How do the low-income kids compete?

Parent Cafe
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When one considers school clubs with expensive trips.... expensive music lessons, sports fees and similar things that probably most middle class people pay for...

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That is exactly my point. After a year of paying for all the enrichment (and in our case, private school tuition because our public school is not so great,) there is only so much elasticity left in that budget. I would NOT want to trade spots with a low income family. Been there, done that as a kid myself. I'm well aware that those kids face many more challenges than mine. But middle class families are really being squeezed. I just felt like griping a little.</p>

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<p>I would be the last to argue that anyone lower income has an easier time of it, believe me! However, there is something to what SS is saying. In my truly middle class community (neighboring SS's), few families can afford any of those things you listed, NSM. Private music lessons and sports fees beyond Little League are rare. I know of almost no kids who went to pricey summer programs; simply isn't in the budget after mortgage etc. </p>

<p>We could have paid the 4000, but that money went into the college fund we're tapping out now, instead. It's either/or for many people, not both.</p>

<p>Again, I fully support programs for inner city, lower income kids, but there is a tangible gap where families do not qualify for them, and can't possibly pay for them themselves. Not complaining, just sayin'.</p>

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<p>Sticker Shock,
I do understand the cost issue and I think we agree these programs would benefit all students. I was trying to point out that students shouldn't feel hopeless when they see the costs but instead should keep looking for cheaper options.</p>

<p>We saw medical programs that were open to students in certain cities/towns, like in some of the Brunswick areas and jokingly said we should move there. I didn't know about many of these programs until my son came home and told me. I think he found out at school or through friends - such as the free mini medical school program at Robert Woods Johnson. Although free, kids had to get there. For us, that meant a 45 min drive one way. Luckily, my son was eventually able to get a ride from some older kids who drove... </p>

<p>NJ Gov School program is a great opportunity but VERY competitive so it only helps a small group. Thanks to Corzine, it's no longer free either... I never heard of the HS honors science program at Columbia University until my son signed up for the entrance exam. Although it's free, we were asked to make a donation. Again, a 45 min drive from our house (or a train and subway). But it's a nice program and once accepted, a student can stay in it for all 4 years.</p>

<p>None of these programs gave preference to poor kids. I understand how hard it is to afford them. It's like club sports. My youngest plays bball and soccer and we stick to town travel teams because they're cheaper than the club teams. Now she's hit HS. We'll see if it hurt her but there's not much we can do about it.</p>

<p>My kids grew up at our town library. Lots of free programs there. My son took some courses through the G&T program at Montclair University. Maybe $500 which seemed a ton at the time but he was pushing and it was hard to say no to a kid who's willing to go to school on a weekend. We don't eat out or drive nice cars. We camp on our vacations. But books were always abundant at our house - library books or $.10 used books. </p>

<p>I sure wish there were more low cost/free programs. Not sure if there is a true lack of programs or if they're just too hard to find... For kids interested in math, I think Picatinny Arsenal in Rockaway Township offers a free or low cost summer program. I think Rutgers may also. I remember reading about a free summer program for HS kids interested in journalism - maybe just for girls, can't remember. I think there may be internships available to HS students for gov't type jobs down near Trenton - a bit too far for us but I seem to remember seeing opportunities down there (one in forensic science, I believe).</p>

<p>One thing my son didn't take advantage of but others might want to look into is if the HS offers job shadowing/internships. (My son job shadowed a couple of doctors on his own). I think our HS asks parents to consider offering their time/experiences to HS students. Sounds like a nice program to me. We also had a bunch of HS seniors helping teachers. What a great way for a kid to "try out" a career before commiting to a major in college - and it's free.</p>

<p>Any to clarify, my DD has a merit scholarship along with FA and that merit money was increased to cover the summer program. She was also just awarded an additional merit scholarship from her dept (my mistake, I called it a grant but it's really a scholarship). This was based on her high GPA so it's a way of encouraging/supporting the students who continue to perform well in college. I didn't know it mattered once you were in, but it does. She gets more merit $ now.</p>

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<p>Ummm...Of course low income kids (and I mean LOW - not $40,000/yr families) are at a huge disadvantage for all this stuff and more. Why do you think there aren't more of them at fancy colleges?!</p>

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<p>I kid who builds houses in South America or Africa and reports it in his or her application would just signal to me that the parents are rich, which may work if the school is not rich itself and is sensitive to ability to pay. Otherwise it would turn me off.
Of course, the one thing poor communities in South America and Africa have in abundance is manual labor!</p>

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<p>Our high school has a 40% low income Hispanic population. The biggest problem isn't that these kids don't have all of these "extras"--it's because the kids who have taken a rigorous course load and gotten a good GPA in those classes--the basics--are few and far between. </p>

<p>Fancy colleges have been more than willing to overlook lack of depth in ECs and, up to a certain limit, lack of stratospheric SAT scores for very bright low income kids. Alas, as weenie says, the disadvantage goes much deeper than that.</p>

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<p>Let me make it clear that I was not saying that I think that middle-income kids who can't afford or get for free those summer programs are at some kind of disadvantage--I don't think anything of the kind. I do think some of the experiences might have been fun and rewarding, but they are not at all necessary. We too used town programs, free libraries, and just hanging around talking about stuff and observing the world around us as our kids' main enrichment program, and I can't argue with our results.</p>

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<p>We are middle-income also, though much lower-income when the kids were little. Lots of libraries, taking advantage of free arts events, low-cost music lessons through the university's music department, etc. In high school my daughter was able to visit Brazil for free through a short-lived program run by the state; in college, went to China for free by teaching ESL, went to Nicaragua for free by going with a university group, studied Farsi free for 6-weeks (incl. room and board) paid by a federal grant, and will study abroad for free next summer. Thanks to financial aid, she was also able to study 5 months in Chile, for the same cost of studying a semester at her university. There are options out there for middle-income families. :)</p>

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<p>
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I kid who builds houses in South America or Africa and reports it in his or her application would just signal to me that the parents are rich, which may work if the school is not rich itself and is sensitive to ability to pay. Otherwise it would turn me off.
Of course, the one thing poor communities in South America and Africa have in abundance is manual labor!

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<p>Excellent point, I wonder many (myself and the parents who pay for these trips) don't realize that!</p>

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<p>I interviewed an amazing girl last year who got up at 4 am every day to work in her family's janitorial business before heading to school with a course load full of APs. I felt like she would be successful anywhere with a work ethic like that, and it impressed me far more than a paid-for exotic work experience. (She's now a freshman at her first choice school with a full scholarship). I think adcoms look for a student who has made the most of the environment they are in and the choices they have available to them.</p>

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<p>Remember when people did things for others for reasons other than getting into college? I don't either, but I also don't know when the ECmania came into being. My EC was working on a tobacco farm every summer. I would have been mortified at the time to put it on an application because it meant that we were below low income. I was embarrassed then about what makes me most proud now. Now, kids feel obliged to exaggerate their plight in their essays for effect and there had to be more Habitat for Humanity kids in NOLA this summer than there were residents. The whole thing is so disingenuous. I suppose forcing kids to do good isn't all bad, but it has become some sort of bizarre contest.</p>

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<p>Not just kids. I remember Al Gore bragging about hoeing tobacco. I didn't know it grew in Washington DC!</p>

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<p>SS--totally off topic, but Gore is not particularly proud of the fact that his father ran a tobacco farm which the family lived on part of the year (Members of Congress don't generally stay in DC all year round, do they?). I can't imagine he thought anyone didn't know that his family was wealthy, but that doesn't mean he never worked on the farm.</p>

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<p>Gore definitely wasn't proud of the tobacco farm, didn't he talk about it and his personal loss in "An Inconvenient Truth"?</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree- too rich to be poor, too poor to be rich. So, you have to create all your opportunities without any help from anyone. For example, I took a college class this summer at a top tier university. Not because I want to impress admissions people, but because I want to learn from the best. My parents didn't have the money. And, because my dad has what would be considered a decent job we didn't qualify for any loans. So I had to come up with the funds to attend. I worked at odd jobs and sold some items that were valuable to me. I couldn't afford the dorm money, so I had to take public transportation there. And, I had to pick only one class because that was all the money I had saved. There was a group of low income students there who had everything covered. At first I was really upset. But then I spoke to one of them, and realized that many of them had incountered hardships I could never imagine. Their stories put things into perspective. In the end, it was worth every penny I saved. And not because it looks impressive on a resume, but because I learned a great deal. This summer taught me skills that I can apply now. Things that could help me to pay for my classes next summer.</p>