<p>How does a college know when you apply what socio-economic group you fall into? I see several colleges that say on their websites that they are looking for a diverse class and that they encourage students from many socio-economic groups to apply, I am assuming they are trying to encourage diversity on the lower end of the income scale (I suppose they could be trying to pull in upper end instead, in which case it doesnt matter) but how does a college know upon application where you fall in the income scale. I know when you file the FAFSA and/or Profile there are income questions on those forms. The last applications we filled out were Ds in 2006 and I dont remember her asking me questions about our finances during the application stage. But we didnt fill out those forms until after the applications went in. Unless things have changed, we didnt file for financial aid until applications went in, so how does a school know where you fall income-wise before then? Acceptance is granted first, correct? So a college can encourage low-income to apply, but how do they know, do they access to some other income information? </p>
<p>I see posters talking about need-blind and non-need-blind schools for admission and I understand what that means, that they consider your need for aid before they accept your or not, but how do they know until you file the FAFSA? Are these schools waiting to accept students until after those forms are filled? Daughter applied to both public and private schools in 2006, packages varied both for merit and need-based, but if I recall correctly (and I may not, that was so long ago), she received acceptances from all her schools before she received the aid letters. Now none where the highly select Ivy schools, but I don't recall a school asking for income information before they admitted her. So I must be missing something, but what?</p>
<p>Even need blind schools have some idea of a student’s socio-economic group from the high school and/or zip code where they child is from. </p>
<p>they can also sometimes tell from the student’s essays and the student’s ECs.</p>
<p>Diversity efforts at admission is probably mostly determined by ethnic group/race during the admissions process, and ethnic group/race is almost always indicated on the application. They can also look at things like your city, zip code, high school, race and make all kinds of inferences about income, and most of the time they would probably be right, if they even take the trouble to do this during the admissions process. </p>
<p>The actual financial aid someone receives is a big factor in whether one attends a college, so if the the school wants people from lower SES, they just offer them an attractive package after they get FAFSA and other types of data from accepted students. Getting a more diverse class probably has more to do with the financial aid process than the application process. Schools don’t expect everyone who is admitted to attend, and they can shape the likely social composition of their class with grants and other types of aid after analyzing the detailed financial data students submit as well as race, high school, etc.</p>
<p>Well, I wondered about the high school/zip code thing, but I wouldn’t think that would be very accurate, of course I’m just basing on our situation, but I know quite a few like us. Home zip, very rural, small town w/low performing HS (just manages to hit acceptable often enough to keep the state from stepping in, but that’s another story), so you’d think maybe mid-range income, but he attends a private prep school 45 minutes away in another town, so you’d think, mid to upper income, but he actually attends on a scholarship w/a disabled father, so reality, very low income. Throw an unusual ethnic sounding last name into the mix (first question we get, how to pronounce, second what heritage/race) but he’s white and I don’t see how a college could guess. He’s had experiences you’d associate with mid to upper and sadly also those that go with the other end of the bracket, so essays and EC’s are also not a necessarily a give away either. </p>
<p>He’ll need both need-based and merit aid and I’m just trying to help focus his list for both, as I see no point in applying to a school where there is just no money. He’s willing to consider a wider range of locations than his sister and I’m not nearly as familiar with OOS schools, plus a different major area and money is much tighter for colleges now as in 2007 when his sister applied. She received good packages w/both merit and need, but none of her schools will work for him. So the looking, just got me to wondering how a school knew before the forms were filed. You’re probably right, 90% of the time a general guess will be right.</p>
<p>You somewhat answered your own question. His applications etc. will have your home address and zip so they can get an idea of the town/surrounding area. They will also note that he went to a private high school. Admissions people are primarily marketing people and they will be able to put 2 and 2 together. The finaid paperwork just completes the picture. </p>
<p>There’s a sticky on the top of the page that has many, many posts regarding finding colleges that are known for good merit aid. You can start there and then come and ask specific questions.</p>
<p>With Google street view, having a look-see at an applicant’s house is just a click away for those applicants in areas which have been filmed. Probably not Scrib’s rural area, but lots of places are up now.</p>
<p>^^Oh, they’ve pretty much hit the rural areas too! Maybe not the birds eye view you get with Bing but yup haven’t found much “they” haven’t found.</p>
<p>I wondered about this a couple years back when my son was applying. He was also applying to an elite school that was ‘need blind’ and encouraged students from socio-economically underrepresented groups to apply.</p>
<p>We live in a town that has a disproportianate number of very affluent residents, a high achieving high public high school (no privates around here), and my son had a major EC that is usually saturated with very affluent kids and families.</p>
<p>But, we are Pell eligible, modest income, no assets except our partially paid, 60 yr old, 1000-sq ft house. We have one car, an 18 year old subcompact… you get the picture.</p>
<p>So how would the college know this kid from a well-to-do zipcode with a normally expensive EC was actually a “socio ec” applicant since, as a need blind school, admissions didn’t review his financial aid application?</p>
<p>I figured it was best to just tell them. One of my son’s recommendation letter writers included that information. We are not economically marginal enough to warrant my son writing an admissions essay about his “hardship” – because truly being of modest means is not a hardship compared to real hardships. But I did want that reference somewhere in his application because he is a kid from a very middle class economic bracket (AGI <60K).</p>
<p>Colleges do not pay that much attention to economic situations unless they are very severe or very well to do. If development comes to admissions and lets them know that a kid is on the possible list or current list for big bucks, it certainly does make a difference. If the essays, or the counselor’s references tell a story of a family/student who has undergone great hardship, they will take that into account. Though they can have an idea about the economic background from addresses, schools, activities, and essays, they have to be outright told for economics, challenges, first to go to college in family, URM to have those factors have the “hook” impact. There are kids who are from very poor families going to top schools. In NYC, the way public high school selection works, you really cannot tell who has resources and who does not. This is something that the counselor needs to convey to the college. FOr kids who have truly had challenging issues, a social worker, pastor, counselor, someone who is aware of the travails should include a letter. They do not automatically know.</p>
<p>For those kids who are in special programs like Questbridge, Prep for Prep, ABC, it is clear that they have some consideration coming, and those programs usually do include some letter for the college packets.</p>
<p>The schools are not going to try to guess your income bracket or URM status. They need to be told outright for them to take the situation into consideration. IF there is no letter spelling such things out but enough signs in the app to make an adcom think there is such a factor involved, in the schools where the apps are carefully examined, a phone call to the counselor may take place.</p>
<p>A reason why the select private prep schools do so well in placing their kids is that they make it their business to know all about their kids and include any information that may be helpful in getting them consideration, in the college recs. My friend who has had a really rough time these past few years is ever so grateful for her D’s school, which is an elite private school that she attends on full scholarship, for going into great detail about the family situation to help her D in terms of admissions and financial aid. Her other two kids at the public school hardly knew their counselors and they did not have any interest in such situations. Not to say all public school counselors are that way, but the prep schools make this a priority.</p>
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<p>Writing recommendation letter is indeed an art. I was told by a principal of a small but very prestigious school that has a very good track record of placement that she spends at least a couple of hours at the beginning of the year with every senior student and their parents understanding their situation. She creates a list of talking points and focus areas, creates a general theme and therefore can tailor each recommendation based on the knowledge of the college that the student is applying, the student and specifics of the situation. </p>
<p>On the other hand, in my S’s large public schools, the counselors have generic template they cut and paste, except in some very specific cases, where they are encouraged to spend some time. The HS wants to provide individualized attention but due to lack of staff and sheer numbers, it is not possible.</p>
<p>Scribbulus,</p>
<p>Don’t know what kind of colleges your S is interested in, but the fact that he’s a male can be a (small) positive factor at some LACs. In general LACs are worried about gender balance when their student body starts to approach 60% female. Certainly, my S had an easier time in getting merit money this year (2009-10) than my daughter did back in the 2005-06 admissions cycle. D’s test scores were higher than S’s, but S’s gpa was a bit better.</p>