My daughter has been accepted into four BM programs for classical vocal performance. She really likes two professors at different schools, and could see herself working well with either one. We are in the middle of determining final numbers for financial aid, and I know that will weigh heavily on the decision, but aside from that, what criteria should she use to help her make a decision between the two?
She wants to pursue opera, so she’s trying to determine performance opportunities for undergraduates, but that’s tough to tell online. We’re also looking at location, and trying to figure out which is better for her.
Does anyone have suggestions for other factors to consider? Thanks in advance.
She’s between Ithaca College and McGill University, in case that helps.
Our D is also VP pursuing Opera. She finally decided on SUNY Purchase. For her a couple of factors: there is a professor there that she connected with and that made the school very attractive. Purchase also has alot of performance opportunities for undergrads which she was advised would set her up well for graduate school. Being close NYC is also potentially giving her other opportunities. She was also accepted to NYU Steinhardt and Ball State. NYU was very attractive as well but for the cost it was hard to argue for NYU over SUNY (assuming performance opportunities in NYC would be similar).
Definitely ask what performance opportunities are. There were a couple of schools that fell off our list for undergraduate but will definitely be on for graduate due to the fact that only graduates students really got to perform.
Environment was key for my D. I’ve seen many kids switching schools / coming back home in the 3 years my D has been in college because they didn’t like being where they were despite the great programs. My D’s college gets a lot of transfers. I figured all from community college. Nope. Lots from schools that didn’t work out.
Where is she most comfortable? Can she / has she spent some time at each outside of the audition day?
Ithaca would be small
and very nurturing, and McGill would be more of a global, international feel. Both terrific choices!! It really depends on the student. Would she potentially grow out of a small school that is mostly undergraduates? Would she feel too overwhelmed by a big school in a fast paced city??
I agree with @Music2023 that both would be great choices. To me they seem quite different. McGill is big, and right in the middle of a major city. Ithaca is much smaller (both the college and the town) even if Cornell is nearby. Montreal obviously is bilingual. Montreal is generally safer than most large US cities of the same size, but it is still a big city.
One minor difference: The drinking age in Montreal is 18. My impression is that this largely moves the drinking out of the dorms into restaurants and bars, where there are more people around and where there is music. This seems like a win to me. I have a daughter at a different university in Canada and she has not reported any difficulties with drunk students.
The music program at McGill is quite large. The music library is impressive. I know someone who graduated from there who says that it is academically quite challenging, and “you have to want to do it”. He loved it and did well there.
Is there any significant financial difference between the two? With a voice major, your D might be better off if she can graduate with no debt at all.
This is great advice! The only thing I’d add is, maybe give her a bit of time. My S is in the same position and has been quietly ruminating about it. He spoke with his teacher, who had one strong opinion, and reached out to both schools with a few questions. He’s getting a feel for it. Much as I’d like it to be OVER already, I’m trying to give him space to find his way. (Also why I am also spending so much time on CC!)
Those both sound like amazing choices, so there’s no bad outcome. Enjoy!
Indeed both fantastic opportunities. I have seen both schools & locations. Putting aside any differentiation on the VP education side which I have no insights into, I’d think you may want to think about the environment that your D will thrive in. Both very nice & pretty places but very different from each other.
Ithaca can get cold but still is a very outdoorsy place with the nature / lakes surrounding it.
Montreal gets real cold in the winter. Most people spend a lot of time indoors and underground using the tunnels that connect the core of the city. Very scenic city but some cabin fever might set in during the worst of the winter if your D grew up in a warmer locale.
Montreal is obviously going to be much more multi-cultural compared to Ithaca and your D will get a real shot at learning or perfecting the French language.
Good luck with the choice. Either way your D is a winner in my opinion with these choices. Wishing her a great future.
Thank you everyone!
I will check those videos out @TomSrOfBoston. We did attend the Open House there in October and then we also explored Montreal when we went back for her audition. She really, really loves it there. She has always wanted to be in a city, and at first she was looking at Boston and NYC. I think those might have been a little too big for her (especially NYC), but I do think she could handle Montreal because even though it has all of the positives of a big city, it definitely has a manageable feel.
I think she is leaning heavily toward McGill, but she is going next week for an overnight at Ithaca, just to be sure. We haven’t spent as much time there- just two day trips in to tour the campus and then back for audition day.
I think you’re both right, @dbandmom and @Music2023 - they really are quite different environments and it needs to be a good fit for her. I think she might feel constrained in a small town.
I really appreciate the first-hand account about a Canadian school- that makes total sense to me. And my impression about McGill has been that it is challenging academically- I think in that aspect I don’t have reservations because my daughter has always worked really hard throughout school. The financial difference is pretty substantial- but we’re still waiting on all of the details from Ithaca so we can compare them.
I think my only reservation was that it is out of the country. I’m thinking long-term for her, knowing that she will need a grad school and likely YAP’s throughout her undergrad (or after- I’m not sure exactly how that works???) I guess I was a little concerned about Canadian professors not having as many contacts in the US. Would that be a factor at all?
@akapiratequeen - It’s nice to know I’m not alone in trying to parent through these tough choices! You worded it so well- I think I struggle with stepping back and trusting her instincts. She’s a young senior- October birthday means she’ll start college at 17, but she really has a good head on her shoulders, so I need to start stepping back and following her lead. It’s just such a big choice that it’s hard!
Congrats to your son on his choices, too- this part of the journey is getting a little easier as they get closer to figuring it out!
And @HereWeGoAgain2018 - all of the reasons you just listed are the reasons she is drawn to McGill. She is not an outdoorsy kid- she would rather be inside reading, socializing, writing, or singing. She is multiracial, and she has grown up in a pretty non-diverse suburban school, so she really wants to spread her wings and explore the world (as much as possible while still in college). I think you’ve really helped me think this through. And thank you for your positive wishes!
@JustRachel2u - we are in your boat, sort of. Kid is trying to decide between McGill and Temple/Boyer School. Both are urban and actually remind me of each other in feel. Definitely ask about performance opportunities and how much effort the GE’s will take. We were told that Music Theory/Music History will kick S’ rear end - but he’s a great student (when motivated), so will probably be OK.
If I remember correctly from our tour almost 2 years ago, when they graduate from McGill they have an opportunity to gain Canadian citizenship (not sure if that’s still true or not) which gives them a wider pool of places to work afterwards - pretty much anywhere in the Commonwealth.
So lots of decision-making. We have to decide before 4/15 as that is McGill’s deadline (at least for us). Good luck! Maybe we will see you there.
@Lendlees you are right. Path to Canadian citizenship is much more clearer for a person who has studied and graduated from a college there. Their system is a points based scale where when you review your background against a set number questions you get a score which then tells you whether you have a shot at it or not. Graduating from a local school and having the so called “Canadian Experience” puts you in a very strong position. You still need to apply of course and go through the process. Also note getting a job in Canada is so much easier if you have a degree from a local school.
McGill will have graduate students. That will certainly impact “getting roles”, but not all roles are suitable for young voices. Having stage time in the opera chorus while still working on Art Song, Lieder, etc is more important than being a lead for most young singers.
While she may like a particular teacher, there is the possibility that things won’t work out - no space in that studio, teacher moves or dies (yes!), and your student might need to find another place within the department. Going to a school where there are several studios of interest is always a safe bet.
They are two good choices so there is probably no right or wrong, just different!
To me and for my S performance opportunities for undergraduates was something he asked about at every school he auditioned at. Schools with larger graduate or DMA programs are going to not be the best places for undergraduates that want to perform in the very top ensembles.
@TxSker For voice, I disagree that the DMA and MM students will necessarily exclude students from top ensembles. Definitely depends on the department, and worth asking about composition of select choirs and opera casts, but not a given. D attends a school with MM and DMA students, and many undergrads are talented enough to be selected to be in the top ensembles (which are stellar because the musicians are more advanced). Seniors are also competitive for main roles with the MM students in operas and it is not uncommon for sophomores to have smaller roles (where vocally appropriate). Also, having DMA conducting students increases the number of performance opportunities, as they need to find students to perform in their recitals, juries, concerts etc… D has made a lot of real world connections through knowing DMA and MM students, and gotten a few gigs as a result. I do not know specifically whether this is true of McGill, but just wanted to state that the generalization wasn’t necessarily true.
Grew up down the road from Ithaca and visited McGill with my family at or around New Years a few years ago (it was cold -just like Ithaca but underground corridors… are you kidding? that’s a game changer!) The educational opportunities at McGill the French immersion and the highly sought after music program are, to me, outstanding not to mention the location in the quaint city of Montreal. Ithaca has a stellar music school and the cutest town w/ Cornell nearby and my daughter met a VP student from our area at an accapella concert recently who teared up and said he will be tragically upset to graduate from Ithaca this spring ~but McGill is screaming out to me (and the only reason I am adding to this thread!) Oh yes, and the price point at McGill - phenomenal. Looking back on this ~ I don’t think your daughter can make a bad choice. Signed another vocal performance mom whose daughter will be starting (somewhere !) in the fall! I feel your pain… they lead and we follow! good luck
@songbirdmama - a different realm (jazz instrument), but S sees the same thing. DMAs mixed with MMs mixed with BMs. There is some stratifacation in placement, but only in a general way. Everything in your account rings true in S’s account.
