How do the low-income kids compete?

Parents' Social Lounge
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<p>So, I was talking to my friends today and all their summer programs looks incredibly impressive. I mean, most of them are in Africa/South America building homes or something. Do low income kids actually stand a chance in the admissions? I mean I had an internship at a think-tank and if I were the adcom I'd pick the people building homes in third world countries over me in a heartbeat.</p>

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<p>Colleges know that those programs are paid for. Mommy and daddy paid for Jr. to have that opportunity. So if a kid who cannot afford to do that instead works 6 hours a week at the local soup kitchen, it can be just as good if not better. A one time project is great, but a project that has depth and breadth as far as dedication is more impressive.</p>

<p>The same goes for traveling. Just because you didn't have to oppurtunity to go to France does not mean that you are in any way a less intelligent student of the language.</p>

<p>The Morehouse Scholarship offered by UNC-CH tries very hard to avoid rewarding kids who've done great things/traveled a lot "just because they could."</p>

<p>The advantages that higher income kids have over low income kids are more obvious when it comes to test prep and tutoring opportunities. Plenty of kids buy their scores, while others can only afford to take the test once.</p>

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<p>Plenty of students from low-income families who have never been out of the country get admitted to the full range of colleges. Someone who wants to perform community service doesn't need to go to India or Africa - they can go as close as the city or town they live in.</p>

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<p>Those who go away to exotic places to do their community service are a captive audience (or rather, captive participant)...they bought the experience, and are put to work for a week, two, three, whatever. Those that consistently volunteer, albeit 2 to 10 hours a week over a one to three year period, within their own communities, show perserverance and passion.</p>

<p>Secondly, those that go away will not be "fired". They will finish their stint with their 50 hours or so, whether or not they're worth a crap. Those that volunteer 2 to 10 hours a week over years show that they were valued (or they would have been "let go")</p>

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<p>"The advantages that higher income kids have over low income kids are more obvious when it comes to test prep and tutoring opportunities."</p>

<p>In addition, they have more of a choice in college <em>enrollment</em>. (Doesn't do a lot of good to be accepted to NYU & similar places which are not prepared or able to award generously when it comes to need, if you will not be able to pay for it and/or qualify for, or have parents qualify for, extremely large loans.)</p>

<p>Nevertheless, those who have made the most of limited opportunities I do think get noticed, judging by results threads on CC alone. The question is, Can they afford to pay for all the colleges that "notice" them? (probably not)</p>

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<p>Last year I interviewed a young woman from a low income family who had managed to spend two high school summers abroad. And when I say abroad, i don't mean Canada, Mexico, or the Carribean. She didn't pay for either trip. She said she wanted to major in international relations and she felt that she should see some of the world. So, she did some research and found programs that might pay her way and applied to each of them. In one case she wrote a letter to a well-known program that mommy&daddy usually pay for, saying that she thought it was very wrong if people abroad only met rich white kids.</p>

<p>Hey, she was more tactful to me when explaining what she had done, but that was the gist of it. She thought if they were going to pick teens to represent the US abroad, they ought to include some people of color and some poor kids who could never afford their fees. Believe me, I was impressed. And, so obviously, was the organization which received her letter. </p>

<p>Almost all of the truly low-income kids I have interviewed had some great summer experiences. I ended up wanting to clone a couple of their counselors and teachers. The City of New York has a program which tries to help poor kids get summer jobs. Some of those jobs are in big law and accounting firms and major corporations. The kids with personalities often end up picking up a mentor. </p>

<p>I'll admit that I ended up feeling once again that it is the middle class that loses out. Don't misunderstand--given a choice between being poor and middle class, I would DEFINITELY choose middle class! Nevertheless, it seems to me that middle class families have to say "no" to expensive options and find themselves frozen out of many programs for smart kids from low income families.</p>

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<p>In reading recent stories about college admissions, I had the distinct impression that service trips abroad are a commodity and of no value in distinguishing one's self from the pack. A low income kid who shows a genuine interest in higher education and is taking the most rigorous classes available to him or her on the other hand is of genuine interest to selective schools. </p>

<p>Private schools know that the hordes of upper middle class white kids who apply there will probably do well no matter where they matriculate. The biggest "bang for the buck" in terms of creating opportunity and upward mobility is in giving scarce spots at selective schools to first-generation college students. I could be starry-eyed and naive, but my hunch is that good schools are on the lookout for truly disadvantaged smart hardworking kids and so if you can't afford to build houses in Guatamala because you have to work to buy school clothes, that's almost an advantage now.</p>

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<p>Very true that service abroad programs paid for by Mommy and Daddy do not impress colleges.</p>

<p>Far more impressive to colleges are when students do things like: create a service program of any kind in their community; work a job to help support their family or raise money for college, particularly jobs that require hard labor or are boring like being a fast food worker. </p>

<p>cushy "internships" with Daddy's firm or family friends aren't as impressive. College admissions officers aren't stupid. They know that high school student "interns" are likely to be simply go-fers with glamorous titles, and most high school students aren't going to get such a position without contacts who probably are friends of their parents.</p>

<p>"I could be starry-eyed and naive, but my hunch is that good schools are on the lookout for truly disadvantaged smart hardworking kids and so if you can't afford to build houses in Guatamala because you have to work to buy school clothes, that's almost an advantage now."</p>

<p>No "almost" about it. It is an advantage because that shows a very high level of motivation, too.</p>

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<p>Darth Nader:</p>

<p>Adcoms know that students from modest backgrounds do not have the same opportunities as students from more affluent families to attend summer programs, to travel abroad or even sometimes to do unpaid internships. </p>

<p>If you had an internship at a think tank, that can be very impressive. Even if your job involved mostly photocopying and other menial tasks, you can write about your observations of the permanent staff of the think tank.
If you have been working doing the school year, that, too, is a good EC and fodder for an essay.</p>

<p>Essays and ECs don't have to be about some phenomenal activity in exotic places. ECs are about commitment, drive, initiative. Essays should be about you.</p>

<p>A student once posted an essay about working at the take-out booth of a McDonald's, about different types of customers, about his fellow workers. I thought it was quite effective. An essay I enjoyed very much was about reluctantly learning to jog and becoming hooked on it. It had rueful tone to it that made me smile and want to know the writer better (she got into a top school) Another essay was about observing protesters at the Republican convention a few years ago. The observations were very sharp and demonstrated a keen eye for the telling vignette and a sense of humor. Still another essay was about how a certain type of food evoked memories of the writer's grandmother. </p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>

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<p>"An essay I enjoyed very much was about reluctantly learning to jog and becoming hooked on it. It had rueful tone to it that made me smile and want to know the writer better (she got into a top school) "</p>

<p>Oh, I remember that one. It was one of the best college essays I've ever seen. Had excellent humor, writing, and good insight into her character, far more compelling than yet another essay about winning or losing the big game or how traveling abroad taught a student that "people are people."</p>

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<p>With fee waivers, a low income student can take the SAT twice.</p>

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<p>I also think this is true, not only for summer programs but also for colleges. But as was said, I'd still rather be middle class than poor...</p>

<p>At our local high school with a 40% Hispanic/10% Af-Am/10% Pacific Islander racial make up, top kids of low income color are VERY, VERY rare and all have gotten acceptances to and full financial support at the top private universities in the US. At the top schools, if they notice you, you'll be able to afford at least one of the schools. The financial aid packages are often very generous at those schools with humongous endowments.</p>

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<p>The expensive options don't get students into top colleges.</p>

<p>Middle class students don't need the programs for kids from low income families.</p>

<p>Middle class students have far more ability to do things like volunteer, work jobs (due to probably having transportation, contacts, parents who know how to help their kids get jobs), excel in their school extracurriculars due to being able to spend time on them instead of handling responsibilities at home or not being able to do extracurriculars because they lack transportation, etc.</p>

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<p>While it is true that expensive summer programs just prove to admissions that you don't need financial aid :-), it is also true that the deck is stacked against lower income students, especially at elite colleges.</p>

<p>Thefact versus fiction is that these kids have a tougher time getting in, in spite of the statements adcoms make about wanting such students, making allowances and such. The research that has been done shows that, controlling for URM status, SES works against kids: No breaks at all for lower SES.</p>

<p>That is the sad reality, but this is not a change from past years, when all sorts of groups were discriminated against. After all, who would want to go to a college that had too many lower middle or lower class kids attending? Egads!!!</p>

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<p>There is a significant difference between a low income family in a middle class town and a low income family in a low income town or city. We live in a middle - upper middle class town and my wife is a vice principal in a school in a poor city. With the same income, the opportunities that these two families will have or even be aware of will not even be close. With the more affuent town, the school system is focussed on students graduating and attending college. In the poor city that my wife works in, its a daily struggle just keeping students from killing each other. From what I can see, for a lot of these students, the deck is so stacked against them, that they will never come to the attention of these schools that are supposedly looking to admit them. Things that a lot of us on this site take for granted such as taking SAT's, a lot of these students not only aren't aware of when to take them, they're not even aware that they exist!</p>

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<p>newmassdad is right.</p>

<p>And many of the low SES kids are also asians, often first generation kids from urban areas, who get the short end of the stick as well.</p>

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<p>We're low income and my son found ways to attend some of those expensive programs. He found scholarships (ELKS, etc) to pay for a summer program at Brown. He attended a yr long honors program at Columbia University that was free (had to test into). He attended a 4 week summer science program at Drew University (Governor's School) that was free. He attended a yr long mini medical school program held at one of our state medical schools - it was free. There are opportunities available out there. My son found these on his own and applied to them - then he told us about them.</p>

<p>My DD just spent 6 weeks in Florence taking 2 classes. Her school said the classes were worth 9 credits, making her a part time student. They could only offer her a small loan since she was part time. She arranged with an English teacher to do an independent study (4 credits) when she returned in Aug. This additional class brought her to full time status - which her FA officer said was necessary to obtain grant money. She was then awarded 2 grants that covered most of her expenses. There are ways to make things happen.</p>

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<p>i'm in a similar situation as above. i'm middle class and i've traveled a lot (4 trips, five countries) but its different for me because my school's an international studies magnet and gets some grant money/fundraises to make travel more affordable for us to travel to and set up sister schools abroad. there are also programs with merit scholarships such as YFU. its hard, but they'r there if you look for them sometimes.</p>

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<p>Wow, this is all news to me! Thanks.</p>

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<p>Jerzgirl, I know NJ Governor's school is free to all who are admitted. How about the others? Our middle class income shuts us out of programs all the time. In fact, some of the most interesting programs will only accept kids from Newark public schools, which is our big urban hub. I remember a great "girls in science" program at the local engineering college that was wonderful....free to all the inner city girls. $4K to suburbanites who wanted to attend. That's a big chunk of change to a middle-class budget. We lucked out once at that same college when they held a soccer/swim summer camp for girls. They were trying to get girls to be aware of the college & have young athletes keep it in consideration for the future. Once again, suburban teams were invited at full price so they could subsidize the inner city girls. The South American coach of D's travel soccer team pointed out that the majority of the team was made up of Central & South American immigrant's kids. Voila. It was suddenly free.</p>

<p>I agree that many underprivleged kids miss opportunities because they have families that are not even aware of the free programs out there. But it sure is frustrating to look into programs & constantly see they are set up with "middle-class will fully subsidize the lower class" tuition structures. It puts many of them out of reach for middle clas families.</p>

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<p>"I agree that many underprivleged kids miss opportunities because they have families that are not even aware of the free programs out there. But it sure is frustrating to look into programs & constantly see they are set up with "middle-class will fully subsidize the lower class" tuition structures. It puts many of them out of reach for middle clas families."</p>

<p>Keep in mind that even a free program may be out of reach for a low income student because such students may need to work over the summers and during the school year. The money that they make may be needed by their families to pay for essentials or they may be needed at home to provide supervision for siblings because the family can't afford to pay for summer camps or babysitters for younger sibs.</p>

<p>For nonresidential programs, low income students may lack the transportation to attend such programs.</p>

<p>While $4,000 is a lot of money for a summer program, there are many middle class families who stretch their budgets to send their kids to such things. After all, the families probably will be paying more than that each year for their kids' college. </p>

<p>When one considers school clubs with expensive trips (The brief time that my S was in Mu Alpha Theta, it seemed that at least once a month, we were expected to pay $100 or so to cover their traveling somewhere to compete), expensive music lessons, sports fees and similar things that probably most middle class people pay for, it really is the lower income students who are at a great disadvantage because they can't afford the time or money to participate in many such activities that middle class people take for granted.</p>