<p>I’m thinking your S will get the last laugh, having taken those upper level undergrad math/science classes. If what they say is true, that the rigor of the schedule is the number one factor, your S should have it in spades at his HS.</p>
<p>My S faces the same thing. He’s also taken upper level undergrad math classes, but guess what? They appear on his transcript, but no weighted GPA for these since they aren’t AP classes. (Uh, no they aren’t, they are much more than AP.) Once we got over the shock of that realization, we just moved on. Frankly, we never encouraged S to be a grade grubber and never set a bar for him to be class Val. At our HS, the number one weighted GPA gets Val, and all other weighted GPAs over 4.0 are Sals. At the end of junior year, he was class rank #3 and not sweating it.</p>
<p>And at some high schools, doing well in MORE classes works against you. Consider this example:</p>
<p>Amy and Anna are best friends. Both have earned straight A’s in the same classes through junior year and are tied for the number-one ranking. But now, as seniors, Amy is taking five AP classes. She is again earning A’s in all of them, and–because they are “weighted” courses–the “A” is worth 5 points, not the usual 4. So, for this year, her GPA is a 5 (5 classes x 5 = 25, then divided by 5).</p>
<p>Anna, on the other hand, is taking the same five classes that Amy is taking and is getting an A in each. But she has also elected to take Art History and Economics during two periods when Amy has a study hall. Anna is earning A’s in those classes as well, but there are no " honors" designations for electives, so these two A’s are worth only 4 points.</p>
<p>So … when Anna’s senior year GPA is calculated, she will have 5+5+5+5+5 (25) for her AP classes plus 4+4 (8) for her electives. The grand total (33) will be divided by 7 (the number of classes she’s taking) for a final senior GPA of 4.71. So Amy wins the valedictory spot because she did less work than Anna did!</p>
<p>Seems counterintuitive, eh? But it does happen. Some schools guard against penalizing ambitious students by limiting GPA calculation to the first five “solids” or by making valedictory selections based on subjective factors and not GPA alone. </p>
<p>But there are still many cases where “less is more,” and the students who take fewer classes end up with a higher rank than those with identical grades who challenge themselves with electives.</p>
<p>Quite right, Sally.
I should correct for FindAplace: as you pointed out, college class grades are noted and counted at the HS, but no extra weighting is given. In son’s case Calc IV (ODE), and Calc V (Vector analysis), taken as semester classes at the Uni, are less help for the GPA and class ranking than say ‘honors Algebra I’ spread out over a year taken in the senior year. <shrug></shrug></p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter to us, but clearly the method for computing class rank can be a bit silly.</p>
<p>I love your advice!! My questions are a little off the subject but I really need
some advice. </p>
<p>My daughter is a senior and she has applied ED to a top LA college. However, we
live in a town and state where most kids don’t go to college. In addition, her
counselor does not seem to know anything about applying to college. In fact, when
we had an appt. with him before the comm app was due, he had my daughter get on his computer to figure things out! He had to fax most items because he didn’t know
how to do them through the comm app. He is a really nice guy but is no help to
my daughter. To top it off he spelled the name of the college wrong when he sent
items to them!</p>
<p>My first question (is off the subject) is do you think any top colleges will accept/consider
students based on their location in addition to other requirements? We live in a state (MT)
where probably no others are applying to the college, will this help or hurt her?</p>
<p>My next question is can the college tell through the transcripts that the HS/counselor
is really not helpful when it comes to students applying to colleges using the comm app?
My daughter’s counselor had never used it before!</p>
<p>Although she attends one of the best HS’s in our city, it has not helped her prepare
for college. Her EC’s are great and she has taken all the AP’s, except math, offered but
her GPA is not perfect. </p>
<p>I am currently a high school senior, and am/will be taking many college courses before enrolling in college in the fall.</p>
<p>I am taking most of them at the local community college, and more advanced ones at rutgers (local college).</p>
<p>I want to major in math, and want to start off as close to the “geniuses” as possible.</p>
<p>I am in calc bc, A- or A in all 5 math classes in school.</p>
<p>In Jan, I have linear algebra, Calc III, and Intro to Discrete Math.
In the summer, I will be enrolled in Number Theory, Applied Calc IV, Combinatorics and Modern Physics.</p>
<p>I am currently enrolled in Human Anatomy and Physiology I, and have taken General Physics 203, 204 over the summer.</p>
<p>I was wondering if this is going to help me later on. I don’t care if I can “transfer” credits to a more elite school (if I get in). I just want to be able to take advanced/applied/theoretical courses once I go to college. </p>
<p>I am having a big debate in life wheter to do medicine, math or both.</p>
<p>This will help—maybe even big time. My mother used to joke that someone should start a program called “Senior Year in Wyoming” to help kids get into college. I suspect that Montana would work just as well. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The colleges may or may not be able to tell that the counselor has limitations based on the materials he submitted. Sometimes the recommendation letters written by such counselors have a sort of “inexperienced” ring to them, particularly when the applicant is aiming for highly selective colleges (example: “This young woman is not only taking Advanced Placement classes but she also finds time to take part in extracurricular activities!”)</p>
<p>But this won’t necessarily hurt your daughter and may actually work in her favor. Most colleges–especially the competitive ones–are eager to diversify, and this includes admitting students from a broad range of backgrounds … and states.</p>
<p>But, given your counselor’s unfamiliarity with the Common App–and perhaps with the admissions process in general–your daughter should be sure to contact all of the colleges she applies to in order to check that her materials arrived safely. She should wait about two weeks after submission to do so (even if this takes her past the deadline) unless she’s already ascertained via the college Web site (or any other form of notification from the college) that her application is “complete.”</p>
<p>If she calls and learns that materials from the high school are still missing, she shouldn’t panic (and YOU shouldn’t either!). The college won’t penalize her if she tracks them down promptly.</p>
<p>Challenging yourself with college-level classes should help you in the admissions process and should also put you on solid footing once you matriculate in college full time. It’s likely that you can skip introductory level classes and jump into more advanced ones, and this–in turn–may also put you in a position to apply for internships and research assistantships that will be stepping stones toward future goals. </p>
<p>You already seem to be aware that credits from your current college courses (taken while still a high school student) may not transfer to the college you eventually attend. You also have to be careful that you don’t get TOO ambitious and take on more than you can handle.</p>
<p>As for your career field … don’t agonize over that choice just yet. Allow yourself to take a broad range of classes in colleges. Perhaps you’ll even discover that you love a subject that you hadn’t previously considered.</p>
<p>What if no one from your school has ever applied to the college you’re applying to? How would they look at you then (considering you’re in a rigorous AP/IB program)?</p>
<p>as far as an “explanation needed?”
Would a grade drop of a full letter for every course 2nd qtr frosh yr (which affects semester) due to eye injury/serious ulcer on eye needing lots of meds, a specialist etc for weeks be worth it–or will that pass as a freshman thing…and no explanation nec?</p>
<p>And do the school profiles colleges see include grade scale?
meaning 92 is an A minus
83 is a B minus
74 is a C minus </p>
<p>not only teachers, curriculum, owrkload etc vary–but also scale …
clear as mud?</p>
<p>When I first started in admissions more than 20 years ago, homeschooling was not nearly as popular as it is now, and many admisison officials really flew by the seat of their pants when evaluating homeschooled candidates (assuming that they would consider them in the first place, which wasn’t always the case).</p>
<p>Now, however, many colleges routinely admit homeschooled students and also include a supplement for them as part of the application process. The Common Application has a supplement for homeschooled students, too.</p>
<p>Even so, it can be difficult for admission officials–especially at the most selective colleges–to tell how a homeschooled student, whose grades have been awarded by Mom or Dad, will stack up against candidates from more traditional backgrounds.</p>
<p>Typically, test scores play an even greater role in these situations than they do for traditional applicants, and this includes AP scores as well. When I work with students who are aiming for the “elite” schools and who are also homeschooled, I encourage them to tackle AP exams prior to their senior year so that they will have some objective data beyond SAT or ACT results to send to colleges. I also recommend that they take a couple classes outside of their home … e.g., at a local community college … or via a reputable online program.</p>
<p>But certainly applicants without AP results, or community college or distance-learning credits are not out of luck. I also always urge homeschooled students to supply colleges with as much information as they can about their curriculum.</p>
<p>Admission officials will scrutinize evidence that the applicant has followed a program that is roughly comparable to the same recommended classes that other applicants have undertaken. This usually includes four years of English, three or four years of math and social studies, and at least two of foreign language and lab science, preferably more, especially at the most selective institutions.</p>
<p>Admission officials are also eager to identify students who have pursued an academic passion in depth. If this passion is an uncommon one, so much the better. Homeschooled students often have more opportunity to explore unusual areas of interest than typical high school students do. Sometimes homeschooled students pursue their own independent research. </p>
<p>Decades ago, being homeschooled was so uncommon that homeschooled applicants stood out in the crowd just for this alone. But now that it’s become less rare, the homeschooled students who are the most successful in the college admissions process are often those who show admission officials–through their writing, their test scores, and their other activities, demonstrated interests, and accomplishments-- that they truly took advantage of the unique opportunities that this path has allowed.</p>
<p>And at some high schools, doing well in MORE classes works against you. Consider this example:</p>
<p>[adding lower-weighted classes to a perfect transcript containing higher-weighted classes reduces GPA compared to not taking the additional classes]:</p>
<p>Seems counterintuitive, eh? But it does happen. Some schools guard against penalizing ambitious students by limiting GPA calculation to the first five “solids”
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As explained in the other thread, that isn’t really a fix. The problem is the use of averaging. A more mathematical discussion is in this posting:</p>
<p>Which is better looked upon by admissions officers? A student who is in <many> clubs and extracurricular activities but is average in them, or a student who only did <one or=“” two=“”> and excelled (won awards, etc.)?</one></many></p>
<p>Sally - I have a question on how Admission people look at class rank. My son’s GPA was 2.9 and his rank was 174/201. (He is admitted to a couple of small LAC’s that are a good fit for him so it is not a pressing issue - just curious) I realize that a 2.9 is not the world’s best GPA, but will an Admissions person look at that and say “wow, he must really be in a tough high school” or will they just blow him off without any more thought? Thanks</p>
<p>Assuming that this is a college that uses a holistic evaluation process and doesn’t just go on numbers alone, then admission officials will look at the stats on the class profile to gauge the rigor of the school. Factors that go into this evaluation will include the number of AP or IB classes offered, the percentage of students who attend four-year colleges, the list of schools they attend, average SAT and AP scores, etc. In addition, the admission officials may also have first-hand knowledge of the school and its standards. </p>
<p>The admission folks will also scrutinize your son’s 2.9 to see when and where he got his lowest grades. It will work in his favor if his worst grades were in freshman or sophomore year and/or in subjects that they consider either least consequential (e.g, Yearbook) or most demanding (e.g., Calculus). </p>
<p>Even so, colleges do like to boast about how many of their students were in the top decile of the class, or the top quarter, top half, etc. Thus, it can work against your son to be down in the bottom quarter, regardless of how competitive his school is and where his worst grades were earned. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Much of the time this process does have a way of working out. I know students who were in similar situations who went on to thrive at such colleges and then had a range of grad-school options and job choices beyond.</p>
<p>To me, precious little is helpful to a college admissions officer trying to differentiate between the caliber of one high school versus another. If they had a listing of the last class and where they went to each college (and the number at each) that would be helpful. If they had a composite list of the last few classes and the number of kids at each college, that might be helpful, but just a list of schools that that school sends kids to isn’t very helpful. Sure, G.P.A. can be helpful info for schools that don’t rank, but not much beyond that. If you think you’re getting info such as whether the school was a gold or silver star honored school or some other ranking of the school (such as honored as the top school in the state) forget it, that doesn’t seem to be permitted. Sure APs offered is shown but I highly doubt that is the difference between most schools - unfortunately average scores on AP exams is not provided just the number of kids taking AP and the total number of tests taken. </p>
<p>So the biggest thing on the sheet appears to be the SAT I and II average scores.</p>
<p>Thanks, ctyankee. Very interesting. Is this a fairly standard report for a HS to publish ?
I found it amusing that the school ‘does not rank’, but shows a gpa histogram ;-)</p>