<p>
</p>
<p>It is true. Most colleges do not care about whether or not you can afford to go there. There are thousands of schools in this country and only a few dozen which meet full need. If a college does not promise to meet full need, there is really no reason to know your financial situation. They don’t care. (Obviously there are exceptions but I’m speaking in general)</p>
<p>@Brownparent: The single most important piece of information to the colleges is the school report – which is stats driven and not dependent on the quality/experience of the guidance counselor staff. It contains the following:</p>
<p>1) info on the curriculum of the school (no APs? a few honors courses?)
2) % of students eligible for free/reduced lunch: the clearest indicator of the avg income of students
3) % of graduating students who attend 2 or 4 year colleges
4) % students who graduate the HS in 4 years (I think)</p>
<p>Needless to say, pressed schools’ information will be vastly different than well-resourced suburban schools. College admissions officers will be able to infer much from this GC submitted report.</p>
<p>He could try to incorporate it into an essay without the essay being about his family situation. Avoid “woe is me” essays. Perhaps something about his mom, who never attended college, helping him with his homework and reading his English essays. His dad taking him to the construction sites and having the guys talk about the opportunities they wish they had.</p>
<p>“If a college does not promise to meet full need, there is really no reason to know your financial situation. They don’t care.”</p>
<p>Ever heard of need-based merit scholarships? The school wants to admit the best of the kids who come from families of limited means. Many schools also strive for socioeconomic diversity, to the extent that they can afford it; they admit many students from very humble backgrounds. Some schools also actively recruit first-generation college graduates. </p>
<p>Many schools are not need-blind but do have slots open for those kids. They might be able to take a hundred of them, not the 300 they would want to take, but that hardly means that they don’t care about SES.</p>
<p>I would have his GC mention his financial obstacles and how accomplished he is in the face of those obstacles. If he/she is willing, I believe that the GC can retract the original recommendation and resubmit a new one that mentions his financial situation. </p>
<p>Our family experienced a horrible situation in the summer after my son’s freshman year. This situation bled into his sophomore and junior year and will always be with my son. My son did not want to address this in an essay, but his GC mentioned it in his report. I wasn’t in the room when it was written, but I believe it was a very matter-of-fact statement about the situation itself and how impressive my son’s accomplishments were in the face of such a situation. My son also didn’t want to portray a ‘woe is me’ attitude because he doesn’t have that attitude. However, many children when faced with the situation that he faced, heck most adults also, would not have accomplished what he did. The student’s financial situation is definitely something that warrants mentioning somewhere.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We’ll have to agree to disagree, romani. See, most of the private colleges I know about care a lot about something called “yield.” Having a high one makes a school look good. So, if a school knows that a student applicant doesn’t have the $ to attend and ALSO knows that the school is not going to give him enough $ to attend, then it simply doesn’t admit him. If it does admit him and then he doesn’t enroll, it hurts the college yield. If this happens to hundreds of applicants the yield is lowered enough that it affects the school’s ranking.</p>
<p>My own alma mater is now need blind and meets 100% of need. For a period of time, though, it didn’t. It made a public announcement that it would not admit anyone and “gap” them, i.e., admit them without giving them sufficient fin aid. Lots of schools have the same policy.</p>
<p>Another reason–if you admit a kid and don’t give him enough $ to attend, the odds are high that you’re going to get a phone call from someone trying to wheedle the college into giving more money. Again, if a college knows that the gap between need and aid is HUGE, it won’t admit these kids because it would just as soon not have the fin aid department spend hundreds of hours arguing with advocates for kids who need a lot more $ than the college is ever going to give them. IME, this is especially true at LACs with small staffs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Probably not the answer you are seeking, but the answer is pretty simple. You do NOT have to “show” directly. Being from a low-income family is NOT that relevant in applications, and one does not get a brownie for being poor – and this despite all the blah-blah about it. If you care about statistics, google the Carnevale reports. </p>
<p>If being poor by itself does not matter in applications, other elements play a role. And those are all in the class of overcoming adversity and doing better than your peers. As an example, a kid that is dirt poor but attends Choate on a scholarship does not get a brownie! A kid that overcomes his environment and emerges as an academic or athletic star does. </p>
<p>Fwiw, adcoms are rarely oblivious to the environment of the students. They understand the different circumstances of students applying from Malibu High versus East LA, or between Marin and Compton. They have the school profile. They have the list of EC and sports. And they have the little box that intimates one will apply for financial aid. One way or the other, they will figure out the financial picture of a family. Of course, if a low-income writes about how he helped rebuild a school in Bolivia or Nepal, one will wonder where the funds came from. This part can be described in an essay or a supplement, if it is more than one of those glorified tours that masquerade as helping poor foreign kids. </p>
<p>As a last note, one needs to realize that economic diversity sought by schools is a WIP. The statistics clearly show that the schools have done a much better job in meeting their racial distribution objectives (with notable exceptions) than they have done with economic diversity. It is not entirely their fault; but that is the way the numbers work out. </p>
<p>In so many words, the application (with or without mention of the income) has to warrant an admission. It will NOT make much difference in the final outcome. </p>
<p>PS Despite all the above, participating in great programs such as Posse or Questbridge makes a difference. This, however, stems from the extended application process and the chances to present a better application. The screening process removes the need to “demonstrate” low-income. Same for how the Gates Millennium used to be. So, perhaps, the answer to your question might have been that you show low-income by applying (and obtaining) one of the dedicated low-income scholarships.</p>
<p>Brown Parent,
I am a single mom, no money for anything but basics, with a high achieving kid. The highest in her school. She had a very specific topic she wanted to write about and it was great, but had nothing to do with our financial circumstances. I made sure her GC, who knew her very well, also knew a bit about me before she wrote her report. I’m so glad I did. She had no idea I was a true single mom for her entire life. She also was surprised I never went to college. My daughter had the stuff to get into the big schools on her own record, but I think our family situation mattered. No one from our town had gotten into Harvard in more than 50 years, and she’s a senior there now. She also got into a need-aware school (Reed) with a full package. One never knows the reason for acceptances, I guess, but my advice from experience is to make sure his school knows your story and tells it.</p>
<p>Excellent Xiggi! The finances are irrelevant for admissions. There is no reason for any student to supplant others in getting accepted based on finances. The poor student is no more or less deserving than the one who has less dire straits. There are too many students for the limited number of spaces at the most elite schools. There are many other choices for all top students- National Merit Finalists, for example, can be found at at least a hundred appropriate schools.</p>
<p>As to overcoming adversity- mtgoat did it right. Get the guidance counselor involved.</p>
<p>NM --I didn’t realize he is a Questbridge finalist, he just decided not to match, so that will indicate low income. And they will have the QB application that asks more detailed questions about his life. So he can make his CA essay on something different.</p>
<p>So if colleges are interested in diversity of background it is there. Obviously this is of interest to them or they wouldn’t participate in QB.</p>
<p>BrownParent-
I think you pose a very good question and am surprised others seem to disagree. I have read repeated articles lately about colleges actively seeking low income students-it seems that it is becoming a “hook”. How DO they know though?
As far as the zip code or the school district, that may be true in some areas, but not where I live. Our zip code covers a vast geographic area and encompasses all income levels. Also, our school district is not highly regarded and has a low median income. However it is the ONLY school in the zip code, with no private options, so once again as much as it might shock some, Drs. children are educated in the same classrooms as those from the trailer park or public housing. Imagine that! Also a couple of other myths from this board-that poverty is only in urban areas, and that only minorities are poor…</p>
<p>Planner, you’re right, and that’s where a GC or someone similar comes in (I know that my Spanish teacher addressed my background in her rec letters because I didn’t bring them up in my essays and you wouldn’t know it by my ethnicity or zip code, stereotypically). I actually lived in a zip code that is upper-middle income and a pretty diverse high school. </p>
<p>However, it works more often than not and it’s a method that some use.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Being low income, is not now or has ever been a “hook”. It can be a tip factor, when coupled with other things. T26E4 in post 22 and Xiggi in post 27 both give excellent overviews. </p>
<p>Xiggi makes an excellent point that the low income student at Choate/Dalton/Name your prep school on full scholarship/through the ABC program/Prep for Prep or the low income student who attends Stuyvesant is not going to be viewed the same way as the low income student who rises to the top while attending the underperforming school with a low grad rate, holding down a job to help support the family.</p>
<p>Zip code in and of it self is not always telling because someone can live in a swanky zip code and be the super/ live in help or the maintenance person in the building, or living there as part of the affordable housing initiatives where in some newer buildings, a certain # of apartments must be allocated as affordable housing. </p>
<p>in NYC, there are no zoned high schools in Manhattan and very few zoned high schools in the other 4 boroughs (although some schools give priority to students living in certain school districts). If the high school does not have a formal school profile, the GC or administrator and put the school’s profile in the common app or SendEDU (if the college uses this as a way of collecting transcripts/ rec letters and school reports).</p>
<p>In addition, many GC’s will write about the students family and and home environment, in the recommendation letter.</p>
<p>A funny true story that happened a long time ago.</p>
<p>My neighborhood is very diverse–even by NYC standards. We have a wonderful nursery school and the kids are very diverse…more so than most college campuses.</p>
<p>There were two kids who were freshmen at a college in the AWS group. One was an African-American woman. She was a graduate of a top boarding school, thanks to Prep for Prep. During boarding school, she’d portrayed herself as a kid from the ghetto from a family that was dirt poor. She claimed to have grown up in a public housing project. Other kid was white and gave off “trust fund baby” vibes.</p>
<p>They ended up being in one class together. Trust fund baby type said in front of many of the kids in the class, " I recognize your name (which was unusual) and I’m sure we’ve met, but I can’t remember where. African -American Prep for Prep kid said “did you go to x boarding school?” He said "no. " She said that if he didn’t, it’s highly unlikely they’ve ever met. Half the class thought “trust fund white guy” was trying to pick up very pretty African-American girl.</p>
<p>Next class…he walked in and said “I KNEW I recognized your name!!! I asked my mom and she said we were in the same nursery school class!” </p>
<p>It shot her rep for growing up in a tough neighborhood. (That was not entirely fair because she did grow up in Section 8 housing. However, that Section 8 housing is in an economically diverse neighborhood.)</p>
<p>They live in the same zip code.</p>
<p>Xiggi, All three of the programs you mentioned-- Gates, Questbridge and Posse-- have extensive application processes. Posse and Questbridge are bit more limited in that the school has to participate (although there are a LOT of top schools participating in Questbridge) and Posse students must live in or near one of the cities. However, unlike Gates and Questbridge, Posse does not require applicants to be low-income. I know upper-middle class minority kids who have participated in Posse and, in fact, that’s a criticism of the program.</p>
<p>Posse also does not require participants to be minorities. Remember it is a leadership program, not a low income, minority or whoever has the highest gpa program.</p>
<p>Sybbie, that is correct but I wasn’t going to go off that tangent. Posse also has a special initiative for veterans— again, interesting but not really addressing the matter at hand. My point was that Xiggi wrote that he believed that applying to these programs showed that a student was low-income and Posse does not fit that criteria. (What I wrote was that I know upper-middle class minority kids who’ve participated in Posse. It is a leadership program but writes that it wants diversity and it defines it like this, “Posse’s definition of diversity is not just about cultural, ethnic or racial diversity, it includes economic, academic, religious, political and geographic diversity.” The geographic diversity is interesting since it has traditionally required students to be from a certain place to match up with certain schools, so it doesn’t mean geographic diversity in the way we often use the term here on cc-- a kid from Wyoming.)</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>While your additional comments are indeed correct, please note that they did not exactly refer to what I wrote. I mentioned that participating in those programs was helpful for the extended applications. You are correct that Posse does not exclude wealthy people, but the program does not exclude low-income neither. In addition they tend to recruit from urban areas, and urban areas can have high densities of low income students.</p>
<p>HTH</p>
<p>They actually did refer to what you wrote, you called them “dedicated low-income scholarships.” 
But, to be clear, Posse does count low-income as being a category of diversity and they only take students from <em>public</em> schools so there are probably plenty of low-income students; it’s just not a clear signal. And the reason I’m clarifying is not to correct you or to take people off on this tangent; it’s because all three of these scholarships are excellent opportunities (one of my kids won one of them) and there are a lot of people who are confused about what role income and race play in applying to them. So I try to clear up any misconceptions if I see them, lest someone read the comment and know of a kid who could benefit. Posse does want diversity but defines it rather broadly. :)</p>
<p>Actually, I know what I wrote and what I did … not. If we want to be technical, we could debate the differences between a scholarship and a PROGRAM that links to college scholarships. </p>
<p>I invite you to read my post again with the caveat that my last line does NOT describe QB or Posse in particular. It is a separate and concluding thought that hinted towards dedicated scholarships in general, and not only to the programs I mentioned. </p>
<br>
<br>