<p>*Quote:
Ridiculously expensive private colleges are ridiculously expensive. That’s why the vast majority of Americans don’t go to such schools. They go to state universities or community colleges. Anything else is a luxury that you can pay for. </p>
<p>This. No one “needs” to go to a private college. They “want” to go to a private college. The majority of poor kids aren’t “going to college for free” unless it is the local CC or perhaps a public school in certain states. *</p>
<p>Very true…Frankly, anyone who applies to a pricey private should go in with the EXPECTATION that you’ll be paying full price because attending is a LUXURY. IF the school deems that you qualify for need-based aid…it’s a GIFT…an undeserved gift. </p>
<p>I think if more people approached the college app process with an expectation that they will have to pay it all (unless they know for SURE that they will get ASSURED grants/merit money), then people wouldn’t be so shocked by what the college expects them to pay.</p>
<p>If I go to buy a pricey car, I expect to pay XXXXX dollars. If somehow during the process I find out that I’m going to get some “special deal” (an unknown rebate or upgrade or something), then it’s a gift. I don’t go to the pricey car lot and then act upset that I have to pay a lot for the car.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids: I agree with you but low income individuals can’t walk on the price car lot and get the car for free, which is what is happening here. I would have no problems and not squawk at all if we were all equal. But if the pricey car lot dealer is gonna give the Mercedes to someone just because they don’t have enough money to pay full price and turn around and charge the person who can take a loan,for the full price, just because that person has made sound economic decisions, and worked hard for years, and scimped and lived within their means, then thats not fair.</p>
<p>Let’s not beat around the bush here. If private universities didn’t offer need-based financial aid, their student bodies would be nothing but rich white kids.</p>
<p>That lack of socioeconomic and ethnic diversity is neither socially acceptable nor attractive to students and faculty, so the institutions offer aid in order to broaden the makeup of their student body.</p>
<p>By far the overall majority of such universities are still rich white kids.</p>
<p>By the way, is it fair that a kid born to low-income parents can’t even think about affording full-pay for a private college? How is it the kid’s fault that his parents are secretaries and cashiers, not stockbrokers and lawyers?</p>
<p>Looking at USNWR’s rankings, let’s see: on the LAC side, starting at #11 we have Claremont McKenna which does offer merit aid–and in fact a parent on the 2011 thread on the parent’s forum just found out that his son was awarded full tuition. Then we skip to Smith (#14), the USMA (#16), followed by the Naval Academy. Grinnell and Hamilton. Not sure about Colorado College, but Macalester offers merit aid, and so does Bryn Mawr. A friend’s daughter, an excellent but not superstar student, was just offered $15k a year merit there. That takes us to only #30. Go deeper on the list and a good student can certainly find merit opportunities. </p>
<p>On the university side we’ll ignore the big but highly competitive merit awards from Duke and UChicago. I think there is still some merit money to be had at Vandy and Emory; there most certainly is at USC. Rice and WUStL offer some big merit packages, though those are competitive–yet I know students who’ve won them. Not sure about Lehigh, but U Rochester most certainly offers merit money as does Case Western. It’s not merit money but students from middle-class families admitted to Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford benefit from extraordinarily generous need-based aid. </p>
<p>And I stopped at #50 on each list. Just below that on the university side are GWU, Tulane, Syracuse, Boston U, Fordham…the list goes on and on. Go down to #75 and you’ll see even more opportunities for private schools that offer merit aid. </p>
<p>So yes, it’ll still be full-pay at over $50k/year for Columbia and Amherst. That doesn’t mean that the middle class is going to be totally shut out of top 50-75 privates for lack of funds.</p>
<p>It’s still a lot of money to pay - a 15K scholarship still leaves a good 25K left to pay on tuition alone plus housing that comes in at at least 10K, and often more.</p>
<p>The National Merit Scholarship is $2500, which at one time was a significant bite out of the college bill - now it’s nibble.</p>
<p>We could discuss this issue forever and the bottom line is that ‘we’ can’t change it. It is what it is…Que sera sera…</p>
<p>Just would like to see that everyone gets a little piece of the pie. I’m not saying not to help those less fortunate then myself but that I should be entitled to something too. I have worked just as hard as everyone else.</p>
<p>When someone gets it all for free because his/her parents are cashiers and I can’t send my kid to the same college because I, supposedly, have too much money then the system is broken.</p>
<p>It is shocking how much the prices have increased for college. I was a NSF and that $2500 pretty much covered tuition to a pricey private college. Now it doesn’t even pay 10% of the tuition. Books, computer and supplies maybe. The grants and loans available have not increase proportionally either. College has become something that more families are willing to borrow, save and scrimp to pay, and the price has gone as high as the market can bear. Higher for some schools who are being forced to “discount” the costs to the kids they most want. A few years ago, I marveled at he huge $30K+ scholarship my student was offered, and it was a real downer to realize that it still left a sizable tab to pay. </p>
<p>I don’t think private college should be getting public money. Those funds should be shifted to state schools and the quality of those schools should be built up so that they are our top universities. And they should be available at reasonable prices to everyone, but particularly state residents. California has the infrastructure in place that I think is really the way we should go. Va, Michigan are two other states that have a good start on this. </p>
<p>Also, this sleep away college business is madness. Why should tax payers have to pay for the room and board of kids who want to go to sleep away college? Other than a few select flagship universities that can offer room and board for those students most likely to enhance the school, kids should go to local schools just as they do for high school, and look for housing around the school as they pick up part time jobs. The whole dormitory infrastructure is ludicrous. If you want to send your kid away to school, the private options are there at a premium, and the cost for those should sky rocket appropriately. I personally think those schools would be too expensive once the state schools get the funding they are all currently getting, and when these state schools become the Holy Grail of achievement rather than the privates. Let someone pay $250K a year to go to Harvard if they so please. Not such tragedy, if State U is rated better, has better facilities, provides a better education and has the funds that we are now giving to Harvard and other privates.</p>
<p>I agree with you but low income individuals can’t walk on the price car lot and get the car for free, which is what is happening here. I would have no problems and not squawk at all if we were all equal. But if the pricey car lot dealer is gonna give the Mercedes to someone just because they don’t have enough money to pay full price and turn around and charge the person who can take a loan,for the full price,</p>
<p>At some point, a wealthy Bill-Gates-like philanthropist could decide to use his money to give “car grants” to the low-income to buy a car on various car lots. You, on the other hand, would not qualify. When you go on a car lot, you would need to expect to pay full-price. </p>
<p>You’re not helping to pay for those grants, that money came from a donor.</p>
<p>Again…people should EXPECT to pay full price and if they get a discount, it’s a gift.</p>
<p>Yea we can do something about it - we can let the schools know that these tuition increases are untenable. 3.5% to 5% increases per year is putting the price of college out of reach of typical families or at best becoming overly burdensome. One could argue that college loans are affecting the ability of young adults to buy houses, start their lives, and spend money in other places. These costs are putting parents in a difficult position and forcing then to make tough decisions that could affect their financial health for decades to come.</p>
<p>Let’s look at the cost globally. I remember one college that bragging about how they sent their students to help impoverished African villages. All I could think of is what a difference the yearly cost of just one student - $50,000- would make in that African village where the average income can be less than $400 per year. I can only imagine what those villagers would think if they know how much those American college students were paying to “help” them?</p>
<p>*Also, this sleep away college business is madness. </p>
<p>Why should tax payers have to pay for the room and board of kids who want to go to sleep away college? </p>
<p>Other than a few select flagship universities that can offer room and board for those students most likely to enhance the school, kids should go to local schools just as they do for high school, and look for housing around the school as they pick up part time jobs. The whole dormitory infrastructure is ludicrous.*</p>
<p>this is VERY TRUE…that’s why fed/state aid should end at the tuition/books/fees mark. Anything beyond that should be the family/student responsibility because it is a LUXURY. </p>
<p>It is madness that students have an expectation that taxpayers should pay for their sleepaway experience or go “out of state” experience.</p>
<p>When I was in college, gov’t aid stopped at tuition because there was an expectation that students should commute to a local school. Perhaps some exceptions could be made for low-income students who don’t have a state school within 40 miles of their home. </p>
<p>But, look how it works in Calif…kids who live within driving distance of a good UC or CSU want to skip over their local school and go to a UC/CSU elsewhere…really just to “get away” (which often translates into…wanting to be out from under mom and dad’s rules). That’s fine if their families will pay for it, but to expect taxpayers to pay for it when many Calif taxpayers can barely make their rent/mortgages and put food on the table is just ridiculous. </p>
<p>The mentality is getting ridiculous. Kids are complaining that their FA packages are expecting a “summer work contribution” and work-study. Do these kids really think a school and/or taxpayer should be paying for their shampoo and pizza out with pals?</p>
<p>Mom and Mema: I agree with everything you are saying. As for the analogy of the pricey car lot scenario. I guess I just can’t see anyone getting the mercedes if they haven’t worked for it. I’m not saying that they should not have a car just not one that expensive. And all for free.</p>
<p>If Bill gates wants to help out some impoverished individuals and give them a car then make it a Honda Civic, not the Bentley. If Bill had a million dollars to give away to a school of 50 students he could give 20 needy students a BMW @ 50K or he could give all the students a Honda Civic (50 * 20K) Heck I would settle for a ford focus and let the poor kid get the Accord. Then if I really want the Accord I can pay the additional money and upgrade. I would be fine with that. Why is that unfair? Once again everyone gets something and they should all be outrageously happy. I would be regardless if I were the rich or the poor kid.</p>
<p>SlitheyT: Just for the record we visited Vandy just a few weeks ago and I asked about their merit scholarships because for whatever reason, its a school that we overlooked when it came time to apply for scholarships. So now my S was accepted and Vandy is
57K/yr. So while we were there I visited the finaid office and questioned if there were any scholarships that my S might be eligible for without an application. Of course, they knew he had already been accepted. The woman explained that there weren’t and she said not to feel bad that we missed the boat on this because he wouldn’t have gotten one any way. I was surprised and even stated that he had a 34 on his ACT amd she said that this year was super competitive and he wouldn’t have been given any consideration with a score that low, they were looking at 36’s. Scary right? They really only wanted perfection. That was their litmus test to even be considered.</p>
<p>That has always been my stance about colleges. I fully support that any student who has satisfactorally completed 2 years of college locally and meets the standard for admissions for continuing in a 4 year program that cannot be provided locally, should be given assistance for room and board at a state college. Also, in the event a student lives in an outlying area where there are NO community or other college available at state rates, a provision should be made for him. That wouldn’t be much of a financial commitment compared to what we are doing in subsidizing kids who want to go away to school when a state school is available within commuting distance. Why should we be paying for their room and board? And in many cases we are.</p>
<p>*she said not to feel bad that we missed the boat on this because he wouldn’t have gotten one any way. I was surprised and even stated that he had a 34 on his ACT amd she said that this year was super competitive and he wouldn’t have been given any consideration *</p>
<p>Altho we all know that an ACT 34 is a great score, these top schools are getting so many apps with kids with 35s/36s and/or SAT equivalents, that when they only have X number of merit scholarships to give away (say 50), those 50 are going to go to the top/top/top students.</p>
<p>these are the middle quartiles for Vandy students LAST year…</p>
<p>ACT Composite: 30 - 34 </p>
<p>So, even last year, an ACT 34 wasn’t even top 25% for the school. Vandy has become a safety (not really a safety) for those with Ivy-stellar-stats.</p>
<p>dungareedoll…I TOTALLY agree w all you are saying.I love the car analogy!
Frustrating as mid class ( yes 75-100,00) living in an expensive part of country our EFC is > 30,000 for our fourth D going to college. Even w 18,000 merit we will pay from income and take out PLUS loans ( more). I know some will say she could attend the state ( fine choice), but why should that be good enough for us and not for lower inc. family??
I’d love some investigation into who gets scholarship $(" need based") at Ivies and top tiers. If you look at data, eg 46% student body getting avg. of $35,000 scholarship and you look at the demographics of these schools ( we all know most are uppr-upper incomes), how does that compute? I know I sound bitter, but it is frustrating!
Another peeve- why are(fed loans) PLUS and student loan interest rates so high given int rates overall?</p>
<p>A private school has the right to pay for any student it wants to expect. That is the case at any grade level. Exeter, Choate, Groton do give full scholarships to certain kids who they believe enhance the school community. Some of these kids are the top of the top students, some bring a diversity or side of life that is lacking and needed to the school, some have a very special talent. These schools are private schools and if they want to use their endowment or part of their tuitions monies or annual fund to buy such students, that is fine with me and no one else’s business. So it is with the private colleges. But why the heck is government money, both direct and otherwise going to these colleges. The only thing that stopped some of these colleges dead in their tracks when they wanted throw out ROTC from their campuses was because Uncle Sam threatened to pull federal funds if they did so. It’s one of the few times, the government has entered into the picture with these schools, at least in an overt way. They also prohibit discrimination for a race, religion, etc reasons, but I have my doubts about how carefully that is followed. You can get PELL and other govt grants for schools that out and out prefer kids of their religious beliefs. But the fact of the matter, is that these funds are being used for private schools, most often to buy living expenses for the kids, not just the tuition. Heck, I’ll take it too. I resent the fact that our SUNY system does not have the best schools in the state, and yet government money is being used to subsidize the private schools. So if you want to send your kid to a better school, you have to pay the premium. I truly believe that we need to build up our state school systems. </p>
<p>NY has a good base. A lot of colleges available at affordable prices near almost everyone. You can get a college education in NY even if your parents can’t or won’t pay. You gotta live at home and commute and you don’t have the full range of choice of schools, but you can get your college education. Now the next step is to enhance the quality of these schools and also have ancillary or satellite schools throughout the area. NY already has that step in place. What it needs to do is to bring up the quality of the 4 state schools, maybe designate a state flagship and take over NYU in Manhattan for good quality flagship presence there.</p>
<p>There was an excellent article in the NY Times some years ago featuring students who were top drawer, upper middle class and higher in terms of family income and who were seeking full rides at name brand schools. One thing was made very clear in that article which was that to get the awards these kids were seeking, the chances were even more remote than getting into all 3 HPY schools. These kids were looking at the Vanderbilt merit awards, Duke’s big award, John Hopkins Beneficial scholarship, Georgia Tech’s Presidential awards, Pitts Chancellor Awards, UNC-CH’s Morehead, Emory’s awards, to name a few. The quality of those kids seeking those full or geneorous was phenomonal and the work that went into researching these scholarships and seeking them was tremendous. </p>
<p>Unless your kid’s stats are at the very top that way AND the kid has some special skill, talent, accomplishment that makes a college covet him/her, getting such awards is very much a shot in the dark. Better to look at Momfromtexas’ s thread on full ride scholarships and look for those schools that are less selective or who have a number of sizable merit awards and see if some of those aren’t attainable. Basically, you have to be just about a shoo in for admissions at the given schoolor a certainty to have a realistic shot at any of these big time awards.</p>
<p>Your suggestion of a full pay parent trading places with a low EFC one is a tired old refrain on this topic. While many would like to have the ability today to write $50k checks for college, I can assure you the list is much smaller of those who would be willing to trade places 15 or 20 years ago, do the hard work, make the sacrifices and take the risks to put them in that position.</p>
<p>Whoever told you that life was fair? The notion that everyone has the right to attend a pricey private college is the epitome of entitlement mentality. Attending one of these schools does not guarantee success nor is it the only path to get there. I graduated from a no name “cow college” and did just fine.</p>
<p>Finally with regard to universities filled with “rich white kids”, my son has about $4,000 to his name, not rich by most standards; the money is mine not his.</p>