<p>Agreed to focus on math/science SAT IIs and submit the excellent ACT score. CMU SCS is indeed “a reach for everyone,” but if he isn’t set on CS, I would first investigate how easy it is to transfer between schools.</p>
<p>No real math/science achievements yet. His school doesn’t offer the AMC. I think he will take a local UVM math contest, and we’ll be pushing his school to offer the AMC next year so he can take it. </p>
<p>Course load is almost the most rigorous available in his school, except that he passed on APUSH (took honors instead). His only APs this year are Bio and English Composition. Next year he’ll have Chem (our school’s first time offering it), Physics (not sure which version but I think mechanics), Calc AB and English Literature. He may self-study for the Comp Sci A exam. </p>
<p>Also he was not admitted to his school’s National Honor Society, I suspect because of his minimal community service. He’ll almost certainly be asked to apply again this year. </p>
<p>I should also mention that last semester he unofficially helped teach an intro programming class during the period he was doing an independent study with the programming teacher. The teacher was teaching GameMaker for the first time, and my son was the one who was able to find everyone’s bugs, etc. He needs to pitch this as community service, I think.</p>
<p>Interesting about CMU being a reachy match. I thought they were as selective as MIT. Could one apply to more than one of the schools at CMU, in case he didn’t get into SCS?</p>
<p>I agree that the circus thing may be just the thing to make him stand out and catch someone’s eye. </p>
<p>Aren’t there scholarships that are based on SAT scores where an ACT won’t do? Would it be worth it taking it again for that reason alone?</p>
<p>SATII’s will be MathII and Bio this June. We think he needs to do Chemistry too (some places want Chem or Physics rather than bio) but that’s an issue since he’s taking both of those next year. He did have a rather light honors Chem class last year, so I think he needs to check the SATII prep book and figure out if he can self-study it for June or if he’ll be better off taking it in the fall as he’s just starting his Chem class.</p>
<p>He definitely wants to apply everywhere as early as possible for EA (but not ED). </p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions of other schools to check out. Based on our visits, he seems most comfortable at the “technical” schools as opposed to the broader schools, even if they have a great CS program. But we’re just starting to look, so maybe he’ll find some more general schools that he loves too.</p>
<p>Thanks!!!</p>
<p>More replies that I missed in my last one:</p>
<p>We’d like to keep him within driving distance. It seems like there are enough excellent schools nearby to set him up quite nicely. CMU at 8 hours drive from here is probably as far as we’d like him to go. He can go out west for grad school if he so chooses. I wouldn’t prevent him from applying to other schools (Caltech interests him) but travel costs are an issue.</p>
<p>Money is definitely an issue. MIT does not give merit money, but they do meet full demonstrated need, and mostly with grants rather than loans. We’re kind of in that gray area too, though, where we make too much to get much need-based money (though I think we would get some from a place that meets full need whose cost of attendance exceeds 50K). </p>
<p>His PSAT was 217. That should be in National Merit Range for VT (past few years have been in the 213-216 range, I believe) but not something we can count on. </p>
<p>He’ll be glad to hear you all don’t think he needs to take the SAT again 
He’s in precalc this semester, so he should be primed for MathII in June. Also assume the Bio SATII will be a breeze after the AP exam in May. If he gets Chem done this June also, he could be done with standardized testing and not have to do any senior year. I think he’d be pretty happy about that :)</p>
<p>RobD, I think I need a spreadsheet!</p>
<p>S has found the CMU game club online, and is writing a game for their current contest.</p>
<p>As far as his current CS experience, his HS keeps changing up their CS program, so he’s taken a number (maybe 3) of intro to programming classes using different languages. He’s studied Alice, Visual Basic, C, and Flash. C was through Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth, online. On his own, he’s played a lot with GameMaker. He’s hoping to learn Java and take the AP CS exam next year.</p>
<p>CMU SCS is as reachy as MIT, but the rest of the school less so. So it makes looking at Naviance a bit difficult. You can apply to more than one school. It’s very easy to transfer out of SCS, I’m told it’s easy to transfer in if you get an A in the entry level course. You can apply to more than one school and decide in April what to do if you don’t get into SCS. (Assuming that’s the direction he wants to go then.) I don’t know how easy it is to get that A though! My son thought AP Comp Sci was dumb, but easy. If your son took C through CTY, I expect he’ll find it easy too.</p>
<p>I’ll jump in and say that if he’s at/above the AP level in comp sci, he should consider looking at or participating in the US Computer Science Olympiad. [Programming</a> Contest](<a href=“http://www.usaco.org%5DProgramming”>http://www.usaco.org) They have a number of competitions throughout the year which can get one to the national finals and beyond. However, more importantly, they have a FREE online curriculum. It is heavy algorithmic programming that will challenge him and push him to improve his math skills. S did USACO for four years and never got to the end of the curriculum – it is that tough.</p>
<p>I like your list so far. I’d definitely consider Cornell - it definitely has a techie culture. With the stats you describe, I’d call it a match. </p>
<p>Another place worth looking at with a huge techie culture is the University of Waterloo in Ontario. It’s probably closer for you than CMU. The university has been called “Silicon Valley of the North”. Bill Gates has said that most years Microsoft typically hires more Waterloo graduates than any other school in the world. </p>
<p>Toronto also has great CS. </p>
<p>The thing about the Canadian schools is that they only care about stats, not ECs, and Toronto should be a safety. I’m think Waterloo is a safety too, though I’m not positive. Yet these schools are as rigorous as the most challenging US schools. </p>
<p>Case Western in Cleveland is also very techie at the same driving distance as Pittsburgh.</p>
<p>mathmomVT -</p>
<p>My son’s school only offers the AMC “A” test in early February. He wanted to take the “B” test as well, so we asked the school to order the additional test date, which we paid for (about $35). Unfortunately, next year’s February test dates will be past your son’s college application deadline, but if he’s waiting for regular decision, really good scores could be sent in at the last minute.</p>
<p>mathmomvt: We did have a spreadsheet and I pulled out all kinds of data points when it was filled out to rack and stack schools. Yeah, I know how to party :)</p>
<p>Re: PSAT. VT was 213 this past year. While scores can go up or down a few points each year, it’s highly unlikely that VTs score will go up 5 points this year and knock your S out of the running. We were also in that gray area with finances, so D built her list with an eye on NMF merit money. It worked for us. See the link for the 2009 Student Guide at [National</a> Merit Scholarship Corporation - Sponsorship](<a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/sponsorship.php]National”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/sponsorship.php) and look at the back for the list of colleges that participate. Even if he only finds one or two there, that could be your financial safety.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry at all about him not being in NHS. There are threads on here about what NHS means at various high schools; it’s a nice thing to have, but a lot of top students don’t join (either because they’re not asked or because the choose not to) so it won’t be a deal breaker anywhere.</p>
<p>Definitely check out Drexel - he probably would qualify for some merit $$$.</p>
<p>I want to clarify that my comment that CMU wasn’t a big reach was, as you might suspect from subsequent comments, based on application to the “whole school,” not to SCS.</p>
<p>I’m fairly sure that your son’s current SAT is high enough for NMF–the timing is the only possible issue. In any case, NMF designation, while nice, isn’t going to make the kind of difference to admissions that participating successfully in some of the programming opportunities others have described would. And he would undoubtedly find it a whole lot more rewarding to work on a programming competition than study for the SAT! Whether it would make any difference to financial aid is another matter. There are some schools that give significant money to NMFs, but the question is, would he want to go to any of them? I’m told that U of Rochester does, but that was my son’s safety and he was an NMF, and although they gave him a nice merit scholarship aimed at kids with one of his ECs, their overall FA package was by far the lowest we saw and did not include any extra money for being an NMF. In fact, in light of our EFC, their FA was ludicrously low.</p>
<p>Have you considered Olin? The suggestion of the Canadian schools is an excellent one. I’ve known kids who got half COA awards at US schools for whom it was still cheaper to go to a Canadian school.</p>
<p>Safety for game design: Emerson in Boston.</p>
<p>We are actually considering Waterloo and UofT. My husband and I actually went to (and met at) Waterloo. My husband was Canadian when my S was born, so I think he qualifies for dual citizenship, and hence the cheaper fees at the Canadian universities. </p>
<p>So, here’s another question: My son really loved WPI and RPI. So if those are “safeties” for him, does he really need to add a bunch of matches he may be less in love with to the list? I’d like to have a little more variety just to make sure we have options in terms of scholarship/finaid packages, but I guess my real question is are WPI and RPI good enough and well-regarded enough schools to open a variety of opportunities to him upon graduation, including possibly grad school at a place like MIT or CMU? And will he find enough challenge and enough other students “like him” at those places. One of my criteria for him is that he end in up in a program where there are some kids smarter than him 
It was a big part of what was great about my undergrad education.</p>
<p>I will add another likely for OP’s S: University of Maryland College Park. They have a very good CS department and if one gets into Honors, there is a terrific advisor who gets kids where they need to be. There are many folks who double major in math/CS. They are generous with AP credit and merit $$. We know kids who have turned down MIT/Harvard, etc. to take the full ride and access to research/early graduate courses.</p>
<p>S1 loved Olin. They are engineering, though – it is hard to get a math major there (one would have to go to one of their consortium schools to do it). He ultimnately chose not to apply because he had a LOT of math coming into college and needed significant depth. A former math prof at Harvey Mudd is the faculty dean and they do some great stuff there.</p>
<p>If your S would consider it, I’ll second CRD’s suggestion of Waterloo. It is fantastic and probably the best place for a CS/math person in Canada. It’s on S’s list of possibilities for grad school.</p>
<p>There are a few WPI parents on the Class of 2013 thread. Several of their kids were choosing between WPI and RPI. I believe both give merit $$.</p>
<p>I think you have covered most of your options. Let me tell you a few things about CMU since it is on your “maybe” list. If your financial situation is such that your child will need aid to attend CMU, I have to think that you will be discouraged at their offer. The school just announced that the COA for next year will top $55,000, and for years they have had to gap students FA awards (offer less than the level of need). This year, they also thinned and spread out whatever merit awards they have in order to reach more students.</p>
<p>Do look into Cornell, which has a generous aid policy though somewhat uneven distribution. Their CS is one of the very best programs in the country, and the wealth of other offerings is amazing. </p>
<p>Ask around at your school about the RPI medal. It is a $15,000/year scholarship to RPI that is typically given to a high school’s outstanding math/science student IN JUNIOR YEAR. RPI also offers special early admissions to outstanding students. Your son will be treated well there.</p>
<p>As an RPI grad, I can tell you that your son will find his degree very well regarded in the market place. For schools like RPI, the application pool is a very self selecting group, it is, after all an engineering school, not a university. So, the selectivity statistics of applicants is deceiving. </p>
<p>He should look into the RPI medal. One of my friends daughter received one last year, and she will be attending RPI in the class of 2014.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I was also going to mention the Rensselaer Medal, but Midwesterner beat me to the punch. Since the directions on awarding the Medal are rather vague, some high schools will award it to a top student who has specifically expressed interest in RPI (or so I have been told):</p>
<p>“It is awarded to promising secondary school juniors who have distinguished themselves in mathematics and science. Responsibility for selecting the Rensselaer Medalist belongs to faculty and staff within the participating secondary school.”</p>
<p>If your school is not in the program, I do not think it would be too late for your guidance counselor to sign up and award a Medal for this year.</p>
<p>Here is the link:</p>
<p>[Rensselaer</a> Medal Program - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)](<a href=“http://admissions.rpi.edu/aid/medal.html]Rensselaer”>http://admissions.rpi.edu/aid/medal.html)</p>
<p>My S was accepted into both RPI and WPI last year. He liked both schools very much, but ultimately decided to go to RPI, as he liked RPI’s Information Technology program and WPI only offered straight Computer Science.</p>
<p>Both schools are good with merit aid - in our experience, particularly RPI.</p>
<p>My understanding, for what it is worth, is that both schools do send students to top grad schools and that he will find plenty of very smart kids at both schools.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Take a look at the old NRC rankings of computer science graduate programs (they don’t change much)</p>
<p>MIT (2)
CMU (4)
Cornell (5)
Brown (12)
Harvard (12)
Maryland (16)
Yale (16)
NYU (19)
UMASS (19)
Columbia (23)
Rochester (31)
JHU (36)
Syracuse (48)
Pitt (48)
UPenn (52)
RPI (57)
Dartmouth (62)
WPI (121)
out of 126 ranked. </p>
<p>Clearly as an undergraduate, the first 3 (MIT, CMU and Cornell) are extremely special experiences, with large departments and great opportunities for undergraduate research - the most important criteria for getting into a top grad school IMHO, but as you go further down the food chain, other factors may prevail. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hard to say, but probably more likely with RPI than WPI. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m sure you know more about Waterloo than me, but for an undergrad, the technology culture of Waterloo, always impressed me as at least worthy of a look. I think that he’s more likely to find a core of kids smarter than himself in Canada (Waterloo or Toronto) than at WPI, UMASS, UVM, or Northeastern, not that these are bad schools, but the Canadian schools are a first choice of some of Canada’s best students. I think that the schools in the latter group are poor substitutes for a kid who could handle MIT. On the other hand, I don’t know how hard it is to get undergraduate research opportunities at the Canadian schools, but they do seem to place a bunch of graduates in top programs. RPI probably does have a fair number of high achieving kids and is often a safety for those with a serious shot at MIT. </p>
<p>I think that you’re asking really good questions. Those are the ones most difficult to answer :-).</p>
<p>Another ranking-from USNews 2/2010–Each program may have strengths that appeal to a particular student.</p>
<p>MIT/Stanford/Berkeley
CMU
UIUC
Cornell/Princeton/UW
GaTech/UT
Caltech</p>