How do alot of the paid programs work?

Graduate School
1

<p>I'm not trying to give a life story here, but my girlfriend and I are looking into both going on to grad school, and we would like to be married by then.</p>

<p>I plan to be licensed to teach high school in Social Science and a gpa around 3.6... she is the same in English and will have her masters with a gpa around 3.85.</p>

<p>Orginally we had discussed doing our grad work part time and teaching high school full time. However, would we be better off if say she could get a paid program and teach a course or two there and do it full time? I'm unaware if they just pay for your courses or do you get a stipend and what would that normally be like?</p>

<p>Also-- with our programs and gpa, what would be a school to look at? We've been looking into something like U. of Delaware or UMD since they seem feasable for both of us to get into and have both of our programs.</p>

<p>Any advice?</p>

2

<p>i REALLY want to know too.</p>

3

<p>i believe that if you work in nyc public schools they will fund your masters degree (i know a few people who are doing this)</p>

4

<p>What field are you both looking to do your grad work in? Education generally lets you do it part time and teach full time during your program, but almost any other field demands that you devote yourselves full-time to the program. Also, most grad programs have opportunities for assistantships, etc., which offset costs, but education programs generally don't. Education grad work, actually, is pretty different from any other grad program in those respects. As was mentioned, some districts fund grad work for their teachers while they are teaching, but not all, and some only fund grad work in education programs.</p>

5

<p>I agree with DespSeekPhD that it is highly dependent on which program you are looking at. While this may not be entirely relevant, I can say that, for example, business administration doctoral programs tend to be among the most generously funded programs. Technical PhDs such as engineering or the sciences also tend to be strongly funded, as are Econ PhD's. Humanities and non-Econ social science PhD's tend to be less so, and Education graduate programs even less so.</p>

6

<p>Thanks alot.</p>

<p>She would like to get her ph.d. in compartive lit. and ultimatly teach at the college level. I'd like to atleast get my masters in polisci to be able to teach at community college.</p>

<p>I figured since we were both high school teachers by doing that we'd have a decent income and some teaching experiance by the time we finished our programs.</p>

7

<p>Check both those programs - again, many do not allow you to work on them part-time. As far as poli sci is concerned, personally I'd apply for PhD programs, as that's your best chance of funding, and if you choose to exit the program after you have your MA, that's fine, and if you choose to stay on for your PhD, you don't need to go through the funding and application nightmare again (be sure your program awards an MA along the way). If both of you get funded grad spots, you should be OK for money. Be aware that doing a part-time PhD program and working (esp teaching) full-time is pretty tough - I taught for 5 years and I can't imagine doing both. PhDs are pretty demanding, and teaching is draining (I taught social science, too).</p>

8

<p>I agree--it would be very difficult to teach high school and do a part-time PhD (though not an EdD, where part-timers are quite common). In addition to the time demands--PhDs in the humanities and social sciences take around 7 years for people doing them full time--I can't imagine that any graduate program would fund a part-time PhD student. Some programs, in fact, forbid you from working a certain amount of hours outside of school, thereby effectively requiring you to enroll full time, at least until you are at the dissertation stage. Whether they actually check and regulate that is another matter.</p>

<p>With regard to the money, it depends where you are--the very top programs in comp literature and political science give their students stipends in the low to mid-20k range (usually adjusted for cost of living: Columbia and Harvard give more than Cornell because New York and Boston are more expensive than Ithaca), but the vast majority of PhD programs in the humanities and social sciences give less, sometimes as low as even 10-12k/year. </p>

<p>As far as where to apply, it depends in part on what kind of teaching job your partner is ultimately looking for, as your plans to teach at a community college allow for some flexibility. If she wants to teach at a major research university or liberal arts school, she really needs to be applying to the top tier programs. If she's not as concerned about teaching at those schools, she's got a wider range of options.</p>

9

<p>after i finish chem engr. undergrad,i want to pursue a math graduate degree.Are there any engineering firms that allow you to work AND go to grad school? If so, how does this work out?</p>

10

<p>
[QUOTE]
As far as poli sci is concerned, personally I'd apply for PhD programs, as that's your best chance of funding, and if you choose to exit the program after you have your MA, that's fine, and if you choose to stay on for your PhD, you don't need to go through the funding and application nightmare again (be sure your program awards an MA along the way).

[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree with this suggestion. Applying for Ph.D. programs when you don't intend to finish is dishonest abuse of the system -- especially in a highly competitive field like political science, where you would be taking a spot (and funding) from other applicants who really want to earn a Ph.D.</p>

<p>Ph.D. programs provide generous stipends for a reason -- candidates spend 5+ years working on their degrees, often without other income, and the stipend compensates for this sacrifice. A masters degree only takes about two years, so these students have less loan debt, and they can get real jobs (with real income) much sooner. That's why Ph.D. students rightly get more funding -- they need it more than the MA students. It's unfortunate that most MA programs are not funded, but that doesn't mean that you are justified in taking money from a Ph.D. program.</p>

<p>If you decide that you want to get a Ph.D. then by all means, apply for well-funded programs. But if you only want a masters, apply to MA programs. If they don't give you enough money, you can apply for outside funding -- scholarships, student loans, etc.</p>

<p>I'm not criticizing those who intend to get a Ph.D. but end up dropping out after the MA -- as long as they honestly intended to get a Ph.D. when they first applied. But it's wrong to lie about your intentions, especially when you would be taking opportunity and resources from others.</p>

11

<p>False Alarm, I would say that if anybody is to be blamed for this, it is the doctoral programs themselves. They are the ones who determine who gets funding and who doesn't. And the truth is, any time you provide funding as an incentive, you are going to get people who are only interested in the funding and therefore see it as a stepping stone. It is the jobs of these programs to then determine who they should fund, and if they choose to fund the wrong students, then you shouldn't blame the students, you should blame the program. </p>

<p>As a case in point, there are doctoral students who are not spending much effort in finishing neither the PhD nor the master's degree. In fact, they don't really care about getting a degree at all. The reason why they want to continue in the program is they want is to do more networking, and to look for an idea that they want to commercialize as a startup company. This is especially prevalent in PhD programs in engineering, and to some extent in business administration. For example, the Yahoo founders, Jerry Yang and David Filo, were PhD engineering students at Stanford who had gotten bored with their research and thus, in their spare time, created the web directory that would be known as Yahoo. They have freely admitted that they spend their time working on Yahoo because they were trying to do everything but work on their research. A lot of successful tech companies were developed by bored doctoral students who became no longer interested in their research and are thus not seriously pursuing their PhD...but continue to take the stipend money anyway. </p>

<p>I would also say that if you apply to a doctoral program and don't get in (or do get in, but don't get funded), then you shouldn't blame the students who did get funded, even if they are not seriously trying to pursue their PhD. Instead, you should blame yourself. For whatever reason, the program determined that you weren't good enough to merit admission or merit funding, and that the other student was better. Hence, you should be looking at yourself and determining what you need to do to get better so that you are worthy of funding or admission. Those other students didn't "take" your opportunity or resources, as it was never yours to begin with. Nobody is entitled to PhD admissions or to PhD funding. If a program decides to admit somebody else but not you, or funds somebody else but not you, then that basically means that you weren't good enough.</p>

12

<p>I would also like to point out that the OP said he was going to get AT LEAST an MA, indicating that he may go on for a PhD. At that point, he's not lying, he's deciding at some point whether he should/should not continue, which lots of PhDs with the best intentions do at some point. Why should he go to an MA program and then go through admissions again? If the OP really wants to teach community college, you can do it with an MA only, but you're really encouraged to get a PhD, and to get tenure you generally need a PhD. So it's not being dishonest, it fits with his career goals.</p>

13

<p>
[QUOTE]
Those other students didn't "take" your opportunity or resources, as it was never yours to begin with. Nobody is entitled to PhD admissions or to PhD funding.

[/QUOTE]
I was accepted to a strong Ph.D. program with great funding. I am not bitter about anything, and I don't think of resources as rightfully "mine" -- but I do believe the funding rightfully belongs to students who intend to finish the program, whoever they may be. I care about my program, and I don't want students to hurt my department by taking advantage of the funding and then dropping out. If this happened often, it would hurt our reputation and our rankings.</p>

<p>Sure, the schools are responsible for determining who is the best candidate -- but they use the information that applicants provide. When you write, "My goal is to get a Ph.D..." they have no way to verify that you're being truthful. If an applicant actually wrote, "I definitely want an MA, and I might stick around for the Ph.D." -- that would be honest, and it would allow the school to decide based on true information. But I doubt anyone writes this since everyone knows that adcoms want serious students who intend to finish. So when everyone claims that they intend to finish, the schools cannot be blamed for admitting those with ulterior motives.

[QUOTE]
I would also say that if you apply to a doctoral program and don't get in (or do get in, but don't get funded), then you shouldn't blame the students who did get funded, even if they are not seriously trying to pursue their PhD. Instead, you should blame yourself. For whatever reason, the program determined that you weren't good enough to merit admission or merit funding, and that the other student was better.

[/QUOTE]
Again, this doesn't apply to me, but in this hypothetical situation, the other student did not get in because he was "better." He got in because HE LIED about his intentions. He appeared to be the best applicant on paper, but he was really one of the worst applicants because he plans to drop out. If he had been honest in his personal statement, at least one student would have received an offer (whoever was first on the waiting list).</p>

<p>Graduate education is a tremendous privilege. If you get into a Ph.D. program with funding, you are consuming limited resources. You have been granted an opportunity that many people will never have. And if you lied to get that opportunity, you are "taking" funding from others, because you wouldn't have funding if you had been honest about your intentions.</p>

<p>Yes, Ph.D. funding attracts those who abuse it -- but that doesn't make it okay. Just because you know engineering students who take advantage of their stipends doesn't mean we should advise everyone to just lie about their intentions. Lying hurts Ph.D. programs, and it hurts the applicants who would otherwise have those spots.</p>

14

<p>And again, as a person who wants to teach college, even community college, he's likely going to want a PhD. I understand being upset with people who have absolutely no intention of going on - yes, that's dishonest. But if he thinks he is likely going to go on, I don't see anything wrong with it. Even a person with every intention of finishing the PhD can't guarantee they won't drop out after the MA, and I doubt they're more likely to finish than someone in the OP's position whose intended career path will benefit from a PhD. So in this particular case, which is all I'm looking at, I don't see anything wrong with the OP applying to PhD programs. If the OP wants, he can teach community college part-time while working on his dissertation, if finances are an issue - he certainly wouldn't be the first to do so.</p>

15

<p>Two side questions</p>

<p>I've looked at different schools, when they say they pay for your tution, would that include room and board or is that the point of the stipend? Simply because I was looking at apartments in the UNC area and I don't see how it's feasable to pay for it with just 12k a year?</p>

<p>Also, anyone know the website that has the acceptance rates at different grad schools (someone told me about one but did not know the address, i've never seen it myself)</p>

<p>thanks</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
I was accepted to a strong Ph.D. program with great funding. I am not bitter about anything, and I don't think of resources as rightfully "mine" -- but I do believe the funding rightfully belongs to students who intend to finish the program, whoever they may be. I care about my program, and I don't want students to hurt my department by taking advantage of the funding and then dropping out. If this happened often, it would hurt our reputation and our rankings.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And that is then the responsibility of the program to figure out who should be funded and who shouldn't. If your program funds the 'wrong' students, then you should blame your program. Put the blame where it belongs. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Sure, the schools are responsible for determining who is the best candidate -- but they use the information that applicants provide. When you write, "My goal is to get a Ph.D..." they have no way to verify that you're being truthful. If an applicant actually wrote, "I definitely want an MA, and I might stick around for the Ph.D." -- that would be honest, and it would allow the school to decide based on true information. But I doubt anyone writes this since everyone knows that adcoms want serious students who intend to finish. So when everyone claims that they intend to finish, the schools cannot be blamed for admitting those with ulterior motives.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh come now. That's just being disingenuous. Look, the fact is, nobody is ever really 100% honest. This is especially so when it comes to admissions. The fact is, getting admitted to any competitive program has a lot to do with self-marketing. Cmpetitive applicants know that they have to highlight their strengths and be prepared to discuss how their skills mesh well with the program. It is then also the responsibility of the programs to figure out who is the most worthy of funding, given the fact that all candidates are trying to market themselves to the program. </p>

<p>Let me put it to you this way. Every car company is going to claim, in their advertising, that their car is fun to drive. Every beer company is going to claim that their beer is smooth and rich and tasty. So should I naively believe everything I hear? No, of course not. It is my job as a responsible consumer to figure out what the truth really is. If I believe what all of the marketing tells me, then I have basically abdicated my job as a responsible consumer, and I have nobody to blame but myself. </p>

<p>Hence, the way that programs ought to figure things out is by bringing in candidates for interviews and trying to judge enthusiasm. Or (maybe even better) by calling up the candidates's references and attempting to ascertain interest on the part of the candidate. That's how a program is supposed to perform its due diligence. If the program administrators doesn't do that, then they have nobody to blame but themselves. You don't do your homework, and bad things happen. </p>

<p>Besides, things work the other way as well. Many programs aren't exactly entirely forthcoming with the truth about themselves either when it comes to candidates. I know many doctoral students who have frankly said that they if they knew back then what they know now about their programs, they would have gone somewhere else, and that's usually because they discovered something bad along the way in their studies that their program didn't want them to know about before they agreed to come. So it works both ways. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Again, this doesn't apply to me, but in this hypothetical situation, the other student did not get in because he was "better." He got in because HE LIED about his intentions. He appeared to be the best applicant on paper, but he was really one of the worst applicants because he plans to drop out. If he had been honest in his personal statement, at least one student would have received an offer (whoever was first on the waiting list).</p>

<p>Graduate education is a tremendous privilege. If you get into a Ph.D. program with funding, you are consuming limited resources. You have been granted an opportunity that many people will never have. And if you lied to get that opportunity, you are "taking" funding from others, because you wouldn't have funding if you had been honest about your intentions.</p>

<p>Yes, Ph.D. funding attracts those who abuse it -- but that doesn't make it okay. Just because you know engineering students who take advantage of their stipends doesn't mean we should advise everyone to just lie about their intentions. Lying hurts Ph.D. programs, and it hurts the applicants who would otherwise have those spots.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look, I'm not saying that I support lying. What I am saying is that programs ought to realize the nature of the incentives they are laying forth and hence need to be careful about how they dole out those incentives. I don't support spammers hawking a bunch of get-rich schemes to me, like opening my bank account to a bunch of supposed Nigerian exiles who supposedly want to give me millions of dollars for free, but that doesn't mean that I should abdicate my responsibility for being smart enough not to fall for such schemes. </p>

<p>My take on the situation is simple. Programs decide who to fund. If they decide to fund somebody who you don't think deserves the funding, you should take it up with the program. Don't blame the student.</p>

17

<p>To the OP - No room and board - that's the stipend. If you only get 12K a year in your stipend, you could take out extra loans. Or, if your girlfriend also gets a stipend, then you'll probably have enough combined. Check to see if the uni offers subsidized housing - most do. Ask specifically about graduate housing - there are a host of reasons why you don't want to live in the same building with undergrads.</p>

18

<p>Okay, everyone's advice has been pretty killer. But now I have to put all my nuts into one basket and decide what to do.</p>

<p>I can either major in history so that I can teach high school, or major in polisci, and atleast go on to get my masters to teach comm college.</p>

<p>My worry is, I won't get into any MA/Ph.D. programs and find myself without the ability to teach anywhere. I'm also concerned I will get into an MA program with no form of aid and be just as screwed.</p>

<p>How challanging is it to get into some sort of program? I'm not talking top 20 or even top tier, and what are some good ideas for general safety schools?</p>

<p>Also, how do loans work out as far as taking them out to pay for housing and food, i'm concerned with the two of us making $24,000 we'll be dead in the water?</p>

<p>One more question, how hard are fellowships to get? Like I had said at the start, my girlfriend is the the brains with her higher gpa, but I like to think the two of us are in a decent enough position to get into a mid grade school</p>

<p>I'm sorry if these questions kinda low, I'm first generation college student so there is not alot of people around here with a deep well of knowledge for me to ask these types of questions to. I plan to ask an advisor at school, but haven't really figured out what it is I want to say.</p>

<p>thanks so much for the insight so far.</p>

19

<p>When you say "major in..." what exactly do you mean? Do you have your BA yet? If so, what are you majoring in currently? You don't have to go to grad school to teach high school, of course, but an MA will boost your starting salary. If you're looking at what to major in for your MA, either history or poli sci, you really have to go with what you are most passionate about. Read about grad level classes in each subject at the colleges you are interested. The ones you are drawn to are in the major you want. Either way, you can teach either subject at the CC level with an MA.</p>

<p>MA programs aren't as hard to get into as PhD, so you may want to apply for a few of each, depending on your competitiveness. What was your undergrad GPA? GRE scores? Research experience? Can you get good recs? All these come into play.</p>

<p>Stafford loans for grad students max at $18,500/year per student. $10,500 is subsidized, which means you have to qualify for need based aid. $8000 is unsubsidized, which means you can take out whatever you want. Most people that take out Staffords use them for housing, food, etc.</p>

<p>Fellowships are pretty competitive. I assume you're planning on applying for the 2007-2008 school year, as pretty much all admissions for grad school are closed now. Check the dates for submission of materials and submit as early as you can! Do not miss the deadline! You can look at the list of assistantships and fellowships a school has, and that will give you and idea of how likely you are to get something. The more available, the better your chances (of course, depending on how many students they take on). Also, if you can get and idea of the general stats (GRE, GPA) of the students, and you are on the high end, you have a good shot at getting aid.</p>