<p>If by answering questions, you mean answer questions that weren’t asked or avoid answering by sidestepping the issue altogether, yeah, you’ve done it about three times now. If by answering questions you mean actually giving an answer that directly addresses the issue, then no, you haven’t done it once.</p>
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<p>But why have them if you can just do it the Balderas way? Why go through the process of filing the I-20, completing the application, going through any and all required interviews, and obtaining a passport when you can just check “Other citizenship” and leave the “Visa type” blank? If you think it’s alright to just leave the “Visa type” line blank, then there really is NO POINT for a student visa. Its supposed purpose, “to give students overseas an opportunity to come here to study,” is already served by the Balderas method, which does not require filing the I-20, does not require any interviews, and does not require a passport. You just have to stay under the radar since you’re in the country illegally, but if bovertine represents even a fraction of Americans, then it doesn’t seem like it’s hard to do so.</p>
<p>“So they knowingly admit illegal aliens? Then what the hell is the point of having student visas?”</p>
<p>To help the government keep track of who is entering the country, and to authorize entry and travel under certain circumstances. Balderas was already here, and as the OP illustrates, is running into trouble without a visa.</p>
<p>“why have them if you can just do it the Balderas way?”</p>
<p>You mean being brought to the U.S. as a small child? That’s the Balderas way. It’s pretty difficult for an overseas teenager to manage that. It’s also very risky (observe the OP). No one would choose to be here illegally if they had a legal option, and anyone who gets admitted to Harvard from overseas is going to have a legal option (student visa). But if you’re already here because your parents brought you, you can’t get a student visa the way other Mexican citizens can. You’re in limbo.</p>
Why wouldn’t they be able to? The person’s still a citizen of Mexico. How would this be any different from any other international student other than perhaps the family doesn’t want to fill out some paperwork honestly for fear of being caught and deported?</p>
<p>Another point to ponder - if people think this person should be treated specially by the government (I’m not talking about Harvard) despite being here illegally because they were accepted to Harvard, what about if the person was accepted to UVA, or Boise State, or DeVry, or a CC, or didn’t apply for college at all? Does it make a difference in your mind and if so where is the line drawn? The federal government already considers the educational status, skill capability, etc. when making some of the immigration decisions but of course one would need to follow the legal path to immigration for that decision to be made.</p>
<p>I think this is what bothers me most…those that lie–either by commission or omission–and then don’t have any kind of consequence—rather are allowed to continue…</p>
<p>makes the whole legal visa and laws thing a farce…</p>
<p>There are legal authorities to enforce these laws–and colleges/schools/employers SHOULD be collecting this ID information … and know who is who…why wouldn’t a student give either a legal visa or social security number?</p>
<p>“Why wouldn’t they be able to? The person’s still a citizen of Mexico. How would this be any different from any other international student other than perhaps the family doesn’t want to fill out some paperwork honestly for fear of being caught and deported?”</p>
<p>Because student visas are not available to those already living in the U.S., whether legally or illegally. Applicants for student visas must demonstrate that they “Have a residence abroad, with no immediate intention of abandoning that residence.” [Student</a> Visas](<a href=“404 - Page Not Found”>404 - Page Not Found) This is a threshold, eligibility requirement.</p>
<p>I think ICE has made clear, by their actions in the case and the Jessica Colotyl case, that it doesn’t matter what school the student is attending. But for their family circumstance, they likely would have been granted student visas, their schools are willing to vouch for them, and, frankly, ICE has bigger fish to fry. They seem to have their hands full with actual criminals and are content to allow college students to work it out with their schools. What happens after they graduate remains to be seen, but passage of an immigration law that would allow them to achieve citizenship, such as the Dream Act, may be their salvation. Although I’m sure to be flamed for this, I cannot imagine being deported to a country where I hadn’t lived for virtually my whole life and had no close relation to. These kids are truly caught in the middle of a nightmare they didn’t ask for and have my empathy.</p>
<p>Balderas and even Colotl certainly deserve at least some empathy, but the Dream Act would do nothing but encourage further illegal immigration. “Actual” criminals or not, they were caught, and they should’ve been or should be deported as soon as possible.</p>
<p>Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion…please respect that others are entitled to take a different view. I doubt the Dream Act would hurt more than help and believe that the best ways to discourage illegal immigration are through better border controls. That requires devoting many more resources to the task than are presently available. Increased support for developing nations, such as concrete support for educational and employment opportunities, also reduces the “need” for illegal immigration. Remember, survival is a primary instinct and many illegal immigrants are here as a matter of survival…at least, that has been my experience. Until the conditions they can live under in their home countries improve, I suspect that is not going to change. Perhaps we should all ask ourselves if we would allow our daughters to be raped and sold into prostitution, our sons to be killed, and our land to be taken, with no end in sight, and still refuse to participate in “illegal” immigration…it’s tough for me to judge them, as I have not walked in their shoes.</p>
<p>I used no second-person language in my post #48; I was not disrespecting your being entitled to your opinions.</p>
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<p>The two counteract each other. On the one hand, better border controls would–at least on paper–decrease illegal immigration. On the other hand, however, the Dream Act basically says, “You did something wrong, but if you do this, all is forgiven,” which would increase illegal immigration since it provides a very attractive benefit to illegal immigrants’ children.</p>
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<p>So you’re saying we should just have open borders, then?</p>
<p>No, the Dream Act would simply be a way for them to rehabilitate their standing for those who truly wish to become law-abiding, contributing citizens. And no, I don’t support open borders either although I have worked with recent immigrants and so perhaps have more understanding of the intolerable situations human beings can find themselves in, through no real fault of their own. The overall tone of your posts on this thread is very combative to those who are trying to voice any differing opinions or questions and, to my view, is somewhat inappropriate on this forum. Perhaps you should post on the political fourm.</p>
<p>Hanna - thanks for that info on the student visas. So basically the federal government wants to make sure the students will come here to be educated and then return to their country rather than use it as a vehicle to stay here. </p>
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Most of the illegals are coming here for economic reasons rather than persecution reasons and the federal government has different rules of the two (once they officially recognize it). I also recognize that it’s not the federal government who put these kids in this position - it’s the parents. The parents knowingly broke the law to come here and it has consequences and that will include consequences for their kids. They should consider that more strongly before they decide to come here.</p>
<p>The same outcome is being described but with different wording. What is “rehabilitate…standing” if not a euphemism for amnesty? The DREAM Act is truly perverse in that it rewards illegal immigration: come to the U.S. with your child, evade authorities until your child is of college or military age, send your child to college or the military, and see your child become a U.S. citizen upon completion of college or military service. Thus, illegal aliens are REWARDED for breaking immigration law. Do that, and we’ll simply have more illegal immigration, not less.</p>
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<p>Because I disagree with you, I am therefore “very combative”? It ought to be noted that I use far, far less second-person language than the accuser does.</p>
<p>Edit</p>
<p>I’m the son of two immigrants from mainland China. Both my parents had to go through the process of obtaining permanent residency and finally citizenship. I had already voted in a Presidential Election by the time both my parents became naturalized citizens. Thus, on a personal level, to reward illegal aliens’ behavior with citizenship is just a slap in the face to both my parents.</p>
<p>I take a radical and hardline view on immigration. I believe there should be unlimited legal immigration (eg. no quotas on H1Bs), even though that could potentially “hurt” my employment prospects. At the same time, however, I don’t believe in coddling illegal immigrants and rewarding them for flouting immigration law.</p>
<p>Fabrizio, I understand your position but I think we’re looking at the Dream Act from different perspectives. As a native-born American, I look at it from the society viewpoint and with an understanding of our historical track record with these types of programs. Some of the most shameful periods in our history have occurred when we have catalogued and shunned people as a way to “protect” ourselves…it’s always been a colossal failure. What is it costing us, as a society, to keep people in limbo or to detain/deport them if they’ve been here for decades and have otherwise been productive, law-abiding members of our communities? It’s not only the budget dollars that would have to be allocated to this, but also that we would lose the potential value of their contributions. Isn’t it better for all of us to be able to embrace them as productive, tax-paying, property and business owners and to concentrate our efforts on tracking and deporting those who would not be eligible for citizenship because of other criminal acts or failure to meet some other criteria (ie. employment/education)? I think it’s a far more practical and workable solution to the problem.</p>
<p>There’s justice–no papers, deport them. It’s only fair and if you do otherwise, you’ll only encourage more illegal immigration. </p>
<p>There’s mercy–these kids were brought here by parents without so much as a “by your leave,” many of them have only known life in the US, and deporting them to a country which is unknown to them is cruel. </p>
<p>There’s practicality–we’ve already spent oodles of $$ educating them, these college bound ambitious kids are the cream of the crop intellectually and and could really contribute to our society as fully integrated citizens. </p>
<p>I think the Dream Act tries to balance all of the issues.</p>
<p>“So basically the federal government wants to make sure the students will come here to be educated and then return to their country rather than use it as a vehicle to stay here.”</p>
<p>Right. A student visa is a non-immigrant visa. If an international student on a student visa wants to stay in the U.S. after graduation, there are ways to apply for immigrant status. But a student visa is never available to a U.S. resident, and it cannot confer the right to work or to stay in the U.S. indefinitely.</p>
<p>“it provides a very attractive benefit to illegal immigrants’ children.”</p>
<p>I’m very skeptical that the DREAM act will have any discernible impact on illegal immigration, even if it passes and if it is widely publicized in the developing world (a big if). I don’t know if you’ve worked with any families of recent immigrants. People sneaking across the border with small children are concerned about immediate survival. They are looking for food and shoes for those kids. They just aren’t focused on what might happen ten years down the road.</p>
<p>“No papers” as in the illegal aliens must have some form of documentation (ie. “papers”) from their home country?</p>
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<p>Mercy is a very dangerous argument for advocating amnesty. We’ll never be able to stop illegal immigration if every kid’s sob story becomes the fault of “society” as opposed to the kids’ parents, and really, just about every illegal minor has a sob story. Is it cruel to deport them to a country “which is unknown to them”? Sure. Is it our fault? Hell no. The parents should’ve thought of that when they made their decision to illegally immigrate to the U.S.</p>
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<p>No doubt Balderas could do a lot of good to the United States. (Colotl, not so much.) But why are we so selfish as to deprive Mexico of an ambitious, cream of the crop student who is one of theirs? If he has the potential to “contribute to…society,” let him contribute to the country where he is a legal citizen, not the country where he is an illegal alien.</p>
<p>Despite my opposition to the DREAM Act, I would support it if and only if it required that illegal aliens serve six years in a branch of the Armed Forces not of their choosing and in a deployment not of their choosing and are discharged honorably.</p>