How diverse is the midwest?

Parents Forum
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<p>Oldfort: One quick (off topic) question since you’ve lived “somewhat close” to the area - would you have any problems with either of your daughters spending ten days in Guatemala on a school-related trip? Just wondering if you had an opinion… Thanks!</p>

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<p>I spent 3 weeks in Guatemala with my S and a friend of his working with a charity based here, and I know numerous others who have done the same thing. There is little doubt that the country can be dangerous, in more ways than one, although that can be managed. Where is you D planning to go, exactly?</p>

<p>Actually, you should probably either PM me or start a new thread, so as not to hijack this one. (Although maybe hijacking would do it good! :smiley: )</p>

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<p>Has the OP fled?</p>

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<p>I didn’t travel there because my firm didn’t have business there. But in general, I would say no. D2 went to high school in Mexico and she was very integrated with the locals while we were there. We did as much as we could to allow her a normal teenage life, but she moved about with a bodyguard/driver. She wants to go back this winter break to visit friends. If she goes back, one of us will go with her and our old driver will be driving us. </p>

<p>Teenagers tend to be fearless, they do not believe bad things could happen to them. I don’t know if I would trust someone else for my kid’s safety. I was very cautious when I traveled for work. I don’t know if my kid would be as careful as me. D2’s school never had any class trips to other South America countries, they traveled to the US and Europe (for model UN).</p>

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<p>cobrat, Chicago is segregated compared to other cities that I have lived in, but there is quite a bit of jumbling and melting happening too. I don’t feel that all cultures are holding hands in the Northeast or West either, though I do acknowledge that I felt Berkeley and San Francisco melted a little more than here. </p>

<p>And please, understand that even some small towns have evolved in the last 20 years. My nephew came out at 15 in a farm town in Indiana. Interracial children are not an uncommon site in most Midwestern college towns (as I have witnessed on my many trips to said college towns over the last three years). While it is not perfect there, changes have happened.</p>

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<p>Or as a friend who spent a decade in State College, PA put it… Pennsylvania is two big cities (Philly and Pitts) separated by Arkansas :)</p>

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<p>Why can’t we leave it at this:</p>

<ul>
<li> Wherever you live, be happy with your choice or leave and find a new place that makes you happy</li>
<li> Wherever you live, understand that you are neither inferior or superior to someone who chooses to live elsewhere </li>
<li> Wherever you live, know that others will judge both positively and negatively for living there. But the only thing that matters is whether or not you are happy where you are.</li>
</ul>

<p>When it comes right down to it, we can talk and justify until we’re blue in the face. But this is all just a very, very primitive side to human nature. Since the beginning of any type of organized society, humans have instinctively defended their territory against threats of any kind. “My cave up here on the cliff is way superior to your cave in the valley. Me smart. You dumb. Me survive. You die.” Blah, blah, blah. The debate’s been going on since the beginning of man. Based on this thread, we’ve hardly evolved at all.</p>

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<p>Me Manhattan NY better than You Manhattan KS. Ug, ug, grrrrr.</p>

<p>(jk!)</p>

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<p>cbug, this is timely advice for everyone. This discussion has made me realize that some of my “issues” are not with people observing the Midwest from afar, but with the east-coast transplants who have lived in my city as long as I have (in other words, close to two decades). It gets tiresome hearing the common lament among my New Yorker friends about how they can’t find “real” pizza or good bagels here, and how EVERYTHING is better 'back east." (And it goes without saying that their kids will attend college on the east coast.) Yet here they are, living their lives and raising their kids just like everyone else. (Of course, my guess is that they vehemently defend our town when they go back to where they came from.) It kind of reminds me of people who go to Europe and get mad when they can’t find a McDonald’s, or that when they do, it’s not as “good.” Living here, I certainly miss things I grew up with too, but that makes me appreciate them more when I go back home. And no one wants to be around someone who complains all the time about how where they came from is better. College students should keep this in mind, too, if they want to fully immerse themselves in whatever local culture they find themselves in.</p>

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<p>Well, it is true you can’t find real bagels out here. It’s the water :-)</p>

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<p>I live in the Midwest in a nice medium-sized city. The midwest has a beauty of its own; fall is wonderful, spring is nice. Summer here, I absolutely hate. The humidity! Yech. Where I live there are rolling hills and lovely parks and affordable homes. Several great theaters, good music, great food. All good things. </p>

<p>But I miss the ocean and really, really wish we’d settled nearer to it. Jobs & family ties (h’s family) have kept us here. </p>

<p>Cbug has good advice. I try really hard to love it here and most of the time I do, but it was circumstances and not my choosing that landed us here. I’m hoping to move back to New England (where I’m from) when we retire…we’ll see if H will come with! He REALLY does love it here, through and through. I tell my kids to explore while they are young and not to settle somewhere close just because we’re here!</p>

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<p>I do have to say though as a midwesterner it is off putting to walk down the NYC streets to the Jarvits Center to a trade show from my hotel and be surrounded by heaps of garbage and the smell of urine. This has been every year for several years in a row. Not saying NYC aint great but this is something you don’t experience in Iowa.</p>

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<p>I dunno, PG, it is true that nothing compares to picking up H&H Bagels, some veggie cream cheese, and the Sunday Times in the wee hours of Sunday morning before heading home from a night on the town, but I thought Einstein’s Bagels were pretty good the one time I had them at the U of C. :)</p>

<p>iadorking, agreed that it is off-putting, but you are talking just intensely urban vs not on that particular issue.</p>

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<p>I’m betting a friend and former Chinese-American colleague who had to relocate to Alaska for work has had similar complaints about how he misses the authentic Cantonese Style Chinese food(NYC/West Coast), NYC pizza, bagels, etc. </p>

<p>Funny part, the part about having good authentic Chinese food is one reason a lot of Chinese-Americans I know are reluctant to relocate away from the coasts or major urban areas in the Midwest. And don’t get my Mississippi relatives started on that topic. While there are Chinese restaurants in their area…it’s not the same compared with what they’re used to in NYC, West Coast, and especially in both Chinas.</p>

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<p>Cobrat, some of that is changing as the Chinese population changes in the Midwest. Living where Sally lives, we now have a few places serving native style Chinese food, separate menus for those used to traditional food, etc. The explosion in Chinese studying abroad is probably fueling some changes. Now if this would expand to Korean food, or quality dim sum, I’d be thrilled. </p>

<p>You never know these days where pieces of culture will show up. I found a street in South Sioux City, NE, a few years back with Korean food items I hadn’t seen out of Seoul. And the most amazing authentic tacos pastor across the street, by a Korean video store. </p>

<p>The food options here in the past 28 years have exploded. It may not be LA or NY, but it is evolving all the time, as the supper clubs become a distant memory. </p>

<p>The unfortunate thing about having lived in many places is that you’re always leaving a piece of yourself behind, nostalgic for another local. But was thinking of this thread as I picked tomatoes in the garden tonight. Midwestern fall, harvest season, has an amazing beauty. But part of me, other hours of the day, want to be on the rim of the Grand Canyon, or hiking Big Sur. It is too easy to have many allegiances.</p>

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<p>I think this thread has gotten to a very good place. I find much truth in the last seven posts. And wisdom too. I had many excellent Chinese meals when we lived in San Francisco. (Always a good sign when the order for the chef is written in Chinese.) Still, those meals were quite different from the meals I had when working overseas. I don’t have the words to describe the difference, but there definitely is one. Similarly, it’s difficult to describe why an urbane citizenry would put up with garbage and urine on the streets, yet I can’t recall a time when that wasn’t true. I love Manhattan despite that. I love the Boundary Waters despite the mosquito hoards … DC despite the humidity … LA despite the traffic … and New Orleans despite the mushy soil and moldy smells. Each area has charms, which is why I encourage my own kids to travel as much as they can. There isn’t just one “best way” to live.</p>

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<p>Re: Chinese food</p>

<p>Note that in some places with lots of Chinese immigrants, one can find more varieties of regional Chinese food or food of various ethnic minorities in China. For example: [cumin</a> lamb](<a href=“http://s3-media3.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/iQVCtxVb2jm9DA-8fm3DZg/l.jpg]cumin”>http://s3-media3.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/iQVCtxVb2jm9DA-8fm3DZg/l.jpg), [lamb</a> and pickled cabbage noodle soup](<a href=“http://s3-media4.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/c9OsJdomOoxbJjmhjqT9EQ/l.jpg]lamb”>http://s3-media4.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/c9OsJdomOoxbJjmhjqT9EQ/l.jpg), and [sesame</a> onion bread](<a href=“http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/gg7QecH2kxy71kUqhJTApQ/l.jpg]sesame”>http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/gg7QecH2kxy71kUqhJTApQ/l.jpg) from [url=&lt;a href=“http://s3-media1.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/hPuL0sIqG2ZCamvlzdn5jQ/l.jpg]here[/url”&gt;http://s3-media1.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/hPuL0sIqG2ZCamvlzdn5jQ/l.jpg]here[/url</a>].</p>

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<p>^ Chicago has the 4th-largest immigrant Chinese population in the nation after New York, San Francisco, and LA, and many of them not only know how to cook but make their living at it. It can’t compare to New York’s Chinatown or San Francisco’s, but you can easily find outstanding, authentic, regional Chinese cooking in Chicago.</p>

<p>Can’t beat New York for bagels. My family much prefers Absolute to H&H. But I’ve had much better bagels here in Saint Paul than I’ve ever found in Philadelphia, Boston, Washington, or San Francisco.</p>

<p>As for pizza–lots of places think they have the best pizza. New Yorkers think there’s nothing to compare with New York pizza; I think it’s at its best pretty good but a bit overrated. Bostonians think Boston has the best pizza; I think it’s several notches below the typical New York pizza, though in both cases quality varies widely, with a lot more crap than quality sold. Even little New Haven has people who swear by New Haven pizza and think everything else is a poor imitation; I’d judge New Haven pizza on the whole pretty mediocre, and sometimes just dreadful with soggy, overcooked vegetables sitting around limply on the pie. I’m partial to a Giordano’s stuffed spinach pizza, a true Chicago original that most people in the rest of the country have never experienced first-hand (and don’t be fooled by the chains claiming to be purveyors of “Chicago-style” pizza; that’s just b.s.). We also found some really good pizza in the SF Bay area; quality, fresh, locally sourced ingredients, creatively combined and well presented. And to be honest, my very favorite pizza these days is from a local place here in Saint Paul, Punch, that produces the most authentic Naples-style pizza I’ve ever encountered in this country, complete down to the fresh Italian buffalo mozzarella and San Marzano tomatoes from the foothills of Mt. Vesuvius.</p>

<p>Ex-New Yorkers will always complain that the Chinese food, bagels, and pizza they get in their current location are sub-par, by which they mean it’s not what they’re accustomed to from their childhood in New York. Bagels I’ll concede; New York does bagels better than anywhere, though Montreal does a distinctive variant that’s worth a look. Chinese–well yes and no; for the true connoisseur of Chinese food that may be right, just because of the size and diversity of the Chinese immigrant population in New York in comparison to anywhere else, but I suspect for a lot of the New Yorkers making that complaint it’s just a matter of their comparing their childhood Chinese joint to their current Chinese joint without having made an exhaustive search on either side. For pizza? Well, yeah, everyone likes what they know, but I don’t see much evidence that New York street-style pizza is inherently superior, and personally I’d choose my favorite Chicago, SF Bay Area, and Saint Paul pizzas over a typical New York pizza every time. (My daughters, who basically grew up in New York, might disagree, because for them as for other displaced New Yorkers, their childhood pizza is the gold standard).</p>

<p>As for local preferences, it’s frankly much more important to me to be able to find a good authentic Mexican-style taco* al pastor <a href=“seasoned,%20slow-roasted%20pork%20with%20onion,%20cilantro,%20and%20salsa%20on%20soft%20corn%20tortillas”>/I</a> than a New York-style bagel, pizza, or Chinese dish, and said tacos are much more frequently encountered in Chicago, Minneapolis-Saint Paul, LA, Houston, or Dallas than in New York. </p>

<p>To each his/her own.</p>

<p>Isn’t diversity wonderful, and something to be celebrated?</p>

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not in Arizona</p>

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no I’m here… I just didn’t expect this thread to blow up into 12 pages.</p>

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This is the parents’ forum, where a question like “How many students does Carleton have?” results in 15 pages of 4000 word posts. ;)</p>