<p>Teenagers make mistakes. What’s important is what did they learn from the mistake and was it repeated? One mistake of this nature should not derail any kid’s future in my opinion.</p>
<p>BUT–also its my opinion that there is little difference between being on the receiving or giving side of cheating. Both knew it was wrong. Neither kid was more or less guilty. It isn’t that one is the “generous, smarter” kid and should be forgiven differently than the “dumber, taking” kid. Wrong is wrong. There shouldnt be a different standard for one kid in this scenario over the other, in my opinion.</p>
<p>But also–I lead with my first paragraph for a reason. I dont think a single mistake should define his college chances. They are teenagers for goodness sake…and teenagers (and adults) make mistakes.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the suggestions and discussions.</p>
<p>Last meeting with GC was only about if Yes would be checked or not. We were not ready to discuss the application strategy with her.</p>
<p>My son has requested another meeting with GC to discuss the application strategy with Yes checked. We will show her more material to support what we (student and parents) learned from the mistake, and then ask her may explain the case in her report.</p>
<p>On common app, when Yes is checked, applicant can upload a document to explain the case. We will take your suggestions to sincerely admit the wrong-doing and focus on what he has learned from it.</p>
<p>I will update here after the meeting.</p>
<p>I also hope adcoms in the top schools don’t simply put the application in the reject pile when they see the Yes box is checked. (I also understand they just need an excuse/reason to reject 94% of the applications.)</p>
<p>^^^ You would be surprised at how many “Yes” boxes get checked. Don’t worry.</p>
<p>It matters whether the student was on the giving or receiving end because it puts in question the student’s academic record if he was the one who benefitted. You usually aren’t caught your first time…</p>
<p>OK I can understand it putting the ‘receivers’ record in question because they aren’t usually caught the first time. But are the givers more likely to be caught the first time? I doubt it. And then wouldnt it also put the ‘givers’ record for honesty/integrity in question too for the same reason? Sorry this logic still doesnt work for me. But again–they are kids, cut the slack, and it better not happen again, giver or taker.</p>
<p>Agree that it’s a good idea to take this up the ladder, since the record was cleared.
In case you need it, this is from The Ivy Coach, dated 2008- </p>
<p>*For students who must answer “yes” to the first discipline question, it may be somewhat reassuring to know that most admissions counselors believe that a one-time indiscretion in which the student has shown remorse and has learned from the transgression is not necessarily going to jeopardize that student’s chances of admission. </p>
<p>That is why it is in the student’s best interest to write a letter that explains the nature of the incident, the disciplinary action that was taken, and what was learned from the experience. It is most important that in this letter the student admits the error, and has accepted whatever punishment the school has imposed. </p>
<p>While a disciplinary blemish on an applicant’s record is always significant, obviously some offenses are more serious than others. The act of a student who has been caught drinking at a school function is not going to be considered as egregious as the act of a student who has cheated on an exam or has brought a weapon to school. For the most part, an incident of academic dishonesty or an incident of violence would be much more scrupulously examined before a favorable admissions decision would be rendered.</p>
<p>Admissions counselors are aware that we all make errors in judgment. Upon reading a student’s letter, an admissions counselor will more likely accept an applicant who has demonstrated how he or she has learned from the mistake, than to accept an applicant who is argumentative and has not taken responsibility for the transgression.*</p>
<p>Write a mature explanation. I believe this would go in the Addl Info section. As serious as I think this is, I think a 10th grade violation is well past. It will help if the GC and teachers can note his subsequent integrity and other strong qualities.</p>
<p>If I had given info to a fellow student out of the kindness of my heart for no personal gain, I would be hard put to crawl for the benefit of authority figures. What would I have “learned” from it? That it is not smart to give in to generous impulses but better to watch my own behind. Nothing to do with “integrity” IMHO. Obviously, I am in the minority, and obviously a competitive system depends on people not helping each other. But then I tend to regard grading in general with a jaundiced eye.</p>
<p>Like Consolation, I am not horrified about the nature of this indiscretion. It is asking a lot for a 10th grader to resist the peer pressure to help his friends. I would think most teachers know this can happen, but probably understand that it will not help someone if it is an essay test or you have to show your work. Anyway, most kids probably don’t remember many of the answers on a test, so I doubt it would help very much if you’re not prepared.</p>
<p>Do not check the box. Your son signed a statement as a minor without the advice of counsel or a guardian present. If your high school in any ways passes on information other than a standard transcript with GPA and classes then contact your attorney. </p>
<p>I personally believe that you would have a case under FERPA, however I am not an attorney and have no idea what state yall are in. I would look under the headings of Liability and Student Records if this developed into a brawl with you and your sons high school so that you can talk to your lawyer more knowledgeable. The following are some cases I used when putting together a mock trial on this topic hope they are bennificial:</p>
<p>Interesting. Ferpa raises its head again. Direct from the govt:
*•Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student’s education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):</p>
<p>◦School officials with legitimate educational interest;*<br>
It goes on from there. That’s “without consent.”</p>
<p>Yikes - raising this to the level of a lawsuit. Can’t think of anything that would make a student less attractive to a school than a strong whiff of litigiousness. Most likely the counselor’s recs are confidential and the last thing you want to do is sour her on your son’s character by pulling out a Howitzer (the threat of legal action) at a meeting.</p>
<p>If you do research the topic of lawsuits and admissions, you’ll find news articles (it makes for a great story) but not much success. And try this on for size: in a sea of lookalike applications, your son’s might stick in the mind of an admissions person precisely because he had this little blip on his record.</p>
<p>The advice holds: no one is a shoe-in at any top school, apply to a variety of schools, any of which he’d be happy to attend, and you win the game.</p>
<p>The case cited - lower school, behavioral issue and failure of school to respond appropriately. And, wiki? I think the outrage that could stew here is far worse than how adcoms will look at a 10th grade issue, if handled right. Adcoms are pretty savvy.</p>
<p>Btw, the kindness and peer pressure excuses won’t cut it.</p>
<p>I didn’t say peer pressure excuses justify what happened, but, in my mind, it helps put things into proper perspective. A sixteen year old was trying to help his friends. If you don’t think this happens all the time, you’re being naive. This case is unusual because most kids never get caught doing this type of thing. Let me ask this question for all the readers of this thread: Have you ever cheated in school? If you can say that you have not cheated even one time in your entire school career; well, then maybe you earned the right to castigate this kid.</p>
<p>The issue isn’t us. It’s how adcoms will react. OP feels his son, otherwise, would have a shot at a top school. I ran into an issue with this question once- but the problem was that the kid checked “No” and the GC checked “Yes” and detailed the disciplinary action. Not good. It was an ignorable infraction, but the discrepancy on the CA mattered. IIRC, the kid was borderline anyway. But, OP is right to try to ensure both parties are on the same page.</p>
<p>I think you should have another talk with the GC, and the principal if necessary, on whether the answer is really “yes” or “no.” Here’s the language from the Common App:
From the OP’s description, I’m not at all sure that this infraction “resulted in a disciplinary action.” It seems there was no penalty at all, not even a suspension. At the least, the GC should explain that there was no sanction and that the record was expunged by the high school.</p>
<p>^^ Fortunately, the majority of admissions people don’t feel that way. There is a huge difference between an incident like this that happened in 10th grade, and bringing a knife to school for a fight senior year. Maybe the vast majority of applicants don’t have to check the box yes, but there are a lot of interesting kids who might have grown up a lot as a result of a “check the box” incident. I am the parent of one of them and he is now an Ivy grad.</p>
<p>"he kid GAVE information to another student, he didn’t seek to benefit himself. To me, that makes a big difference. I do not equate this with a kid who tries to better his own score. "</p>
<p>It is different. But I don’t assume it is without personal gain. Kids give information to each other to make friends, to gain popularity, to appear cool, to go along with the crowd, any number of reasons, all of which at least seem, to the giver, to be of benefit to himself.</p>