<p>mjbktm: I love you!!! Thanks for understanding… I think what I say is very fair. I’m not looking for more than anyone else, I just want a little something thrown my way too.</p>
<p>cpt’s comment about how we shouldn’t fund ‘sleep-away’ college struck a chord with me.
There was no good (or even mediocre) program locally in what I wanted to study as a new college student. For some specialized BS/BFA/Music/Engineering etc programs, going locally would not be an option.</p>
<p>In the program I went to (top-ten nationally ranked) you could not transfer in during the 2nd or 3rd year; you would transfer in and start at the bottom.</p>
<p>Also, not everyone lives within reasonable commuting distance of a decent college–and if you add specialized talents/interests/career goals, that number gets smaller.</p>
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<p>Because, believe it or not, it may actually be less expensive than expanding the state college system to accommodate all the residents who want to go to college. My state has 3 public universities. All three operate pretty much as capacity. Freshman who don’t get housing apps in quickly enough find themselves living in lounges during first semester until rooms open up. Classes fill, etc. There would be no room at the inn if every resident who opts for an in-state private decided on a state U. The remaining options would be build and hire (expensive) or become way more selective so that a lot of in-state students would no longer have a university option.</p>
<p>Dungareedoll, yes, I agree that the Vandy merit scholarship is highly competitive. But it’s there. Competition is stiffest for big merit at higher-ranked schools or full rides (or nearly so) further down. But as the momfromtexas thread ably demonstrated, it’s possible to find these awards elsewhere. </p>
<p>mema32, $35k a year is still a chunk of change. However, that might be enough for some full-pay families to make all the difference. Here in California, that is not that much more than COA at a UC. For families that are expecting to be full-pay at a UC campus, getting a $15-20k a year merit award makes a private school affordable. For families that are full-pay but whose actual budgets are lower, there are other possibilities in the merit game. </p>
<p>Back with the discussion about if it pays to be good and save: take a look at those USNWR and see how far down you go to get to the first school that doesn’t guarantee to meet need. NYU at #33 is the first university that I see where I know for sure they don’t, not to mention the various publics. Even for those that say they meet need, their packages don’t always jibe with what the family needs.</p>
<p>There are kids for whom the local options will not work. I am the first to say this. Also, there are areas where accessibility to any college is an issue. But the way things are right now, if you have a special talent and desire for some specific program, you can find a school somewhere that fit the bill most of the time. Look at the Momfromtexas thread on full need scholarships. A lot of schools that are not big name but with some pretty specialized programs available. Those kids who hold promise in getting to a certain goal do have a leg up and options to meeting them. But most high school kids going off to college are not at all sure what they want to do, and frankly even those who think they are sure more often than not change their minds.</p>
<p>I got a a special math merit awards as an ug. It put me in a terrible position when I decided that I wanted to change my major. The scholarship was contingent to the major. After some thought, i continued in the subject to keep the money. Not ideal, but that was what it took. This can happen a lot in specialty scholarships. Can’t expect most 18 year olds to know what they want to specialize in.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is there are more graduating students in the class of 2012 than in the past two decades. More students + the Great Recession + lowered endowments = less $ for everyone! I tell my students how sorry I am for their plight. Our high school now has a program in it’s second year that allows students to accrue up to 25 community college credits to transfer. Tutition is paid by the high school. Talk about cost savings! It’s a VERY popular program. Check this out in your own community!</p>
<p>*cpt’s comment about how we shouldn’t fund ‘sleep-away’ college struck a chord with me.
There was no good (or even mediocre) program locally in what I wanted to study as a new college student. For some specialized BS/BFA/Music/Engineering etc programs, going locally would not be an option.</p>
<p>In the program I went to (top-ten nationally ranked) you could not transfer in during the 2nd or 3rd year; you would transfer in and start at the bottom.</p>
<p>Also, not everyone lives within reasonable commuting distance of a decent college–and if you add specialized talents/interests/career goals, that number gets smaller. *</p>
<p>None of the above justifies that taxpayers should pay for your major/career desires. You want the major/career, that’s a choice.</p>
<p>What is strange to me is that kids are treated so differently depending on their parents’ financial situation. One, whose parents have a low EFC, will have little debt and start adult life free and clear while the other, whose parents have a high EFC that they couldn’t by any way or means cover (most families who make $150K-$250K can’t write a check for full or almost full tuition to a top tier school), will graduate with debilitating debt. They’re from the same school, taking the same classes, but the schools clearly feel one should be burdened with debt while the other should not. </p>
<p>It makes me wonder about the student body at the top schools - is it all lower income/middle class and then skips a whole tier of upper middle class folks to jump right into the very well heeled who can write that check without thinking about it?</p>
<p>I completely understand why people making a good salary should have to pay more, but the price of college is so completely out of control, it makes me shake my head over what they think families are able to afford and how unfair it is to the kids. I am particularly sad that my husband and I won’t be able to offer our kids a college experience like what we had. Our schools - which were excellent - cost over $55K now and while we’d be able to pay a portion of that each year, our kids would have to take on a lot of debt to make it work.</p>
<p>*One, whose parents have a low EFC, will have little debt *</p>
<p>Your initial premise is wrong.</p>
<p>An overwhelming number of low EFC kids will have full loans. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny number of low income kids get into the schools that don’t put loans in FA packages.</p>
<p>If you make $250,000, you can most certainly write a check for $50,000 to pay for college. OK, so you may have to forgo the trip to Cancun this year and put off buying the new BMW, but… seriously, your family is not going to starve or be homeless.</p>
<p>Absurdly-expensive private colleges are luxury items, and I’m not sure why anyone who’s that wealthy expects not to have to pay for luxuries.</p>
<p>And please, don’t start with “$250,000 isn’t wealthy,” because anyone who thinks that is simply delusional.</p>
<p>mom2 is right. D has many low EFC friends who have the max gov loans, and often, scrounge to get co-signers to close gaps and end up with more loans on top. </p>
<p>Others have gone w local option–w/ loans, b/c anything else required loans they could not get (even if it had been advisable–which it isn’t).</p>
<p>I saw way more of the low EFC friends defer their plans than the middle/upper middle kids (D’s HS was very mixed magnet program, so she has friends in all economic groups).</p>
<p>At least if the middle/upper middle kids get some loans, they may be able to get some help from folks in paying them back. Not even a possibility for the real working class families.</p>
<p>I’d agree that if you make 250k you could write a check, and if cash flow was an issue, you could borrow and easily pay back. Maybe I’m crazy. We make WAY less than that, and are paying w/out loans (we did opt for a school w/ net cost of around 25k w/merit award; could’ve made up to 30k work…) more would’ve been hard w/out big loans. </p>
<p>We did save from birth & had a nice nest egg built up. </p>
<p>incomes of 150k put you in the 95th percentile–I don’t see how that and above could be called anything but wealthy. Maybe some people live way beyond their means…</p>
<p>NoCook, the full-pay family can choose instead to send their children to less expensive schools. Many students who are aiming at law and med school do this so that they finish undergrad debt-free. </p>
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<p>Unless you have knowledge of that family’s financial circumstances, you can’t assume this. There might be major medical expenses, or care for an older family member. The high salary might be recent; there might have been a long period of joblessness. A bankruptcy, a fire, a business loss. A late start saving for retirement, a divorce or loss of a spouse, a large family–all of these are things which might mean that someone in this income bracket can’t just blithely write a check for $50k. Some can, and more power to them. Some write a smaller check from current earnings, and supplement the rest with savings. And some just can’t manage it.</p>
<p>So educate me - what would a full gov’t loan debt load for an undergraduate degree be these days? My husband took what I believe was the maximum when he went to college; the total was $16K twenty some years ago. We scrimped and saved (I’m extremely debt averse and wouldn’t dream of taking big vacations or buying luxury cars - I’m all about saving for education as I know we will have to pay - and by the way, I’m not someone who makes $250K) and paid it off in a few years. It was very hard but it did not hang over our heads as we made paying it back a priority. I’m not sure what the equivalent would be in today’s dollars.</p>
<p>I know families who make more than $250K a year and cannot write that check. Their credit is bad so they can’t borrow. They are locked into an expensive house and other payments and debts that have to be paid. Maybe some financial commitments were unavoidable (medical issues, job issues). $50K is a lot of money to have scrape up. Cancelling cable, the NYT subscription, your Starbucks latte is not going to make a dent in that. It requires a big change. </p>
<p>Ironically a family who goes to Cancun each year, buys all of the new electronic, shops till she drops, designer clothes, eats out a lot, is easier going to be able to come up with the money. You can cut back on that stuff. Where you get stuck is when you take your salary and spend it on commitment. If you are living in a house with a $8K month mortgage and another $1-2K in maintenance/utitiliy costs, you can’t cut back on that quickly and easily. Houses are not selling quickly these days. You can’t easily discharge prior debts.</p>
<p>We have some old debts that we are still paying from some when we had our own business. They are non negotiable in terms of payment. So our income is really committed pretty much to the hilt. A lot of people are in that situation. Now I’m not looking for sympathy. Any of us in this situation knew this college whomp was coming, but the fact of the matter is that if you did not plan ahead, even with a large income, you can be stuck.</p>
<p>"the fact of the matter is that if you did not plan ahead, even with a large income, you can be stuck. "</p>
<p>This is the heart of it. I DO understand that bad/unexpected things can happen. We’ve been dealt some big blows, too…medical expenses, work downturns, pay cuts, insurance increases, home repairs, and now, tuition.</p>
<p>Those are easier to weather if you live below your means & save as much as you can…we could’ve lived even cheaper and honestly, now I wish we had! But thank my lucky stars that I was raised by super-thrifty parents–it rubbed off on me.</p>