<p>However, it is true that divorces are highly destructive to family finances – the divorcing spouses may spend much of their money on lawyers and incur increased expenses living separately instead of together. Then they may squabble over contributions to the kid’s college fund, resulting in less or no parental contribution, even though most colleges will expect both parents to contribute (and more if they remarry to new spouses bringing in more income).</p>
<p>Our first child will cost $9k more per year to attend Northwestern than our average-at-best state school – $6500 loans and $2500 work study per year (the rest is equal after FA). But one big consideration is his sibling coming behind. I don’t believe our state school would provide any financial aid other than loans even when our second child is in college as well. Meanwhile Northwestern will cut our EFC in half, which will make Northwestern the same as our state school for his last 2 years after the loans and work. So the difference between the two is $18k, and both the loans and work are his. He wanted NU, so it works for us.</p>
<p>Other than true affordability, I think important factors are also:
Where will the child fit in best
Will the child be stretched - some do better in environments where they are not top dog, whilst others wither if they are not the best
Apart from an education, are there other things to be gained by going to one school and not the other - e.g. is the make- up of the school sufficiently diverse to give the students the opportunity to learn about other peoples and their cultures (although this is only important if you have leadership aspirations for the future)
The power of Alumni - again, this is only important for certain professions
Your child’s character. If the child is easily led, one school might stand out as being better than the other because of its location etc. etc.</p>
<p>So this doesn’t directly answer your question, but I’ll say it anyway:</p>
<p>My brother was accepted to, among other schools, University of Florida (Honors College with full scholarship) and Emory (about 60K per year). Where’d he go? Emory. The primary motivator was my brother’s social needs. He wanted a small, urban school, which makes me question why he’d have applied to UF as a safety/match of a school like Brandeis or NYU, but I digress. He graduated from Emory more intelligent and, more importantly, more mature. I can’t say whether he’d have graduated from UF the same.</p>
<p>If you are not in that category of folks who can pay for any college costs without blinking an eye, if there are contingencies and tradeoffs that impact everyday life to pay for college, then you are taking risks when you commit to pay for college. The more you have to pay and the more uncertainty there is that you can make it happen, the more the risk is. If you are counting on keeping your job, your pay level, no big ticket expenses, expecting your kid to “make it” in a high earning field, counting on you and family making drastic cuts in living expenses when you have not been making those cuts and saving that money in prior years, these are all risks. When it pans out, it’s so wonderful, it’s always sunshine when that happens; what’s more important is how bad it could be if it does not. </p>
<p>I know a family who is sending their DD to a 5-6 year PT program at a top cost school. They are full pay. It’s going to mean scrimping and borrowing on part of both parents and student as the savings part is a bit on the scant side for “just” the quarter million that 4 years there is going to cost. Once there, it will cost more to get the grad part of the program. Worth every cent to them IF the kid gets through the program. She’s 18 years old…teenagers change their minds, a lot. But…they can “afford” it. I have a friend who took the same risk who could not. The girl HAD to make it. She did not. They are in financial ruin. If they don’t get these loans forgiven, I don’t know what will happen. Both DD and mom have been in so, so much trouble because they can’t pay what has ballooned to a quarter million in debt.</p>
<p>So, the downside of the risk has to be carefully considered, without the momentum of emotions which is difficult to do. I can’t do it myself As some very wise and insightful posters have said, education should not be the be all to end all in a family’s well being. It’s not like one’s very life hangs on whether young person goes to this college or the other, and there are many ways to get a degree and educationally prepared for life.</p>
<p>The smugness is as much perceived as some people like to think paying full fare at an expensive school is wasteful and not necessary. OP asked how I justified in paying for a reach instead of financial safety. I justified it by knowing it was always my plan to pay for the best possible education I could afford for my children. My children are 5 years apart, so they wouldn’t be in college at the same time. This was no accident. I understand some people do not think it makes a difference where one goes to college, but I happen to disagree and it doesn’t make me smug. I saw it for the first hand what an excellent education has done for myself and siblings. </p>
<p>The smugness is there when people’s EFC is 0 and then claim their kids are able to pay for college by themselves. The smugness is there when parents have their kids choose a school where the major the kid wants to study is not even offered because it is the cheapest option. The smugness is there when parents spent all of their earnings, so they are able to get more FA than those parents who have saved all their lives for their kids’ college.</p>
<p>Maybe there is a bit of smugness in me because what I have carefully planned out for my kids (to go to any college they want without any debt) actually panned out. I could have a lot bigger bank acct if I didn’t pay for private education for my kids from K-college, and probably didn’t have to work as hard or sacrifice as much of personal time. I realize the path I took is not for everyone, but I will allow a bit of smugness to myself (and also to thank my lucky stars) when I am almost at the end of home stretch.</p>
<p>This is true at my current company and every other place I’ve worked. I could give examples, but for posters who think the world revolves around Wall Street, they would not impress.</p>
<p>When these discussions occur this quote always comes to mind, “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” So much preoccupation with how others spend their money when it comes to college choices…why is that?</p>
<p>There’s another expression for “spending all your earnings.” It’s called “living paycheck to paycheck.” Saving for college is a luxury for many, many people. If you’ve read anything about wage stagnation over the last 30 years and the weakening of the middle class, you’d understand this.</p>
<p>oldfort, you are LUCKY that you have the circumstances you do. No one is dismissing your hard work or the choices you have made. But plenty of people work just as hard as you do and make choices that seem wise at the time and still end up with a different situation when it’s time for their kids to go to college. I could give you numerous examples, as could others here. You still keep missing the larger point–we ALL care about where our kids go to college. We just don’t all agree that your definition of an “excellent education” is the only one.</p>
No, I am not missing any point. I don’t exactly live in my little bubble. I personally know plenty of people who do not care about their kids going to college. I have been on CC long enough that every year I read about parents who refuse to pay (or contribute) to their kids’ education. They believe their kids should be able to do it on their own. Yes, my definition of good education maybe very different than others, but as long as I do not ask others to subsidize my conviction then there is no problem (and that includes my conspicuous consumption when it comes to handbags).</p>
<p>I think unfortunately this thread gone a bit off-topic… the question clearly asked WHAT factors went into the decision not really WHETHER money was THE factor and who is can pay full or not… That said, our D decided to attend a small college with her sport and discipline that was well over $20,000 more a year than the larger state university. The factors that went into the decision were very specific for her as a student and young adult. While she has just finished her freshmen year we can say, without a doubt it was the best decision.
For her, the larger school would not have given her the personalized attention she needs. The social life is appropriate for her. The extra-curriculars are available and not out of reach. She did not care about the location, the dorms, the food quality but more importantly whether the kids on campus were like her. Fortunately, we found a school that has fit her needs- in short, a perfect match.<br>
Our S who has just decided on his college, had a slightly different set of factors to consider and was far more specific. He needed a small school atmosphere as well. He, however, needed a school not in a big city, a school where the weather was comfortable, a school with a good research program for undergrads and a strong, well respected academic program in his major. He wanted sizable dorms, good food service and most importantly “kids like him”. After a lot of visits and a good deal of soul searching, we turned downed all of the schools that offered scholarships and safeties and have gone with the reach. Will it be a struggle? Will we have to tighten the belt? Are we happy with the decisions? YES, YES, and YES!!!</p>
<p>“The smugness you detect here is that some of us have decided to spend our money on our children’s education rather than on other nice to haves, including a lot more Birkin bags.”</p>
<p>Ah, @oldfort, I kind of liked you up until this post. Replace Birkin bags with home & car repairs, extracurriculars for the other kids, & saving for retirement & you’ve got us pegged. </p>
<p>The kid’s options ranged in cost from $10K/year to $60K/year. The kid will be attending the $60K school. We have no regrets about that. I would not have let the kid apply to that school were I not willing to pay full price for it.</p>
<p>Factors we considered, first and foremost and almost exclusively, were 1) quality of education; 2) strength of intended major; 3) “fit.” </p>
<p>Is the education at the $60K school six times better than the education offered at the school with a net cost of $10K? Probably not. But it is difficult to put a price tag on finding a place where one feels comfortable and accepted and surrounded by compatible people, especially when one has struggled for years to find such a place.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think I was more concerned with costs when applying to colleges than my parents. I knew we were in a tough place financially, but I also knew that my parents didn’t want to deny me a chance at a top notch education that was a good fit. I knew going in that they would contribute $10,000 per year to my education. Above that, I was on my own. But I didn’t even want to rely on them for that. My mom was the primary income earner, and she had terminal cancer. That uncertainty played a HUGE role in my decisions about where to even apply. I didn’t want to end up in a school that I suddenly couldn’t afford a few years down the road after my mom died and my dad could no longer contribute what we had expected.</p>
<p>So I applied to schools where I knew I would get full scholarships. And I don’t regret it. I was just listening to a number of TED Talks on branding, and they were talking about how price affects our perception of quality. This is true of wine, medication, clothes, and I think education as well. To exaggerate, the school that costs more and doesn’t offer merit aid to great students must be a top-notch school, right? And there is the brand effect, too: because of the name attached to a product (or in this case to a university), we decide that it is worth more and that it will provide certain opportunities. And because of these expectations (based on both name and price), we derive more pleasure from it than we otherwise would. In this case, we see it as providing more opportunities, whether that’s actually the case or not.</p>
<p>We see what we want to see. Those who opt for the more expensive reach school will see all the opportunities their children had and maturity they gained and see it as a result of this choice. Those who take the cheaper safety option will see the success their children had as occurring regardless of this choice. I think there is a similar effect to what is seen with school choice (<a href=“http://freakonomics.com/2007/10/04/more-evidence-on-the-lack-of-impact-of-school-choice/”>http://freakonomics.com/2007/10/04/more-evidence-on-the-lack-of-impact-of-school-choice/</a>), that those students who apply for school choice have higher graduation rates, regardless of whether they actually win the lottery to go the choice schools - because they are the motivated students. With this analogy, those students who are in a position of having to make this tough college choice are the top, motivated students who would likely succeed academically in a variety of environments.</p>
<p>@nanotechnology what a great post. I am sorry you lost your mother so young. You have added much to this discussion and I hope the OP is helped by this.</p>
<p>I would not be surprised if a non-trivial portion of the parent generation self-funded (through work earnings and small student loans) college with no or minimal parental support*, and did not realize until the kid’s high school senior year that college costs are much higher, and high school graduate work earnings potential is much lower, than they were when the parent generation went to college.</p>
<p>*Often including living expenses attending a college not near the parents’ house.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, for many people I think the decision does come down to finances. My question is, does more expensive necessarily mean better? My George handbag is just as effective for carrying my things as a Birkin one so, for me, the less expensive option is better. If others have different reasons for carrying more expensive bags (features, prestige, etc.), maybe the higher cost items are better for them. I think college choice, like other purchases, is based on individual taste.</p>
<p>There are factors other than cost and name that are important to consider when choosing colleges. Size, location, fit, number of majors suitable to the child, career related opportunities, and honors programs are just some of the criteria that were important to us. Those who don’t believe more expensive necessarily means better may have an easier time choosing a less expensive option over a name brand college. We’ve worked our way through school and carried little to no debt to do it, yet worked alongside people who were limited in their life choices (where they could work or live, what jobs they could afford to turn down, whether they could afford to own a home, when they could afford to get married and/or start a family, etc.) because they were neck deep in loans. We see those laid off around us who, even with degrees from colleges families on CC are borrowing heavily to pay for, are not getting jobs, or are having to relocate halfway across the country (away from aging parents), or are working jobs not related to their field just to make ends meet. Those who can keep their jobs, like a Cornell grad I know who has 2 kids in college, take drastic pay cuts just to keep money coming in. While I’m sure it’s nice to be able to afford to write a check for whatever college your kid wants, not everyone can do so, and it might not be the best choice even for those who can. If you can’t clearly define what makes a more expensive option better for YOU, maybe it’s not better. </p>
<p>There are a couple of points of view that float around on CC, and often come into conflict. The extreme versions are:
Any sacrifice, including lots of debt, is worth it in order to send my kid to a top college.
No college is worth going into debt for, and no college is worth 60 grand a year, even if you have it.</p>
<p>My position is that highly selective colleges are luxury items that are worth buying if you have the money, and they are really worth it if you can get them at a significant discount (the only luxury item I know of for which this is the case). If you can’t afford this luxury item without undue financial sacrifice, your kid can do fine without it. It’s pretty much that simple.</p>
<p>I like the car analogy–any car will get you from place to place, but more expensive cars have options that are nice to have, and are "worth it’ if you can afford them. My wife’s car has a gizmo that warns you if a car is in your blind spot on the right side, and it also has a back-up camera. Those things are kewl. My car doesn’t have them, and I don’t care. But she likes them, and feels that it was “worth it” to get them. But we paid cash for the car. Super-selective colleges have lots of kewl stuff that other colleges don’t have. Again, it’s that simple.</p>
<p>The mention of Cornell grads in peril sparked an anecdote (and I do feel for the grad in such circumstances). I attended a Cornell Alumni Association Employment event in DC (father’s colleague was speaking on the panel) when applying to the school. Those on the panel were all quick to mention to the Cornellians listening that they more than likely will be working for people who graduated from “East Michigan State” (they really trashed Michigan public schools that weren’t UMich IIRC) and its colleague schools. </p>
<p>Another anecdote (take these with a grain of salt), as I chose the less expensive route expecting to go to law school directly after graduation (yes, I do know how KJD applicants are viewed at YS and NU), I became an active member of a popular law school admissions forum. In the past week, I have seen over a dozen applicants posting little rants about how people from Bob Jones and other TTT undergrads are getting into HYSCCN while they’re stuck with a blanket of rejections due to a low GPA (usually <3.2-4 is considered low, or anything below the school’s median hurts an applicant’s chances). I have seen, this week alone, over a dozen posts in the “chance me” section from naive applicants from Cornell, Penn, Berkeley, and like universities posting with low GPAs that they aren’t concerned with their GPA as they went to school X. Everyone on the board has a good laugh, tells them to retake their LSAT to a 175+ if they want to stand a chance, and wishes them the best. From a few months ago, applicants like those I just mentioned were blanketed with rejections this cycle. </p>
<p>Many grad schools/law schools/med schools don’t care about undergraduate prestige. I hope I didn’t deter from the topic too much, but some people don’t find value in paying 50k more per year to end up in the same grad school as the kid from Podunk who graduated with no college debt and had an easier time getting a 4.0. </p>
<p>TL;DR: Undergraduate education is not the end all be all some people make it out to be, which is part of the reason as to why I couldn’t justify the cost of a reach school. </p>
I think this comment shows a point of divergence–many people think of whether a college is worth the cost only in terms of outcomes, and economic outcomes in particular. Others don’t think of it that way. To go back to the car analogy, the rear camera might be worth it because it may prevent an accident. But what about the heated seats and the upgraded sound system? What makes them worth their cost? To some people, they wouldn’t be worth any additional cost–but to others, they are. College is the same.</p>