the miserly type who simply hoards my money). </p>
<p>But as the cost of college goes up, there will tend to be a drop off in terms of what upper middle class might be willing to pay – that is, the people who are financially very comfortable but don’t have the level of wealth to support an ostentatious life style. (People who might be able to afford to fly business class on all their vacations as opposed to people who can afford to own their own private jet.) So you would expect to see a widening gap in student/parent incomes – so that the students who qualified for substantial need-based aid would still come to whatever extent the colleges were willing to fund them — but the upper-middle-class income gap would become ever wider. </p>
<p>In other words: let’s suppose a hypothetical married couple with children with an annual income of $300K. At what price point does that couple drop out of the full-pay elite college market, in favor of the search-for-merit money market? When that family leaves the market – there will still be others who are richer than they who will take those spots – (demand still far exceeds supply) – but it doesn’t change the fact that an ever-increasing number of people are being priced out of the market.</p>
<p>Whether that is a bad thing or if it matters at all … I don’t know. One benefit from that dynamic is that over time, it might reduce the appeal of the elite, need-only colleges as a status symbol, and thereby work to the benefit of the many excellent colleges that opt to use merit money to attract top students. </p>
<p>Agree. And I do think the consumer goods analogy makes sense in terms of shopping habits. There are those who perceive the small subset of colleges that don’t discount their tuition (i.e., offer merit) as “premium” brands that are better precisely because their high cost makes them affordable only to those with similar means OR who are poor enough to benefit from the schools’ generosity with financial aid. At the other end of the spectrum are people who just won’t buy anything if it’s not a good “deal” or “on sale”–even if they have the money. They are perhaps more suspicious about retail pricing and feel smart and gratified when they get a good deal on something they want. They see with their own eyes that a great college education can be had for $10k, $25k or whatever, just as they see that their Honda Accord is a great car even though everyone says a BMW is nicer. Or something like that. :)</p>
<p>@calmom, great post, but really the hypothetical $300000 income couple is in the less than 5% of all income earners. ($232,000 was the 5% number in 2013). So what % of that actually have college age kids attending college? It has to be a comparatively small # that have kids specific to that age bracket. Probably too small a number to cause a ripple in the pond. </p>
<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeek
Would you mind sharing your source on the income bracket. Thanks.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/does-your-family-make-over-232000-congrats-youre-in-the-top-5-percent/”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/does-your-family-make-over-232000-congrats-youre-in-the-top-5-percent/</a></p>
<p>(Fwiw, I simply googled top 5% income bracket 2013.)</p>