<blockquote>
<p>Dartmouth at 1500, most admits were above, most deferreds were below - not 100%, but a definite trend. Columbia was just the opposite - lots of the reporting deferreds were above 1500, lots of the accepts were in the mid-high 1400s. What does that mean, who knows?! It makes you wonder, though, does Dartmouth pay more attention to scores, or are they looking for high score kids in the ED round? </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I don't know if you could find two elite universities that are more different than Dartmouth and Columbia. They really are at opposite ends of the spectrum. "Campus culture" is so pervasive at these schools that you would expect to see adcoms focus on different qualities in applicants. That's what makes "campus culture" so self-sustaining. </p>
<p>Simply based on the relative campus cultures of the two schools, I would expect Dartmouth to gravitate more towards "standard", high-achieving well-rounded kids and Columbia to gravitate towards "quirkier", more "intense" kids who may be lop-sided in the sense of being focused towards a particular interest. </p>
<p>I also suspect that Columbia draws more heavily from multicultural large-city magnet and prep schools, Dartmouth more heavily from suburban prep and high schools. The later is going to, on average, produce a bit more uniformly high test scores.</p>
<p>Even though the two schools end up at about the same place, stat-wise, I would expect test scores to be given a little more weight at Dartmouth, while the "one-trick pony" or unusual application gets favorable consideration at Columbia.</p>
<p>You may well be right IDad, and that is the type of "feeling" or "insight" that could be important to applicants, especially those who are applying from far away or without visiting. The type of differences that might help guide an ED decision, or just prevent unsuccessful "shotgunning" of all the Ivy League schools, when they really are different. Predicting outcomes, that is obviously another thing altogether</p>
<p>The most difficult (and maybe important) thing my son did was to put energy and many discussions into thinking about who he is, strengths and flaws, dreams and fears. Armed with that knowledge, he wrote better essays, selected colleges that he imagined would fit with what he wanted to learn, and asked informed and interesting questions on his interviews. Although he did get in to his first choice, every school he applied to was a school where he felt that would have the skills and receive the support to be successful in his chosen field(s).</p>
<p>Judging from my S's experiences with Columbia, I think you are right, ID. I think that some quirky thing in his app got him accepted (though I'm not sure exactly what!) I think he'd've had rougher going with Dartmouth.</p>
<p>my daughter wasn't interested in and didnt apply to the very most competitive schools.
She clearly indentified what she wanted and while she applied to more than she really wanted to ( 5) they were all good schools, excellent in her major and would be a good fit.
She had excellent recommendations and essays ( I haven't seen her essays but she is a very good writer, winning a couple outside scholarships that involved publication so I am assuming they were strong)
She visited all her schools once and her top choice she visited several times twice over night. I don't think that is necessary for all students but as it was in our region they probably expected it more than they would for someone that was across the country.
She had hooks that were not "planned" to look good. First generation college, blue collar, long time volunteer with kids and horses , heavy on the horses.Participated in music,drama, track, strong artist. Came out to classmates, before parents ( we are a little slow on the uptake) . Diagnosed with LDs and ADD but managed to do well at a very challenging prep school. Cute as a button.
I think that getting into your top choice or not has more to do with how good a fit and how competitive the school is, than how you "market" yourself.
Of course I could be wrong , I haven't read any of those books like Admissions confidential or whatever it was. ;)</p>
<p>As I reported above, my kids' approach was similar to your daughter's. Find a set of schools that seem to fit. Choose the one that you most prefer from the ones that admit you.</p>
<p>One difference for both my son and my daughter is that they didn't actually visit most of the schools prior to applying (all RD). My son didn't visit Carleton, Williams, or Chicago prior to applying. But he got in anyway. My daughter visited two of the 5 art schools/programs that she applied to (RISD and CMU). But she got into all 5. (Though she did show her work at a portfolio day to 3 of the 5, which perhaps did help her case.)</p>
<p>So there is definitely an alternative method of finding the "best" school, while still having strong standards, and all that extra strategizing to get into one's #1 early choice may or may not pay off.</p>
<p>I have a question about standardized test scores -- when people report their scores, are they reporting the best combined scores they have taken or simply the luck of the draw at any given sitting?</p>
<p>The reason I ask is because I was having a conversation with someone about the oddity of some of these schools taking the 1400+ scorers over the 1500+ scorers, and someone suggested that perhaps some of the 1400+ scorers were first-sitting scorers who showed good raw ability, whereas some of the 1500+ scorers may have taken the test several times, showing what the adcoms could conceivably consider an overweening interest in finessing those scores over simply being that 'well-rounded person' they are supposedly seeking. </p>
<p>Is that a possible explanation as to why someone with 100 pt. lower score would be chosen? Obviously it is over-simplifying and there are numerous other factors, but it does seem to have a certain logic to it.</p>
<p>Several things helped my son. Very high SAT scores. The way his school reports only a single year end grade with no pluses or minuses for each course so that his medley of grades was ironed out somewhat. 6 AP scores with 3 courses this year where he has made an AP exam commitment also helped, along with the known rigor of his school. He also had an outstanding resume with terrific ECs and very strong drama, music and sports achievements. He also had worked with someone who is at Yale who felt he would be an excellent pick. His current drama teacher at school is also a Yalie and he put in a strong word as well. I felt his essays were a bit risky, but very much a peek at who he is. He did not interview or visit.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, I personally don't think there's much of a difference between a 1400 and a 1500, and would hazard a guess that the SAT scores didn't make or break the admissions decision.</p>
<p>I cannot be of any real help here because my son, as usual, took a somewhat unconventional route during the whole admissions process. He decided that 1) he would be looking for schools that would be likely to offer significant finaid, 2) he refused to take the SAT 2's, 3) he thought that he could be happy at almost any college, and 4) he used the common app in applying to 5 of the 6 colleges.</p>
<p>As a result he did not apply to any "reach" colleges and got the "thick" envelope from all six colleges he applied to, choosing RPI which offered him a total of $25k/yr merit scholarships.</p>
<p>The entire process ended up being very easy and totally stress free!! He did the common app in one Saturday afternoon and wrote his one essay the next evening. All applications were in by early October and the first admission reply came in around Thanksgiving as I recall. He had answers about admission and finaid from RPI and Case around Christmas time. The only late answers were from Wooster and Oberlin coming mid-April I think.</p>