<p>I just wanted to follow up briefly on the question I raised in the OP. I spoke to the GC tonite and he assured me that the graduates my son's high school do very well compared to graduates of other schools, especially at the higher levels. We didn't get into a discussion of why that is; I'm content to take his word for it and let it drop there.</p>
<p>It probably won't make any difference at all. Maybe two safety schools instead of three.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for suggestions and support.</p>
<p>My S goes to a private catholic high school. They limit the number of kids in the highest level classes to 25, based upon testing that takes place in 8th grade. In order to become eligible for that class, someone has to drop out and the child who wants to get into the class has to have a 98. By the time the class is eligible for college applications (My S is in 10th grade only 25 out of 150+ will have taken AP classes. The problem is that the school offers AP classes, but only the school limits the number of students. Will colleges know about this? My S will likely only be able to take 2 AP classes, even though 10+ are offered. He has high 90s in his classes, but no one dropped out of the highest level class and he was not at the 98 mark. How will colleges perceive his inability to take AP classes?</p>
<p>LaurentheMom brings up a valid point. Sometimes going to a school with any high level classes - which you can't get into - can be detrimental. That 3rd standard deviation math class that the math department head will only allow 6 asians is too precious to be helpful.</p>
<p>Our local public sent standard registration materials home; parents overwhelmingly returned them with indications that they wanted their children in AP classes. School advised parents that there were insufficient seats - so why not change some regular classes to be at the AP level? - because the other teachers did not have the chops to teach at that level! - 1/3 of the parents walked out to the local private prep.</p>
<p>At my son's school, which as I mentioned above, does very well with college placement, students are limited to two AP classes junior and senior year. That's all. The GC says that they just tell the colleges what the limit is and it's been OK with them. They don't hold it against the student. So I think we're getting the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>TXArtemis; Just wanted to congratulate you on such excellent and informative posts! :) :)</p>
<p>I received an email from rice last year november (2008) that they have recieved my questbridge application and said that they extended the time for me to turn in my transcripts,reccomendations, and rice supplement forms for early decision on november 15,2008. does this means that i was a finalist. does this also mean that rice university was very interested in me and wanted me to apply to their college. later on, they sent me an email that i did not specify whether i was a early decision or regulare decision and so they put me as a regular decision applicant. what does this mean. please help me!!! very important. I would appreciate it very much. thankyou!!!</p>
<p>I am kind of in the same position as LaurenTheMom's S. I go to a magnet school where we can't take as many APs as other people. It is so confusing that I won't go into it much, just that other students could take about 3 or so more APs then me, even though I want to take those APs! I know it probably won't affect me too much if my GC explains it but I still wish I could have the opportunity to learn the things taught in those classes.</p>
<p>I am kind of in your position. I go to a town on the border of a "not so nice" city. My schoool is probably as diverse as you can get. However, that is probably a god thing, as it prepares a student for the real world. Some go to schools that are not rated as high, but if your son is smart and tries hard, he will do fine. I know people at my school who have got into wonderful colleges, like NYU, Brandeis, William and Mary, Brown, Harvard, Villanova, and more.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Can I say something like this: "I saw on Naviance that one of our students got into Princeton with a 3.6 and 2100. Do you mind if I ask if that's an athlete or a URM or is there some other kind of hook? .... The point is that if these kids don't have some hook then the colleges must LOVE this school, and we don't even need to think about safeties.
[/quote]
EVERY kid who gets into Princeton has some kind of "hook" -- it's NEVER a matter of "loving" the school. The school itself can be a factor in the equation -- and the college will look at factors such as GPA & test scores in the context of the school..... but there is still something special about the kid who got into Princeton that set him (or her) apart from others in the applicant pool.</p>
<p>Yes, that special something can be the fact that the kid is a 290-pound linebacker -- but it could be something else as well. One book that I would highly recommend is called Winning the College Admissions Game by Peter Van Buskirk. </p>
<p>It will really help you understand the complexity of the process of defining and looking at "hooks" -- plus it sheds a lot of light on what colleges are looking for. </p>
<p>I think you really are on the wrong track to be looking at numbers as a set of discrete factors, because the admissions process is not formulaic and you can never see the subjective factors like letters of recommendation & essays. I think those are VERY important because they potentially bring the applicant to life for the admissions committee.</p>
<p>You really already know the answers to your questions: that kid with the 3.6 GPA who got into Princeton had something else going for him (or her). But it doesn't matter what that something is, and you don't know what caused the GPA. Maybe the kid had some real struggles and problems in 9th grade, and then came around and got straight A's from mid-10th grade onward, brining up a 2.8 GPA to 3.6 by the time of college admissions -- so maybe there is a strong rising trend and a great story to tell. (Overcoming family adversity; learning disability; who knows?)</p>
<p>The point is -- you don't need to know Princeton-kid's story: what is important is Bird Rock Son's story. HE is going to have to figure out what that story is, how he's going to tell that story through his college applications, and which colleges are likely to be most appreciative of whatever that story is. And it may be that part of that "story" is that your son isn't a good match for the "reach" schools and really should focus somewhere else -- or maybe he is a perfect candidate for the top schools -- the point is, 3 years from now there is going to be a dot on a Naviance graph that represents your son's GPA & test scores and the colleges that admit him, but that dot is not going represent your son, because your kid is not a data point on a chart.</p>
<p>I do think that the fact that your son attends an inner-city magnet is a plus factor to colleges -- but only as part of the overall fabric of your son's academic life. Like any other factor, it can be a double-edged sword - it may help in some ways, but could also hurt - or simply not matter - depending on your son's individual profile and how he has responded to the experience. Since I don't know the school or your son I can't tell you what that would be -- but if, for example, some other kid attended a very diverse school but was very introverted & standoffish and did not participate in school groups or activities -- if the overall sense conveyed in some-other-kid's application was that he was studious but self-centered and no one really knew him all that well -- then it would be clear that some-other-kid didn't really bring anything more to the table simply because he attended a diverse school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
. I spoke to the GC tonite and he assured me that the graduates my son's high school do very well compared to graduates of other schools, especially at the higher levels.
[/quote]
By "higher levels" do you mean in terms of admissions to Ivy-caliber schools?</p>
<p>My daughter attended a public magnet school, and I do think it helped, but I'm not sure how to quantify it. It helped because it made her stand out a little bit - she didn't just come from typical-ordinary-high school but she came from someplace-intriguing -- so its not a hook so much as a slight attention grabber. </p>
<p>It also helped because the magnet school had a different curriculum. In her case, it was an arts magnet where the kids had academic classes in the morning, arts classes in the afternoon -- and that simply is a different picture than the typical kid who has the same set of classes. Plus, of course, every kid at the arts magnet has a talent, and the school provides a way for them to highlight that talent to colleges. </p>
<p>But my kid also did things that took her outside and beyond her school and its offerings... and that helped too. And one of the reason that the magnet school might have a different college admissions profile than other local high schools is simply that, by definition, it attracts highly motivated kids who are attracted to whatever the magnet offers. So, for example, at my daughter's arts magnet, you would expect those kids do do well for college admissions at schools where arts are highly valued -- but those same individual kids would probably do well on admissions to the same schools even if they had attended different schools and pursued the same arts as an EC rather than built into the curriculum. (For me, the great benefit of the arts school was that I didn't have to pay out nearly as much in private dance studio fees any more). </p>
<p>And if you looked at it by a different measure, then maybe the magnet school isn't all that special. For example, if you were to look at my daughter's arts magnet and ask how many kids end up in top engineering programs -- like Cal Tech or MIT--- well, I think it's probably fair to say "never" and "not a chance". (The school's math and science offerings are dismal). So part of the equation is looking at what type of students the magnet attracts in the first place, and what type of schools they end up in.</p>
<p>Mt kids have been at an acaddemic magnet program at an urban high school for the last ten years (year eleven, kid #4 now). Our magnet kids do very well in the public universities -- we have high numbers who get into the very top public universities. We also have a few kids who get into elite schools every year. They are usually the top ten to fifteen kids in their class and they are always very bright and very accomplished and took a lot of AP courses and so forth. In other words, they would be strong candidates in any environment. If colleges know a program well and are getting good kids from that program, they are more likely to want kids from that program -- more than the fact of where the program is located. One of my kids got into YPS from this school and I did wonder at the time if the general make-up of the school was a factor, but I don't think so because here's the thing: we have a lot of kids at our school who would excel at the nearby top private school, but our numbers are nowhere near theirs for getting into elite private schools. And I think our acceptance rates are about the same as the top public schools in the same district that are in more affluent parts of town.</p>
<p>
[quote]
By "higher levels" do you mean in terms of admissions to Ivy-caliber schools?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, exactly what I meant.</p>
<p>Your later points may be on target. I don't know the kids well enough to know the whole story, especially not the ones who graduated in 2007 and 2008, and whose numbers are now on Naviance. But it could easily be that these kids have something special that the adcoms like. I could certainly see how they would appear a lot more interesting than the typical highly competitive high school graduate. And if the school now has a reputation then all the graduates may benefit a little.</p>
<p>"But it could easily be that these kids have something special that the adcoms like. I could certainly see how they would appear a lot more interesting than the typical highly competitive high school graduate. And if the school now has a reputation then all the graduates may benefit a little. "</p>
<p>Yea use naviance to target specific schools, but use the high school's released statistics(usually on the guidance online site). Compare average sats to the rest of the state and see what the best sat IIs are for that school. The top 3 average sat II for the school should be 700+ if you want to have a good chance for Ivies. There should also be an AP section which says how many students took the tests, % who got over a 3, and how many received awards(National Ap scholar, ap scholar with distinction, etc)</p>
<p>If you get a naviance code from the guidance counselor i believe you can view more more things about the students who got in to each college</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean by 'asset or detriment' when in the next line you refer to your belief that more students getting free lunch is better and less graduates going onto college is better. First of all, what is far more important about the school is what your son did there. School is only important as context: if your son went to a school that offered no AP classes, he can't be expected to take AP classes, correct? Or if he goes to a school where he has a 3.6 GPA but the average GPA is a 4.0, there's crazy grade inflation and he apparently wasn't doing that well.</p>
<p>School is a context for his achievement; it's not supposed to be a proving ground for how much he's overcome. If most of the students in his school get free lunch but you come from an upper-middle-class background, that will be evident in your application too.</p>
<p>Your question is offensive, quite frankly, and it's not really useful. You only saw that one student had a 3.6 and a 2100, and automatically assumed that he must be an athlete or an URM. You haven't even seen the rest of the application -- the kid might have done three years of research with a professor, or written an excellent application essay, or had some other kind of talent. Maybe that 3.6 is a 2.7 freshman year and a 4.2 the last two because he had a death in the family his freshman year, or maybe the 2100 was because he got sick at the test site. Grades and SAT scores are only two components of a total application package, and they say VERY little about a student without some context.</p>
<p>I think it's inappropriate and not useful to ask that kind of question. It's far more useful to ask for aggregates. Where do students generally go after they attend this high school? What are the average stats of accepted students to elite schools from here? What kind of other resources are their for admissions?</p>
<p>Personally I went to a magnet school for the past 4 years. My conclusion can be sum up to be:</p>
<ol>
<li>If you want the education and the motivation factor, a magnet school is better (because it forces the student to work harder)</li>
<li>If your goal is to get into the best college/universities, stick with the regular HS. College don't care about what school you go to (relative to other factors). After all, GPA, ECs, and more are the main factors.</li>
</ol>
<p>Having gone through the college admissions process twice, I am convinced that the colleges do look at the context of the studen't high school to measure his/her achievements. However, it is critical that the admissions personnel feel that the student would succeed in their school. No matter how "hard luck" the case, they need to see evidence that they're not setting up the student for failure.</p>
<p>In our area, the public schools do have a slight edge, based on the results of the last few years. It is ironic, because one of the major reasons parents in our area send their kids to private schools is to give them an advantage in college admissions. Yet, if they compared the actual college results for the excellent students they would see that the diverse public schools do a little better. I think average students do better at our private schools, because the private schools have more academic support for the stuggling or easily distracted student.</p>