how do we know what's a safety, match, reach, and how many schools should one apply t

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is a junior in HS. He's interested in Computer Science with an emphasis on game programming, although he's not all that solid in his choice, and would love the flexibility to switch to another math/science field fairly easily. We just did a round of college visits, and my son's top choices are:</p>

<p>WPI
RPI
MIT
CMU (haven't visited yet)</p>

<p>Others under consideration are:
Northeastern
UMass Amherst (felt a bit big and "too general" but he could be happy there)
UVM (University of Vermont -- we're in VT)</p>

<p>We're trying to figure out if this is a sufficient set of schools to apply to, and whether there are enough safety, match, reach schools. Places like MIT and CMU are a reach for everyone, but places like WPI and RPI look like they may almost be safeties for him, given where his stats fall on their chart.</p>

<p>My son's stats are:
GPA unweighted ~3.9 on a scale where only 100% in the class is worth 4.0
not sure on class rank, somewhere in top 10 (but not top 2 or 3) out of 300 students.
ACT 35 (Reading 36, Math 34, Science 35, essay score 8)
SAT 2170 (Reading 720, Math 770, Writing 680)
(has only taken ACT and SAT once -- may be able to retake and raise scores, but I'm not sure it's worthwhile -- I imagine 35 ACT is good enough for anywhere, although the 34 Math may look a little low at places like CMU and MIT -- he could probably ace the math if he took ACT during a semester in which he had a math class, but I'm not sure he'd ever get a 36 Reading again -- do most of the places he's looking at superscore?)</p>

<p>EC's
Drama: 1-2 plays per year each year of HS
Tae Kwon Do: earned a black belt working from ages 7 - 15
Rock Climbing club: goes when he can fit it in between school and drama commitments
Circus skills: has worked as a junior counselor at a vacation circus camp for elementary/middle school kids and is adept on stilts, tight wire, juggling, etc.
This summer he will be part of a leadership/CIT program at the residential camp he attended up to age 14
Community Service -- he has done some community service projects through our synagogue, but nothing major or sustained</p>

<p>Feedback and suggestions? Thanks!</p>

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<p>I think the only way to really determine safety/match/reach with any kind of certainty is to look at each school’s published stats and see where he falls. If he’s above the average stats for students there (for ex. if he’s a 3.9 and the average is a 3.7) then it’s a match. If he’s well above (the avg. is 3.5 or lower) then its probably a safety, and if he’s under or just at it (avg is 3.9-4.0) it’s a reach. Do the same when looking at test scores. And ask his guidance counselor since they should know the schools pretty well and have a sense of who gets in/who doesn’t. It’s not all based on test scores and GPA, but those are some of the quantifiable variables (his EC’s look awesome by the way). </p>

<p>I think that’s a good list of schools though. I find a good rule of thumb is that you should apply to more than 2 schools but fewer than 10, but there is no hard and fast minimum or limit. Some students love a LOT of schools and apply to more, others are more selective in taste.</p>

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<p>

Surprisingly, this may really help him at some of these schools. I think they like these quirky ECs. Somebody posted some adcom’s comment form on here someplace, about a kid who applied to and got into MIT, and they mentioned his unicycling or something like that.</p>

<p>I mean, I doubt they’ll recieve too many aps from circus performers.</p>

<p>Oh, and that list looks very reasonable to me.</p>

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<p>What about Cornell? It has very good CS program, both in A&S and Engineering.</p>

<p>I think it’s a good list your son has. I tend to think of upside down pyramid when it comes to number of safeties (1 or 2), matches (3), reaches(4), high reaches (5). It’s really just playing probability game. But if your son is happy with CMU and MIT and no other reaches, then that’s fine.</p>

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<p>Any math/science accomplishments?
I bet those techy schools are looking for them as well. I know that MIT asks for your AMC/AIME scores. Not to say one can’t be admitted without it ;)</p>

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<p>Doesn’t he need to take some SAT IIs? With a 35 ACT in his pocket, I’d suggest aiming at two very good SATII scores–especially a very high MathII score–instead of taking the SAT/ACT again.</p>

<p>I don’t think CMU is “a reach for everyone” although its admissions are certainly competitive. Although I don’t have their stats at hand, I’d doubt that it would be a significant reach for your son. Maybe a reachy match. With his stats and ECs, it sounds to me as if you have one reach (MIT), one low reach or high match (CMU), and a whole lot of safeties, including one financial safety (UVM). </p>

<p>One thing you haven’t mentioned is the rigor of his courseload. The above holds true only if it is “most rigorous” in terms of his school.</p>

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<p>Hi, fellow Vermonter here. </p>

<p>Your son’s list is heavy on safeties. Those are good to have. He has the high reach of MIT. He doesn’t have a lot in the match category except CMU. I would explore some more matches and reaches to balance the list (IF he wants them). Have you looked at Tufts, Northwestern, University of Michigan, Brown, Rice, USC, or Cornell?</p>

<p>(I cross posted with Consolation but…same idea)</p>

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<p>Here’s what I use to figure out where a school falls (I am very conservative & others will say that you can be a little more liberal given your son’s stats):</p>

<p>Safety: A school with a 40% or higher acceptance rate where your GPA AND SAT scores are both in the top 25% (i.e. above the published 25-75%) </p>

<p>Match:

  1. A school with a 25%-40% acceptance rate with your scores and GPA both in the top 25%, or
  2. a school with a 40% or higher acceptance rate with your scores and grades both in the middle 50% </p>

<p>Reach:

  1. A school with a 25-40% acceptance rate with your scores & GPA in the middle 50% or
  2. A school with a 40% or greater acceptance rate where your stats are in the bottom 25%, or </p>

<p>Super reach:

  1. A school with a 25%-40% acceptance rate where either your GPA or SAT is in the bottom 25% and the other is in the middle 50%.
  2. A school where the acceptance rate is under 25% regardless of where your scores and GPA fall.</p>
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<p>Kids at my kids school who liked MIT and CMU also liked:</p>

<p>JHU, Chicago, Rochester, Cornell, Rice for the reachy/matchy type schools.</p>

<p>Case, Wisconsin, Illinois, BU for the matchy/safety schools</p>

<p>If you want another High Reach type place with strong CS but also wonderful opportunities in pure math or other science disciplines have him take a look at Princeton.</p>

<p>Agree with Soozie on Brown- very strong applied math program; they will love the circus experience, especially if your son can develop a light-hearted essay about it.</p>

<p>Also- can your son articulate what he’s liked and disliked about the places he’s seen? Some kids really don’t care much about ambiance, city/rural, campus, vibe. It’s all about the academics and finding 3-4 close friends and an EC or two they are passionate about. Other kids are more sensitive to the fit elements. If you can tell us the two or three most important things (other than CS) that would help us steer you.</p>

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<p>Brown is actually strong in computer science.</p>

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<p>Sounds a lot like my kid. (The original mathmom :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>We had WPI and RPI as safeties. CMU overall can be a match, but if you want the School of Computer Science, it’s a reach for everyone. I do think he has a pretty good chance there. I’m not sure how much game programming there is for undergrads - though I know there is a grad program. What sort of computer related things has he done already? I think it’s a plus at CMU, whereas at MIT he’s better off emphasizing what else he brings to the table. (Like the circus.)</p>

<p>Is he willing to look away from the East Coast? My son also applied to Stanford, Harvey Mudd and Caltech, and we thought about some of the midwest tech schools like Case, Rose Hulman, and IIT.</p>

<p>Math score is not too low - that’s one careless mistake most likely. I agree though take the SAT2 - not sure if you need it with the ACT score - but a likely 800 on Math2 will erase the SAT1 score.</p>

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<p>If you want more reaches, Stanford should be on your list…
UIUC can be a good safety if he is confident in his interest in CS.</p>

<p>I agree that he should take MathII subject test - it is usually an easy 800 for “mathy” kids.
If he wants to apply to CMU, make sure to check their SAT II requirements - they used to be pretty specific in the past.</p>

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<p>*
Safety: A school with a 40% or higher acceptance rate where your GPA AND SAT scores are both in the top 25% (i.e. above the published 25-75%)*</p>

<p>A safety is also a school that is affordable.</p>

<p>Is money no object? If so, then I agree with suggesting Brown, Cornell, UIUC, and maybe some California schools.</p>

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<p>That is true M2CK! I have a little “brochure” that I’ve put together for friends to distill my college app wisdom and I have the financial safety piece before the academic safety piece. Along with the well worn CC phrase “Love thy safety :)”</p>

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<p>Might throw in RIT and Drexel as safeties (Drexel is rolling admisison, if he completed his application by the end of September, he would have a response by the end of October - takes some of the pressure off).</p>

<p>Also, apply to WPI Early Action Round 1 - the acceptance rate is over 80% and he would get an answer in December.</p>

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<p>If you/your S are willing to look at the west coast UCSC has fabulous math/science and are one of the pioneers in video game design. Additional access to the Silicon Valley may make it that much more attractive</p>

<p>I am in agreement w/ Rob D re. the definitions except that in my mind a safety is a school with a better than 50% accept rate where stats are above range</p>

<p>Like dadinator says you dramatically increase acceptance odds at some schools by applying early. Do your homework in that regard and a match can become a safety and so on.</p>

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<p>As the parent of a HS senior, I will weigh in on the potential for merit scholarships. We are a family in that middle ground- won’t get financial aid, but not able to easily afford $50K+ per year. Most of the prestigious, top schools do not give merit aid, no matter how brilliant your kid. Be sure to apply to some financial safeties. RPI and WPI do give merit aid. MIT will not. Neither will Stanford, Harvey Mudd, or Brown.</p>

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<p>Merit money: If he applies to USC by December first (check for exact deadline) he will be eligible for (generous) merit scholarships. It’s nonbinding. Your son’s ACT score probably puts him in the running. did he take the PSAT?</p>

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<p>There is merit aid at Harvey Mudd.
[HMC</a> Merit-Based Awards](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/admission1/costsandaid1/typesofaid1/scholarshipsandgrants1/hmcmeritbasedawards.html]HMC”>Merit-Based Scholarships | Admission and Financial Aid | Harvey Mudd College)</p>

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<p>sorry duplicate post</p>